mormon theology denies mark 3:28-30

[skylark1]

I agree with you. One thing I noticed, and has always troubled me, is how everyone who reads scripture, and reads an epistle which is written to a certain people, they automatically assume what is being said pertains to them. The apostle who is writing does not see us as we are, and we all vary in many ways. The principles taught are a constant, but how they are applied and to whom is not universal. The apostles wrote different things to Christian groups in different areas who had unique circumstances, and they wrote by inspiration to best address those circumstances. At times they recognized that an epistle wouldn't do, and had to teach/correct them in person. When the Bible says "we are this," or "we are that," the "we" pertains to that group specifically.

Today. we have every responsibility to say this is how we should be for this reason, and this will be the result if we are being this way. But to automatically assume that the shoe fits us the same is taking great privledge.

Why do you have such a problem with the belief that these words that Paul wrote are to apply to all Christians?

Romans 5
5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

2 Timothy 1
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


The only reason that I can think of that you would object is if you do not believe that God has not poured out his love to us (all Christians) by the Holy Spirit whom he has given us (all Christians). MF, are you saying that you do not believe that God has poured out His love to me, by the Holy Spirit that He has given me?

 

[MormonFriend]

MF: "To love is a command? That makes no sense to me whatsoever!"
What is the point of so much objection to salvation by grace if one does not even know the commandments? How can you obey the commandments you do not know?
Matthew 22:34-4034 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Gwit, please read all of my posts. You will find that I said: "God gave us that commandment, "to love," ...."

The way Skylark worded it did not come across right. "To love is a commandment" would have made better sense.

 

[MormonFriend]

Why do you have such a problem with the belief that these words that Paul wrote are to apply to all Christians?

Romans 5
5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

2 Timothy 1
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

For the same reasons I gave in my post. Romans 5 says "into our hearts" You and I are not there for Paul to discern if we are recipients. The verse without doubt verifies that God does pour out His love to His saints.

[/QUOTE]

The only reason that I can think of that you would object is if you do not believe that God has not poured out his love to us (all Christians) by the Holy Spirit whom he has given us (all Christians). MF, are you saying that you do not believe that God has poured out His love to me, by the Holy Spirit that He has given me?

Who said I objected? I said that I was troubled. I know that God has poured out His love to all by the Holy Spirit, but on the receiving end there has to be an open heart to take it in. You personally? I won't go there. Me personally? I can see that I still have not opened my heart fully, to receive His fullness. And God is still working with me via refinement.

 

[skylark1]

Gwit, please read all of my posts. You will find that I said: "God gave us that commandment, "to love," ...."

The way Skylark worded it did not come across right. "To love is a commandment" would have made better sense.

It made sense to me.

Command can be a verb or a noun. In this case it was a noun.


command n 1: an authoritative direction or instruction to do something

com·mand·ment n 1. A command; an edict.

 

[Der Alte]

I agree with you. One thing I noticed, and has always troubled me, is how everyone who reads scripture, and reads an epistle which is written to a certain people, they automatically assume what is being said pertains to them. The apostle who is writing does not see us as we are, and we all vary in many ways. The principles taught are a constant, but how they are applied and to whom is not universal. The apostles wrote different things to Christian groups in different areas who had unique circumstances, and they wrote by inspiration to best address those circumstances. At times they recognized that an epistle wouldn't do, and had to teach/correct them in person. When the Bible says "we are this," or "we are that," the "we" pertains to that group specifically.

Today. we have every responsibility to say this is how we should be for this reason, and this will be the result if we are being this way. But to automatically assume that the shoe fits us the same is taking great privledge.

Houston we have a problem!

You are criticizing non-Mormons for supposedly misapplying scripture that you claim applied to only a specific time or situation, although the writer used inclusive language, such as "we, us, our," etc.
[bible]1 Corinthians 15:29[/bible]
In this case Paul did not use inclusive language. Paul did not say, "what shall we (including himself and the Corinthian church) do which are baptized for the dead?" And Paul did not say, "what shall you, (meaning the Corinthian church but not including himself) do which are baptized for the dead?"

But Paul very clearly was referring to some group outside the body of believers, "what shall they (not the Corinthian church and not Paul) do which are baptized for the dead?"

