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Mormon view of Creation?

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Aduro Amnis

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Several Mormons have told me that the claimed Book of Enoch explains Creation in more detail.

Which Creation Story does the Book of Enoch explain, Gensis 1 or Gensis 2-3?

Also, a Mormon once told me that the reason that reason that the Earth dates to be 4.66 billion years old is because the parts it was made of are that age.

Is this the general Mormon view of Creation?
 

arizona_sunshine

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Aduro Amnis said:
Also, a Mormon once told me that the reason that reason that the Earth dates to be 4.66 billion years old is because the parts it was made of are that age.

I do not know if that perception jives.

We believe in the creation, verses atheistic evolution, and we do not promote the belief in 'young earth creation'. After that, I do not think there is an 'official position' on the specifics.
 
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Acolyte

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arizona_sunshine said:
I do not know if that perception jives.

We believe in the creation, verses atheistic evolution, and we do not promote the belief in 'young earth creation'. After that, I do not think there is an 'official position' on the specifics.
:eek: You don't know your own churches doctrine?

Pat Zukeran said:
According to Mormon theology, God the Father lives on a planet with His spirit wives procreating spirit children who await physical bodies to inhabit. As we learned earlier, Jesus is the first son born to Elohim. God the Father had numerous other offspring, which included Lucifer. This makes him a spirit brother of Jesus and of all human beings. Mormon theologian LeGrand Richards writes, "Satan was just as much a man in the spirit world, as were those spirits who have been given bodies through birth in this world."{9}

Mormonism teaches that Jesus and Lucifer were involved in planning mankind's eternal destiny. In order to attain godhood like our heavenly parents, the spirit children needed to leave the presence of their heavenly Father, inhabit a physical body, and live a worthy life. Elohim knew that mankind would sin and thus require a savior to pay for sin and show us how to return to our heavenly father. At the heavenly council, Jesus and Lucifer proposed their plans. Lucifer offered to go to earth and be the savior but he wanted to force everyone to be saved and do everything himself. Jesus desired to give man the freedom of choice. The Father chose Jesus' plan. Angered by the decision, Lucifer persuaded one third of the spirit children to rebel and a war in heaven took place between Satan's forces and Jesus and His followers. Lucifer was defeated, cast out of heaven, and denied the right to inhabit mortal bodies.{10} Without the ability to attain physical bodies, exaltation to the Celestial kingdom is impossible. He became known as Satan and his followers became the demons who now exist on earth as spirits opposing God's work.

Mormon theologian Bruce McConkie states, "The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the worlds was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the savior of mankind."{11}

The Bible teaches that Jesus is not the spirit brother of Lucifer or of human beings. Lucifer is an angel and part of the created order. Ezekiel 28:13-19 reveals that Lucifer, in contrast to Jesus, is a created cherub angel. Colossians 1:16 tells us that Christ is the Creator of all things, including the angelic realm. The words "thrones", "dominions", "principalities" and "powers" were used by rabbinical Jews to describe different orders of angels. In Colossae, there was a problem of worshipping angels. Christ had been degraded to their level. Paul's argument here is that Christ is superior to the angels for Christ created them. Lucifer falls into this category of a created angel, thus making him a created being. Hebrews 1:4 also reinforces the fact that Jesus, being God the Son, is superior in nature to the angels. Christ is Creator, while Lucifer is creature, two totally different classes and they cannot be spirit brothers as Mormonism teaches.

The Incarnation of Christ
The Mormon doctrine of Jesus deviates from biblical teaching regarding the preincarnate life of Christ. It also deviates in its teaching on the incarnation of Jesus. Mormonism teaches that Jesus' incarnation was the result of sexual relations between the flesh and bone Heavenly Father and Mary. Jesus is the only earthly offspring so conceived. Mormon theologian Bruce McConkie states, "Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers."{12}

He also writes, "God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; He was born in the same personal, real and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about this paternity; He was begotten, conceived, and born in the normal and natural course of events, for He is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says."{13}

James Talmage wrote, "Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh."{14}

Mormon theology teaches that the Father was the main person involved in Mary's conception, not the Holy Spirit. Joseph Fielding Smith wrote, "Christ is not the Son of the Holy Ghost, but of the Father."{15} Mormon Historian Stephen Robinson states, "Mary was in some unspecified manner made pregnant by God the Father, through the power of the Holy Spirit."{16} Dr. Robinson attempts to remain faithful to Mormon theology and the Bible, but his attempt falls short.

The Bible makes it clear: Jesus was conceived as the result of a miraculous work of the Holy Spirit, not a physical union with the Father. John 4:24 says that God is spirit. He is not a resurrected man.

Luke 1:35 states, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you." The Holy Spirit's supernatural work in Mary's body enabled Christ--eternal God--to take on human nature. Jesus thus had a dual nature. He was fully God and fully man. Mormons reject this teaching.

Stephen Robinson writes, the "unbiblical doctrine of the two natures in Christ was added to historic Christianity by the Council of Chalcedon in 451 A.D."{17} This might be a consistent conclusion for Mormonism, but it is contrary to the Bible. Throughout the Gospels Jesus showed His humanity: He was hungry, He got tired, and His human body experienced death. However, He also revealed His divinity, demonstrating omnipotence (Colossians 1:17), omniscience (John 2:25), eternity (John 1:1), and omnipresence (Matthew 28:20).

