mormon theology denies mark 3:28-30

[Rescued One]

Your opinion is well voiced, but it does not address the conflict of interest I posted, to which this is supposed to be a respose.

The same goes for you and me. Just because we claim it does not make it so.

Nevertheless, are you claiming that all leaders, in what you stake out as true Christianity, have the same spirit of understanding?

I don't understand your question, but I've told you before that the Holy Spirit guides Christians to all truth. Jesus said that He would, and I believe what Jesus said.

 

[MormonFriend]

So all the people outside the LDS church are listening to the wrong spirit according to LDS church teachings, right?

It is according to the Bible, as I have illustrated too many times. And contrary to your belief, we believe in the teachings of the Bible. There may be some LDS who may disagree with me. If the prophet or an apostle told me I am wrong, I would not understand why, but I would believe him and search for the reasons why.

Oh, no, how could they have a "burning in the bosom" from different spirits?

They cannot. If they claim to have that confirmation over conflicting answers, someone is faking it, or he/she does not really understand that burning which the diciples on the road to Emmaus verified as a source of true understanding.

 

[Rescued One]

It is according to the Bible, as I have illustrated too many times. And contrary to your belief, we believe in the teachings of the Bible. There may be some LDS who may disagree with me. If the prophet or an apostle told me I am wrong, I would not understand why, but I would believe him and search for the reasons why.

The Bible does not say that everyone outside the LDS is listening to the wrong spirit.

 

[MormonFriend]

Of course you do. I think that is called cognitive dissonance.

I call it avoidance.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

It is according to the Bible, as I have illustrated too many times. And contrary to your belief, we believe in the teachings of the Bible. There may be some LDS who may disagree with me. If the prophet or an apostle told me I am wrong, I would not understand why, but I would believe him and search for the reasons why.




They cannot. If they claim to have that confirmation over conflicting answers, someone is faking it, or he/she does not really understand that burning which the diciples on the road to Emmaus verified as a source of true understanding.

Mormon Friend, what in the Bible says that your lds understanding of the Holy Spirit is the "true" understanding? Also, can you please post the exact scriptures that say what you believe decribes this "true understanding" of the Holy Spirit? What exactly was it that the "deciples" said was the "verification" of true understanding?

 

[happyinhisgrace]

...There may be some LDS who may disagree with me....

No, that can't be possible because according to the things you have said, that would mean that not all of you "lds" have the same spirit. That would mean that you are divided and as you have stated, how can any religious group of people who is divided in their opinions have the "true" spirit of God with them. It just isn't possible, right?

 

[MormonFriend]

No, that can't be possible because according to the things you have said, that would mean that not all of you "lds" have the same spirit. That would mean that you are divided and as you have stated, how can any religious group of people who is divided in their opinions have the "true" spirit of God with them. It just isn't possible, right?

See post 212 again, ... and take time to "ponder." And you are trying to impose something that I never said. Having different "opininions" does mean that the Spirit is not the source of the understanding of the erroneous opinions. But our purpose here is to learn to communicate better each day with the Spirit. Actually, it is beneficial for these differences of opinion, because it reveals that someone is still lacking, and causes a person to search deeper. But to split up the church over opinions and create new denominations is definately a no-no.

 

[happyinhisgrace]

See post 212 again, ... and take time to "ponder." And you are trying to impose something that I never said. Having different "opininions" does mean that the Spirit is not the source of the understanding of the erroneous opinions. But our purpose here is to learn to communicate better each day with the Spirit. Actually, it is beneficial for these differences of opinion, because it reveals that someone is still lacking, and causes a person to search deeper. But to split up the church over opinions and create new denominations is definately a no-no.

The "church" is the body of believers in the one true Jesus, that includes people from all different religions. You can not split up the body of Christ. Yes, people have differnt views and opinion and attend different churches for worship but they are united in their belief in the one true God of the Bible.