Although Paul very clearly and distinctly excludes the church from those practicing baptism for the dead, LDS "automatically assume what is being said pertains to them." This is known as special pleading.

 

[Frankie]

[/color]




For the same reasons I gave in my post. Romans 5 says "into our hearts" You and I are not there for Paul to discern if we are recipients. The verse without doubt verifies that God does pour out His love to His saints.

Who said I objected? I said that I was troubled. I know that God has poured out His love to all by the Holy Spirit, but on the receiving end there has to be an open heart to take it in. You personally? I won't go there. Me personally? I can see that I still have not opened my heart fully, to receive His fullness. And God is still working with me via refinement.

MF, are you saying that you are not indwelled with the holy spirit because God is still "working on you"?

 

[skylark1]

For the same reasons I gave in my post. Romans 5 says "into our hearts" You and I are not there for Paul to discern if we are recipients. The verse without doubt verifies that God does pour out His love to His saints.

I don't think that it is neccessary for Paul to discern if God the Father has poured out His love for me into my heart, when he gave the Holy Spirit to me.



Paul wrote:

Ephesians 1

13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

​

They were included in Christ when they heard the word of truth, and believed. What is there for Paul to discern? I know that I believe, and I know in whom I believe. Having believed, I have been sealed with the Holy Spirit. This is not "taking great privelege," but believing the promises that God has made.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 7
37On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

​

Who said I objected? I said that I was troubled. I know that God has poured out His love to all by the Holy Spirit, but on the receiving end there has to be an open heart to take it in. You personally? I won't go there. Me personally? I can see that I still have not opened my heart fully, to receive His fullness. And God is still working with me via refinement.

I believe that sanctification is a process, but that does not negate that fact that God said that He would pour out the Holy Spirit to those who believe. The Holy Spirit convicts me, teaches me, guides me, and brings to me the peace the only Jesus can give. It isn't something to be "troubled" about.

John 14
26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

​

 

[Rescued One]

Gwit, please read all of my posts. You will find that I said: "God gave us that commandment, "to love," ...."

The way Skylark worded it did not come across right. "To love is a commandment" would have made better sense.

I did read all of your post. Your opening statement was a little bizarre.

 

[Rescued One]

Has God poured out His love into our hearts or did that apply to only to a few Romans, or maybe only to Paul and his companions?

Does Christ dwell in us by faith?

As Skylark pointed out:

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In addition, we read:

1 John 4
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Matthew 7
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Romans 8
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ephesians 3
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

I don't think God withholds good gifts from His children. He sanctifies and perfects us.

 

[disciple00]

''hey grace only takes you so far, you gotta get to heaven on your own good works.''-the thoughts of carnal man.

john 10:1 ''Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. ''
john 10:7 ''Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.''

you can't pay for any of you sins becauyse if you do then you will be dead, the wages of sin is death. please don't asume that what you think is right is also good in the sight of God, i mean, God sacrificed his only son to save you, i tell you that the wisdom of men is foolishness to God.

 

[Chaucer]

Houston we have a problem!

You are criticizing non-Mormons for supposedly misapplying scripture that you claim applied to only a specific time or situation, although the writer used inclusive language, such as "we, us, our," etc.
[bible]1 Corinthians 15:29[/bible]
In this case Paul did not use inclusive language. Paul did not say, "what shall we (including himself and the Corinthian church) do which are baptized for the dead?" And Paul did not say, "what shall you, (meaning the Corinthian church but not including himself) do which are baptized for the dead?"

This brings up and interesting point, (and maybe I said this before).

Correct me if I am wrong, but besides historically based information, The Church of Jesus Christ does not rely on the Bible to define or interpret any of its doctrines. they rely upon modern prophets and continuating communication with God - so they believ.


...and that is probably what attracts so many to the religion - the hope that the heavens are not silent.

 

[skylark1]

...and that is probably what attracts so many to the religion - the hope that the heavens are not silent.

The heavens are not silent.

God communicates with us through His Word, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in the hearts of all believers, and through prayer. Because someone believes that the Bible is complete, does not mean that they believe that God is silent.

 

[GOD'S ARMY]

The heavens are not silent.

God communicates with us through His Word, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in the hearts of all believers, and through prayer. Because someone believes that the Bible is complete, does not mean that they believe that God is silent.

