Mormons and decendants of Cain

[Techbot]

I've recently been struggling with a question in my mind after reading through some Mormon posts in here. One person cited from the old book of Mormon that they believe that blacks are decendants of Cain. This wasn't news to me as a friend of mine did a college term paper on Mormonism and I read it there. My question is, WHY?

 

[SonWorshipper]

Noah was a descendant of Seth, ( Adam and Eve, Third son, the one to replace Abel) therefore how can there be anyone descended from any other than, Japheth, Shem or Ham, ( the sons of Noah and only other survivors in the ark) whose offspring went southward and settled in what is now the african continent. Egypt is ancient Mizraim, , a son of Ham.

Now the confusion could come from the fact that Ham also had a son named Canaan. From whence the Cananites come from. But this is not Abel's brother, but a grandson of Noah.

 

[SonWorshipper]

You mention the "Old Book of Mormon" does this mean that there is a rewritten version? or Revised one?

 

[Anthony]

Why?

Because the Mormon Religion was invented at a time before the Civil War, and they like many preachers today created good and bad doctrine to explain something in or out of their belief system.

The whole black cain thing was to explain their beliefs on the races.

Mormons believe that your skin color is determined before you come to earth. In fact the better you were in your pre-existance on earth the whiter your skin. This of course is no longer polictically correct, and like a lot of other things in the Mormon religion is changed to suit their current standards.

Just like having more than one wife, they still believe it is acceptable, but simply changed it to comform.

 

[Techbot]

Mormons believe that your skin color is determined before you come to earth. In fact the better you were in your pre-existance on earth the whiter your skin. This of course is no longer polictically correct, and like a lot of other things in the Mormon religion is changed to suit their current standards.

No joke? So if you were bad in your pre-existence you got sent to earth with black skin??? That's messed up! No wonder they change their stuff so often!

 

[Templer]

So what? Are they saying that black people originated from being evil. You know I also once read that some imbasils thought that, I think it was abraham or someone who burnt a offering to God and The lord rejected it and all the smoke from the alter blew back upon the man, and therfore made his skin black. [Edited by a moderator] If you would like to be real about it. There are indians and hendews that are blacker then black people. So why are their skin color so dark? I have heard that being that all the old testament events were in Eygpt. Moses had to be black. Afterall, Eygpt is in Africa right? I think every answer that man has to give is created up in his own mind. When I think about it. There are alot of black people, aficans who look like dark skinned Jews to me. If their skin was more lighter or so, u couldnt tell them apart from some arabs or middle eastern. But where did Asians come from? Their eyes, facial features are totally different from anyone else on earth.

 

[tulc]

Weren't all of Cain's children killed in the flood?
tulc

 

[Techbot]

Weren't all of Cain's children killed in the flood?
tulc

Yes, they should have been. Wonder where they get that doctrine from then??

 

[ByGrace]

The mormons know nothing of scripture and the founders even less. They took simple little ideas and made them into doctrine. Joe smith was completely ignorant of the sources he was using to steal his ideas from. Therefore he used this little cain thing to justify his making the Native Americans a lost people with skin that had been darkened by their sin. Funny thing is though, he said that if a Native American would embrace the "restored gospel" the curse would be lifted from their skin. Kinda funny.

 

[Plan 9]

I've recently been struggling with a question in my mind after reading through some Mormon posts in here. One person cited from the old book of Mormon that they believe that blacks are decendants of Cain. This wasn't news to me as a friend of mine did a college term paper on Mormonism and I read it there. My question is, WHY?

Many Christian ministers who were Southerners taught this in a slightly different form as justification for slavery prior to and during the War between the States and I heard a sermon as late as the 1700s promoting this doctrine. None of these ministers used the the Book of Mormon; they used the story of Ham and Caanan from the Old Testament.

Btw, this is no longer Mormon doctrone and I think we would do well to drop it ourselves.

 

[Techbot]

Many Christian ministers who were Southerners taught this in a slightly different form as justification for slavery prior to and during the War between the States and I heard a sermon as late as the 1700s promoting this doctrine. None of these ministers used the the Book of Mormon; they used the story of Ham and Caanan from the Old Testament.

Btw, this is no longer Mormon doctrone and I think we would do well to drop it ourselves.

I had just seen a thread where a poster had some articles from Mormon sources. I was curiuos as to how this would have come about, and more importantly, why. Did they exclude all African decendants from the church?

 

[Plan 9]

I had just seen a thread where a poster had some articles from Mormon sources. I was curiuos as to how this would have come about, and more importantly, why. Did they exclude all African decendants from the church?

I'm not a Mormon, so I'm no expert; please keep this in mind.
My understanding is that at one time African decended men could not participate in all the rites of the church, but that was changed many years ago. At no time where they excluded from the church, anymore than Christian churches always excluded slaves.
What the two once had in common was that Blacks were second class members.