It seems to me that you want it both ways. You want to be able to claim that Christianity is hopelessly divided and has no true unity or truth of the Holy Spirit because they have different opinions and attend different services with others who also embrase those opinions but that Mormons can have all the different opinions they want but sense they stay in the Mormon church rather than find a new church, that means that they still have the truth of the holy spirit and there is no division among them. You want it both ways and I am sorry MF, but it just doesn't work that way. According to the things you have said, if the lds members are not in complete agreement to the "things of God" then that means that they are also divided regardless of the fact that they still have their names on the membership records of the "one true church". cough cough. As so many lds love to repeatly say, "if you are going to apply your reasoning to our church, you have to apply it to yours also".

 

[Rescued One]

... But to split up the church over opinions and create new denominations is definately a no-no.

Christ's Church can not be split and never has been as He is the Head of it. Christians become members of His church for eternity.

John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

 

[Rescued One]

Post #207:

The gift of the Holy Spirit is administered by the laying on of hands. This requires those who have the authority to do so.

Nevertheless, the Holy Spirit can and will reveal truth as you said. We need to have our spiritual pumps primed to get us started.



This brings us back to my point that you cannot rectify. If people hear the same Spirit who "guided prophets", they would understand things in one accord. The multitude of divisions reveals that there is a multitude of Christian leaders that do not hear the same Spirit. Surely the Spirit did not "guide" them to divide, because that is contrary to the Word of God.

Post #227:

See post 212 again, ... and take time to "ponder." And you are trying to impose something that I never said. Having different "opininions" does mean that the Spirit is not the source of the understanding of the erroneous opinions. But our purpose here is to learn to communicate better each day with the Spirit. Actually, it is beneficial for these differences of opinion, because it reveals that someone is still lacking, and causes a person to search deeper. But to split up the church over opinions and create new denominations is definately a no-no.

:o Let us know when your mind is made up. Thanks.

 

[MormonFriend]

..... Having different "opininions" does mean that the Spirit is not the source of the understanding of the erroneous opinions. But our purpose here is to learn to communicate better each day with the Spirit. Actually, it is beneficial for these differences of opinion, because it reveals that someone is still lacking, and causes a person to search deeper. But to split up the church over opinions and create new denominations is definately a no-no.

The "church" is the body of believers in the one true Jesus, that includes people from all different religions. You can not split up the body of Christ. Yes, people have differnt views and opinion and attend different churches for worship but they are united in their belief in the one true God of the Bible.

It seems to me that you want it both ways. You want to be able to claim that Christianity is hopelessly divided and has no true unity or truth of the Holy Spirit because they have different opinions and attend different services with others who also embrase those opinions but that Mormons can have all the different opinions they want but sense they stay in the Mormon church rather than find a new church, that means that they still have the truth of the holy spirit and there is no division among them. You want it both ways and I am sorry MF, but it just doesn't work that way. According to the things you have said, if the lds members are not in complete agreement to the "things of God" then that means that they are also divided regardless of the fact that they still have their names on the membership records of the "one true church". cough cough. As so many lds love to repeatly say, "if you are going to apply your reasoning to our church, you have to apply it to yours also".

I am aware of my weakness in expressing myself, but I think I can come crystal clear with this post.

We are sinners, and as such we have various levels of evil. With words used in scripture, it is the sick that needs healing. That is the purpose of the church, and the principles of truth, to administer truth as good medicine. We can overcome evil. We do not understand things as they really are until we depart from evil. (Job 28:28) And since we are evil, then we lack understanding at various levels. Since we lack understanding, then we will have difference of opinions. It is a natural phenomenon for those who come to Christ and His Church, for the purpose to be cleansed from evil, to not see eye to eye with the others, because they have only started the process of departing from evil.

To have difference of opinion is not to be divided, but to be expected. But to divide up the hospital (the church) because of disagreement as to what medicine is correct (truth), is what I see as the focus when Paul said: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 1:10)

He went on to warn them about the contentions. I have never seen a serious contention over our difference of opinions. Yet I see that contention is vastly out of control in many divisions that still occur among Christian congregations. It is often in the paper.

Paul said "...be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."
That cannot happen until we hear the same Spirit, and that will not happen until we depart from evil, one step at a time.