You are absolutely right. We may not all believe in a living prophet on the earth today, but we are never completely alone.

 

[Chaucer]

The heavens are not silent.

God communicates with us through His Word, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in the hearts of all believers, and through prayer. Because someone believes that the Bible is complete, does not mean that they believe that God is silent.

That's a nice sentiment but you know it's not not what I meant, unless you are thinking of something special... for example, other than the promptings of the Holy Spirit to the individual, what has God to mankind lately and whodid he say it to?

 

[happyinhisgrace]

That's a nice sentiment but you know it's not not what I meant, unless you are thinking of something special... for example, other than the promptings of the Holy Spirit to the individual, what has God to mankind lately and whodid he say it to?

Well, tonight God told me to go to church, so I did. He did tell me through the "promptings" (such a typical lds word) of the Holy Spirit though so I guess that doesn't count. Fortunatly for me, I believe the Holy Spirit is God so when I am led by the Holy Spirit, I am being spoken to by God.

 

[Chaucer]

Well, tonight God told me to go to church, so I did. He did tell me through the "promptings" (such a typical lds word) of the Holy Spirit though so I guess that doesn't count. .

Ya think?

http://www.catholicherald.com/gospel/01gc/gc010531.htm
http://www.acts17-11.com/prayer_spirit.html
http://www.theuniversityconcourse.com/V,4,12-3-1999/Sharafinski.htm
http://www.peacemakers.net/unity/chsthesuperlativeexcellence.htm
http://home.inreach.com/bstanley/spirit.htm

Guess not, and no, that doesn't count, unless you maintain that God was speaking though you, to the rest of us, that we ought accompany you to church.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

Ya think?

http://www.catholicherald.com/gospel/01gc/gc010531.htm
http://www.acts17-11.com/prayer_spirit.html
http://www.theuniversityconcourse.com/V,4,12-3-1999/Sharafinski.htm
http://www.peacemakers.net/unity/chsthesuperlativeexcellence.htm
http://home.inreach.com/bstanley/spirit.htm

Guess not, and no, that doesn't count, unless you maintain that God was speaking though you, to the rest of us, that we ought accompany you to church.

God, through the Holy Spirit has spoke through me when talking to others of Jesus and sharing the message of the Lord's saving grace to others. There have been many times when I know the Holy Spirit was speaking through me to witness of Jesus because the things I said were just to "knowlegable and easy" for me to say.

Does that count?

 

[Chaucer]

I'm glad that you have a testimony Happy, although that kind of sounds Mormonism to me but I am asking what has God proclaimed to the world lately and through whom did he proclaim it.

If you are claiming to be the oracle through which God communicates with mankind, you going to have to state it a bit more clearly.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

I'm glad that you have a testimony Happy, although that kind of sounds Mormonism to me but I am asking what has God proclaimed to the world lately and through whom did he proclaim it.

If you are claiming to be the oracle through which God communicates with mankind, you going to have to state it a bit more clearly.

No, I am not the "oracle" that God speaks through in the sense that I think you are meaning. I believe the Holy Spirit is the way that God speaks to man. I believe that the Holy Spirit works through man but I do not believe that there is one final authority so to speak on this earth that is the "mouth piece" for God. I believe that the Holy Spirit is the mouth piece for God and that all believers are indwelled with the Holy Spirit to do the will of God.

You think my testimony sounds "mormon"? But I didn't even use the words "I bury you my testimony", "I know this church is true", "I know that JS was a true prophet of God", "I know that the temple is the Lord's house here upon the earth today", or "I say these things humbly, in the name of thy son, Jesus Christ, amen". You really thought my "testimony" sounded lds?

 

[Chaucer]

No, I am not the "oracle" that God speaks through in the sense that I think you are meaning. I believe the Holy Spirit is the way that God speaks to man. I believe that the Holy Spirit works through man but I do not believe that there is one final authority so to speak on this earth that is the "mouth piece" for God. I believe that the Holy Spirit is the mouth piece for God and that all believers are indwelled with the Holy Spirit to do the will of God.

You took a long time to agree with my point that besides the promptings of the Holy Spirit to the individual, the heavens remain silent.

"I bury you my testimony",

What does that mean, or was it just a typo?