 

[galatians2:20]

Btw, this is no longer Mormon doctrone and I think we would do well to drop it ourselves.

I don't think the subject should be dropped until the Mormon religion repents of their insults and treatment of blacks by J. Smith and B. Young, etc. These guys were supposed to be the mouthpieces of God; infallible even. How could they be so prejudiced, never repent of it or apologise, but simply make the priesthood available to blacks in 1978 and call it even?

 

[Plan 9]

I don't think the subject should be dropped until the Mormon religion repents of their insults and treatment of blacks by J. Smith and B. Young, etc. These guys were supposed to be the mouthpieces of God; infallible even. How could they be so prejudiced, never repent of it or apologise, but simply make the priesthood available to blacks in 1978 and call it even?

If most Southern churches ever formally repented, I'm not aware of it. It split my denomination and many of our Black members felt betrayed and started their own denominations. Mine not only did some form of repentance, but has tried to get them to come back. I don't know how public it was, because this was much longer ago.

I'm sorry to say that the CLDS may still be a bit ahead of some of us in even doing that.
We should all be terribly ashamed and I know I am, even though neither my family nor mayself had any part in it. Perhaps that's not sensible, but I do feel it just the same. ;(

 

[Plan 9]

I don't think the subject should be dropped until the Mormon religion repents of their insults and treatment of blacks by J. Smith and B. Young, etc. These guys were supposed to be the mouthpieces of God; infallible even. How could they be so prejudiced, never repent of it or apologise, but simply make the priesthood available to blacks in 1978 and call it even?

I'm sorry; my post wasn't clear enough. I didn't mean drop the subject, I meant drop the practice of teaching this false doctrine.

 

[Techbot]

I don't think the subject should be dropped until the Mormon religion repents of their insults and treatment of blacks by J. Smith and B. Young, etc. These guys were supposed to be the mouthpieces of God; infallible even. How could they be so prejudiced, never repent of it or apologise, but simply make the priesthood available to blacks in 1978 and call it even?

That's where the sticky part comes in...how does a whole religion "repent" of their insults?? Surely the 15yr old Mormon down the street had nothing to do with J. Smith and B. Young?? How are they to repent? I'm skirting the edge of a bashing here, but isn't this similar to the modern day dilemma of African Americans telling me I owe them an apology for all their years of slavery? I personally never owned one. The people telling me this were never slaves themselves, so what do I owe?

I believe it was a bad part of our history. A history that we can all look back on and learn from, but not one that people should try to go and gain monetary value from. The suing, courts and whatnot that's going on is ridiculous.

 

[Plan 9]

That's where the sticky part comes in...how does a whole religion "repent" of their insults?? Surely the 15yr old Mormon down the street had nothing to do with J. Smith and B. Young?? How are they to repent? I'm skirting the edge of a bashing here, but isn't this similar to the modern day dilemma of African Americans telling me I owe them an apology for all their years of slavery? I personally never owned one. The people telling me this were never slaves themselves, so what do I owe?

I believe it was a bad part of our history. A history that we can all look back on and learn from, but not one that people should try to go and gain monetary value from. The suing, courts and whatnot that's going on is ridiculous.

I think the important thing is to eliminate the prejudice which exists now, and I'm embarrassed to say that, although it's no long taught by the Methodist Episcopal Church South (which no longer exists) or by the CLDS, I have a bad feeling that not every church has stopped teaching it.

No, the people who were robbed of their cultural heritage and are often treated as lower class citizens can't get their reparation from the people who did this to them, but Black people are often still treated very badly in the area in which I live and a member here stated on another thread that he's sick of being told to go back to Africa, a place he's never seen. People often overreact because of their hurt and rage over just this sort of treatment.

 

[tulc]

Plan 9 wrote: (#10)
"I heard a sermon as late as the 1700s"

Umm, how old ARE you Plan 9?

tulc(just curious)

 

[Techbot]

a member here stated on another thread that he's sick of being told to go back to Africa, a place he's never seen. People often overreact because of their hurt and rage over just this sort of treatment.

?? Oh man!! THAT'S the kind of thing that will keep everyone fighting and bickering. On the flip side of that, you have people like the woman my wife works with. My wife is a secretary at a large chemical refinery. She's over 4 labs there. One of the secretarys at a lab wasn't doing what she was supposed to, so my wife said something to her. The womans response? "You just don't like me because I'm black!" My wife was like "What the #$% are you talking about? You're not doing your work! It has nothing to do with your color!!" Sad as it may be, I've run into that same problem when I was managing a chain drug store here in town.

 

[Techbot]

Plan 9 wrote: (#10)
"I heard a sermon as late as the 1700s"

Umm, how old ARE you Plan 9?

tulc(just curious)

Androids like a VERY long life