 

[MormonFriend]

Post #207:




Post #227:



:o Let us know when your mind is made up. Thanks.

Well, I saw in post #227 that I spelled "opinion" wrong and right. But I need your help to find what you are referring to.

 

[MormonFriend]

I am aware of my weakness in expressing myself, but I think I can come crystal clear with this post.

We are sinners, and as such we have various levels of evil. With words used in scripture, it is the sick that needs healing. That is the purpose of the church, and the principles of truth, to administer truth as good medicine. We can overcome evil. We do not understand things as they really are until we depart from evil. (Job 28:28) And since we are evil, then we lack understanding at various levels. Since we lack understanding, then we will have difference of opinions. It is a natural phenomenon for those who come to Christ and His Church, for the purpose to be cleansed from evil, to not see eye to eye with the others, because they have only started the process of departing from evil.

To have difference of opinion is not to be divided, but to be expected. But to divide up the hospital (the church) because of disagreement as to what medicine is correct (truth), is what I see as the focus when Paul said: Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians1:10)

He went on to warn them about the contentions. I have never seen a serious contention over our difference of opinions. Yet I see that contention is vastly out of control in many divisions that still occur among Christian congregations. It is often in the paper.

Paul said "...be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."
That cannot happen until we hear the same Spirit, and that will not happen until we depart from evil, one step at a time.

Some of your current posts are ignoring the perspective I gave here.

 

[gort]

MF partial quote:

He went on to warn them about the contentions. I have never seen a serious contention over our difference of opinions. Yet I see that contention is vastly out of control in many divisions that still occur among Christian congregations. It is often in the paper.

Hello,

I for one, would be interested in your list of "out of control" contentions, if you would please to provide. thanx

<><

 

[MormonFriend]

Hello,

I for one, would be interested in your list of "out of control" contentions, if you would please to provide. thanx

<><

Hi,

When a congregation splits over an issue, that is part of what I consider out of control. (and both congregations are still considered within the body of Christ) I have read of these current events often in my area alone. Even some very good and very much respected Christian friends of mine have discribed such things going on in their congregations, such as when a minister retires, financial issues etc. Current divisions over doctrine, I am not aware of any recent activity, but history is bulging at the seams with such events, way back to the Nicean Creed.

Was Luther approved by the leadership of the existing Christian Church to split from their counsel and doctrines? Were not "Baptists" a result of those Christians who separated themselves over the issue of baptism. And Methodists a result of the necessity of methodology in worship? Presbyterian divided over the form of Church government.

Don't get me wrong, the reformation is the best thing that could have happened. It signifies that the people were searching for truth that was not being followed, or did not exist.

 

[Rescued One]

MF, the pot is calling the kettle black. You refer to us as Christians which means we are part of the body of Christ. You refer to LDS as Christians also. How can we both be Christians? Our beliefs and yours are further apart than the Baptists are from the Presbyterians or Lutherans.

 

[gort]

MF:

Hi,

When a congregation splits over an issue, that is part of what I consider out of control. (and both congregations are still considered within the body of Christ) I have read of these current events often in my area alone. Even some very good and very much respected Christian friends of mine have discribed such things going on in their congregations, such as when a minister retires, financial issues etc. .

These seem to be minor things here, unless your friends wanted to make a big deal out of it, it seems. Minister salaries, and retirements are usually writtten down, perhaps a contract, so to speak. Ours is. And so is his retirement fund. And reviewed, upgraded and voted upon by the body yearly. There isn't anything there to whine about. And the same for expenditures of church monies. I would imagine not every church is the same.

Was Luther approved by the leadership of the existing Christian Church to split from their counsel and doctrines? Were not "Baptists" a result of those Christians who separated themselves over the issue of baptism. And Methodists a result of the necessity of methodology in worship? Presbyterian divided over the form of Church government.

They may have differences, but they are small. But they are united in the body just the same. Because they are believers, and put their trust in Jesus.