There is a wide separation between the Mormon doctrine of the incarnation of Christ and what the Bible teaches.

This is just a small tid bit. Here is the whole big ship.

My grandmother on my father's side is a Mormon, when she found out from her pastor that the LDS taught this she nearly had a heart attack.
 
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Acolyte

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fatboys said:
We believe that God created the earth. He did so in six creative periods. How long those creative periods took we have not idea. We do know that when on creative perioded ended they called that a day.
Yes, but do you believe that God lives on a distant planet birthing babies (spiritual ones) with his wife?

Oh, on another note and off topic. The words "Day" and "night" are a mistranslation. The actual words were something more like, "Chaos" and "order". :topic:
 
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fatboys

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Acolyte said:
Yes, but do you believe that God lives on a distant planet birthing babies (spiritual ones) with his wife?

Oh, on another note and off topic. The words "Day" and "night" are a mistranslation. The actual words were something more like, "Chaos" and "order". :topic:

FB: What was in Chaos?
 
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Acolyte

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fatboys said:
FB: What was in Chaos?
Genesis 1:18 "God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day"

Morning and evening were never in the OT. It would have said "God called the expanse heaven. And there was chaos and there was order"

It is a mistranslation. :)
 
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Wrigley

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fatboys said:
FB: Well I believe in Evolution. Perhaps not your usual evolutionist. I believe in the eternal evolution.
Doesn't surprise me. I would think all mormons would believe in evolution.

Fits in with the idea of eternal progression,
 
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Swart

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Wrigley said:
Doesn't surprise me. I would think all mormons would believe in evolution.

Fits in with the idea of eternal progression,

Actually, very few "believe" in Evolution.

At the risk of starting a sub-thread. I don't think it is possible to "believe" in Evolution. Evolution is a set of scientific theories that are not subject to faith concepts. They stand and fall on their evidences. Thus there is no such thing as a Science vs Religion argument when it comes to evolution, it is a Science vs Science argument.
 
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Wrigley

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Swart said:
Actually, very few "believe" in Evolution.
That surprises me. I guess I'll have to look into that. Don't be upset if I don't take your word for it.

At the risk of starting a sub-thread. I don't think it is possible to "believe" in Evolution. Evolution is a set of scientific theories that are not subject to faith concepts.
Would be nice it that were true. I've seen evolution looked at as religious dogma by those who believe it.
 
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Swart

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Acolyte said:
:eek: You don't know your own churches doctrine?



This is just a small tid bit. Here is the whole big ship.

Geee. You mean we need to go to an anti-mormon website so we can find out what we *really* believe.

This is such a mantra with COTMC. Straw-man syndrome.

Acolyte said:
My grandmother on my father's side is a Mormon, when she found out from her pastor that the LDS taught this she nearly had a heart attack.

You mean she went through HER ENTIRE LIFE, without KNOWING WHAT SHE BELIEVED?

Or perhaps her beliefs were misrepresented to her?
 
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LifeLuver

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>>>Are any of you Theistic Evolutionists?<<<

I've got no problem with evolution if that's what you mean. My view is simply I don't see why G-d couldn't use it (or more acurately something like it). Truthfully I couldn't figure out what they big deal was in biology class last year when we were learning about it.

Seeing that I don't really have a problem with evolution and I lean more towards it...yeah I guess you could say that I am a Theistic Evolutionist. Theistic evolutionist says hi! :)

>>>
That surprises me. I guess I'll have to look into that. Don't be upset if I don't take your word for it.<<<

I second Fatboy on the point that most mormons don't believe in evolution.You should have heard my mother when she heard I didn't have a problem with evolution. Or my Semenary teacher last year who had a lesson about (*cough*against*cough*) evolution, or as he put it, some scientific theories. Or others who've had talks/discussions with others about "evilution." It's not a popular view at all to say the least. Not to say there aren't people who do. A number of my friends (and not the net type mind you) do. The majority doesn't though.


On a side note. Everyone have a good Easter? :) Mine wasn't too bad. The weather went icky on Sunday though. :(
 
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Swart

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Wrigley said:
That surprises me. I guess I'll have to look into that. Don't be upset if I don't take your word for it.

No problem! Be careful with your sample size though.

Wrigley said:
Would be nice it that were true. I've seen evolution looked at as religious dogma by those who believe it.

This is the subject of a project I'm working on entitled "The New Inquisition". It is the primary reason I have started posting to this forum. Once I get a good enough feel for things here, I'll post the treatise to see what response I get.
 
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F

funguy

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Acolyte said:
:eek: You don't know your own churches doctrine?



This is just a small tid bit. Here is the whole big ship.

My grandmother on my father's side is a Mormon, when she found out from her pastor that the LDS taught this she nearly had a heart attack.

next time you feel the need to do that, go to the bathroom. Helps if you understand LDS doctrine before you start trying to be an expert on it.

Now about this thread in general. Maybe they should have called it "hey, why don't we talk about something that probably most mormons and main streams Christians actually think alike about."

I've gone to college till it hurts, but beyond some adaptation and mixing of breeds, evolution as I understand it seems like a pretty foolish notion which has nil evidence for its proof on the other hand I have not met anyone who completely understands all of the processes used in creation.
 
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