LDS Mormonism and Non-Mormons

[Jamesone5]

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13
Nephi sees in vision the church of the devil set up among the Gentiles, the discovery and colonizing of America, the loss of many plain and precious parts of the Bible, the resultant state of gentile apostasy, the restoration of the gospel, the coming forth of latter-day scripture, and the building up of Zion. About 600–592 B.C.
1 Nephi 13

1 Nephi 14
An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The Saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The Apostle John will write concerning the end of the world. About 600–592 B.C.

9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.

Who is the Lamb of God according to Mormons?

In the premortal councils of heaven, God had promised Adam and Eve (and all the rest of us) that help would come from His pure, unblemished Firstborn Son, the Lamb of God “slain from the foundation of the world,”5 as the Apostle John would later describe Him.
Behold the Lamb of God

Doctrine and Covenants 1
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, on November 1, 1831, during a special conference of elders of the Church, held at Hiram, Ohio...

1–7, The voice of warning is to all people; 8–16, Apostasy and wickedness precede the Second Coming; 17–23, Joseph Smith is called to restore to earth the Lord’s truths and powers; 24–33, The Book of Mormon is brought forth and the true Church is established; 34–36, Peace will be taken from the earth; 37–39, Search these commandments.

29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.

30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually
Doctrine and Covenants 1




Galatians 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.




Matthew 24
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many



Calling it a red herring is simply your prejudicial false statement.



I inserted the word Mormon in brackets to clarify the meaning for non-Mormons.

"If the original material includes a noun or pronoun that is unclear, brackets can be used for clarification."
From Brackets | The Punctuation Guide



Some people see the connection. You don't.

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.

i have heard there is a verse in the BoM that condemns all other churches as "church of the devil" and here you have provided it. What is the exact reference number for this particular verse?
Excellent research!

 

[Goodhuman]

How can dead repent, when their time is gone?

 

[He is the way]

How can dead repent, when their time is gone?

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:6)

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

[mmksparbud]

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:6)

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged

according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

We are dead when in sin---alive when our sins are covered by Jesus.


Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[Ironhold]

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.

i have heard there is a verse in the BoM that condemns all other churches as "church of the devil" and here you have provided it. What is the exact reference number for this particular verse?
Excellent research!

Actual current-day church theology is "no one organized religion can be ascribed as one or the other; rather, it refers to whether or not people are living their lives in such a fashion as to be following God or Satan."

Anything from prior generations has to be understood through the lens of "even to this day there are people in mainstream Christianity who hate us so much that they want to kill us". The church was struggling for its very existence through the early 1900s due to mob violence and governmental persecution, and that kind of thing tends to turn one apocalyptic in thinking.

 

[He is the way]

We are dead when in sin---alive when our sins are covered by Jesus.


Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 3:18 - 20)

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

[mmksparbud]

(New Testament | 1 Peter 3:18 - 20)

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

We've gone over and over this, passage. I grow weary of the constant repetition.

 

[Jamesone5]

Actual current-day church theology is "no one organized religion can be ascribed as one or the other; rather, it refers to whether or not people are living their lives in such a fashion as to be following God or Satan."

Anything from prior generations has to be understood through the lens of "even to this day there are people in mainstream Christianity who hate us so much that they want to kill us". The church was struggling for its very existence through the early 1900s due to mob violence and governmental persecution, and that kind of thing tends to turn one apocalyptic in thinking.

And you have always [since the 1800's] condemned us to hell in the so-called "church of the devil".
What? you do not believe your own BoM?

Current-day church theology? I though Joseph Smith wrote the most correct book on the face of the earth. Your present prophets obviously don't believe what Joseph wrote.

What a Religion!

 

[He is the way]

And you have always [since the 1800's] condemned us to hell in the so-called "church of the devil".
What? you do not believe your own BoM?

We don't condemn anyone, there are only two churches the wheat is mixed with the tares in every denomination. There is only wheat and tares:

(New Testament | Matthew 13:25 - 30)

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 

[Rescued One]

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.

i have heard there is a verse in the BoM that condemns all other churches as "church of the devil" and here you have provided it. What is the exact reference number for this particular verse?
Excellent research!

Lesson 15: 1 Nephi 14

1 Nephi 14 concludes the account of Nephi’s vision. In this part of the vision, Nephi was told of the blessings promised to those who repent and hearken unto the Lord and the consequences that will come upon the wicked who harden their hearts against the Lord. Nephi was also shown that the Lord would help and protect those who live righteously and keep their covenants and that He would destroy the great and abominable church of the devil...

Explain that when people learn of the restored gospel, they have important choices to make. As students study 1 Nephi 14 today, invite them to look for these choices and the consequences that follow.

Invite a student to read 1 Nephi 14:1–2 aloud. Ask the class to follow along and look for the choices Nephi indicated the Gentiles could make once they learned about the gospel and the blessings that would come to them if they made those choices.
Lesson 15: 1 Nephi 14


Bible, Galatians 1
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1 KJV

Joseph Smith despised the Trinity:

“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster.”

The verses you wanted:

1 Nephi 14
9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.

In the previous chapter:

6 And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it.

7 And I also saw gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots.

8 And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/13?lang=eng

 

[Ran77]

But what your are NOT telling us and admitting to is this;

Faith is the key word and in your testimony you have to state and identify what elements you believe in or "know to be true"

Christ, of course

Your prophet Joseph Smith and/or your current prophet

And then the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Why should Christ share one's Faith? After all He is the way, not also through a prophet and a worldly church that happens to have it's headquarters in SL City.