Recently, we had a "differing" point of view. The occasion was...........somebody had brought a petition for the members to sign, regarding the union of same sex marriage. The "differing" was not about allowing the marriages, but rather whether church members should even sign the petition. THe object in mind was should the church get involved with such things, or should the church adhere to preaching the gospel?

What is your opinion in this matter, MF?


<><

 

[RufustheRed]

Hi,

When a congregation splits over an issue, that is part of what I consider out of control. (and both congregations are still considered within the body of Christ) I have read of these current events often in my area alone. Even some very good and very much respected Christian friends of mine have discribed such things going on in their congregations, such as when a minister retires, financial issues etc. Current divisions over doctrine, I am not aware of any recent activity, but history is bulging at the seams with such events, way back to the Nicean Creed.

Was Luther approved by the leadership of the existing Christian Church to split from their counsel and doctrines? Were not "Baptists" a result of those Christians who separated themselves over the issue of baptism. And Methodists a result of the necessity of methodology in worship? Presbyterian divided over the form of Church government.

Don't get me wrong, the reformation is the best thing that could have happened. It signifies that the people were searching for truth that was not being followed, or did not exist.

Why are you holding us to a different standard than you hold yourself to? How many groups or splinters have broken from the church you claim membership to? What about the FLDS or Temple Lot followers of Mr. Smith? And of course there is the Community of Christ (formerly referred to as RLDS). These three are not the only groups who claim "authority" from Joseph Smith's vision and the Book of Mormon. Don't they all claim some differences from your church? Didn't they all depart from Young's group? A good question here would be which came first? LDS, RLDS, Temple Lot, Strangites? The CoC say that their church was founded April 6, 1830. Do you claim the same? Perhaps it is YOUR group that apostatized and broke away...

Sven

 

[MormonFriend]

Hi,

When a congregation splits over an issue, that is part of what I consider out of control. (and both congregations are still considered within the body of Christ) I have read of these current events often in my area alone. Even some very good and very much respected Christian friends of mine have discribed such things going on in their congregations, such as when a minister retires, financial issues etc. Current divisions over doctrine, I am not aware of any recent activity, but history is bulging at the seams with such events, way back to the Nicean Creed.

Was Luther approved by the leadership of the existing Christian Church to split from their counsel and doctrines? Were not "Baptists" a result of those Christians who separated themselves over the issue of baptism. And Methodists a result of the necessity of methodology in worship? Presbyterian divided over the form of Church government.

Don't get me wrong, the reformation is the best thing that could have happened. It signifies that the people were searching for truth that was not being followed, or did not exist.

Why are you holding us to a different standard than you hold yourself to? How many groups or splinters have broken from the church you claim membership to? What about the FLDS or Temple Lot followers of Mr. Smith? And of course there is the Community of Christ (formerly referred to as RLDS). These three are not the only groups who claim "authority" from Joseph Smith's vision and the Book of Mormon. Don't they all claim some differences from your church? Didn't they all depart from Young's group? A good question here would be which came first? LDS, RLDS, Temple Lot, Strangites? The CoC say that their church was founded April 6, 1830. Do you claim the same? Perhaps it is YOUR group that apostatized and broke away...

Sven

Reread my post! What do you think I was saying when I inserted this factor: (and both congregations are still considered within the body of Christ)? That separates our standards.

Your logic is correct by saying: "Perhaps it is YOUR group that apostatized and broke away... "
That is for each individual to discover for himself. That is the only way it can be, since salvation is based on choices we make with our gift of free will.

 

[MormonFriend]

MF, the pot is calling the kettle black. You refer to us as Christians which means we are part of the body of Christ. You refer to LDS as Christians also. How can we both be Christians? Our beliefs and yours are further apart than the Baptists are from the Presbyterians or Lutherans.

You profess a belief in God, you are not atheist.
You do not follow Buddah.
You do not follow Islam.
You recognize the Jews as a covenant people of God, but also recognize Jesus as the Son of God.

What other conclusion can be made? I posted some deeper consideration to this issue an hour ago in another thread. I hope you saw it.