Pardon me, but I'm not sure what you are saying.

I addressed what it means to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to "come unto Christ." I didn't offer more, because I covered what we believe. It starts with a desire to believe, then repent and change what we can, take on His name, and follow the Son.

 

[mmksparbud]

Pardon me, but I'm not sure what you are saying.

I addressed what it means to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to "come unto Christ." I didn't offer more, because I covered what we believe. It starts with a desire to believe, then repent and change what we can, take on His name, and follow the Son.

And does it take to enter into "exaltation?"

 

[Ran77]

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13
Nephi sees in vision the church of the devil set up among the Gentiles, the discovery and colonizing of America, the loss of many plain and precious parts of the Bible, the resultant state of gentile apostasy, the restoration of the gospel, the coming forth of latter-day scripture, and the building up of Zion. About 600–592 B.C.
1 Nephi 13

1 Nephi 14
An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The Saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The Apostle John will write concerning the end of the world. About 600–592 B.C.

9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.

Who is the Lamb of God according to Mormons?

In the premortal councils of heaven, God had promised Adam and Eve (and all the rest of us) that help would come from His pure, unblemished Firstborn Son, the Lamb of God “slain from the foundation of the world,”5 as the Apostle John would later describe Him.
Behold the Lamb of God

Doctrine and Covenants 1
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, on November 1, 1831, during a special conference of elders of the Church, held at Hiram, Ohio...

1–7, The voice of warning is to all people; 8–16, Apostasy and wickedness precede the Second Coming; 17–23, Joseph Smith is called to restore to earth the Lord’s truths and powers; 24–33, The Book of Mormon is brought forth and the true Church is established; 34–36, Peace will be taken from the earth; 37–39, Search these commandments.

29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.

30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually
Doctrine and Covenants 1

I'm not sure how posting a bunch of random quotes refutes my comments or supports yours. It would be helpful if you added commentary explaining how any of these verses are meaningful to the discussion.

Calling it a red herring is simply your prejudicial false statement.

I notice that you haven't demonstrated how the statement is false. Your response appears to exist as a framework to accuse me of prejudice. I don't mind, but the more that the actual topic is avoided the more that it appears you have nothing concrete against our belief.

I inserted the word Mormon in brackets to clarify the meaning for non-Mormons.

"If the original material includes a noun or pronoun that is unclear, brackets can be used for clarification."
From Brackets | The Punctuation Guide

Doesn't change my previous point. I find it unlikely that anyone reading verses from the Doctrine & Covenant will not associate the material within as what the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe. Which means it did not need to be clarified because it was not unclear.

Some people see the connection. You don't.

I'm pretty sure I'm the best judge of what I see and don't see. Attacking my ability to understand does nothing to refute my original statement. I would like to suggest that we stay focused on the actual topic.

 

[Ran77]

And does it take to enter into "exaltation?"

Could you please be a little more clear on what you are asking?

 

[mmksparbud]

Could you please be a little more clear on what you are asking?

What do Mormons have to do to reach "exaltation?" It is clear.

 

[Jamesone5]

We don't condemn anyone, there are only two churches the wheat is mixed with the tares in every denomination. There is only wheat and tares:

(New Testament | Matthew 13:25 - 30)

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Why do you not believe your own prophet?. It is clear from him that there are only two ways to go, Either one believes they are in the Church of the Lamb OR in the church of the devil. Very condemnational stance from the pen of Joseph Smith
As the verses you posted, nothing about being a member of a Church---you are all about being in a Church---did you forget?

 

[Jamesone5]

Pardon me, but I'm not sure what you are saying.

I addressed what it means to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to "come unto Christ." I didn't offer more, because I covered what we believe. It starts with a desire to believe, then repent and change what we can, take on His name, and follow the Son.

A Mormon's testimony.

You seem to want to avoid talking about your testimonies. What you Mormons say you believe and "know" as if they are some kind of chant that you hope God will look down at you members and approve.

when a True Believer gives a testimony, It is generally all about what Christ has done in their lives, instead of adding a false prophet and a church or a fictitious writing such as the BoM.

 

[He is the way]

Why do you not believe your own prophet?. It is clear from him that there are only two ways to go, Either one believes they are in the Church of the Lamb OR in the church of the devil. Very condemnational stance from the pen of Joseph Smith
As the verses you posted, nothing about being a member of a Church---you are all about being in a Church---did you forget?

Do you not understand that there are bad and good people in every church? Being a member of any church does not mean that you are a good person or that you will be saved. Every church on earth has members of the church of the devil and members of the church of the lamb of God in them. Or in other words every church on earth has wheat and tares in them. It was so even when Christ was on the earth:

(New Testament | John 6:70)

70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

 

[He is the way]

A Mormon's testimony.

You seem to want to avoid talking about your testimonies. What you Mormons say you believe and "know" as if they are some kind of chant that you hope God will look down at you members and approve.

when a True Believer gives a testimony, It is generally all about what Christ has done in their lives, instead of adding a false prophet and a church or a fictitious writing such as the BoM.

The Book of Mormon is not fictitious nor is Joseph Smith a false prophet. I will continue to debunk your erroneous statements.

 

[Jamesone5]

The Book of Mormon is not fictitious nor is Joseph Smith a false prophet. I will continue to debunk your erroneous statements.

So in your particular ward you do not give testimonies?
Kindly point out what is erroneous.