LDS Mormon Requirements for Eternal Life

[Jane_Doe]

How is baptism conducted in a Mormon church?

For whom: The baptizee must desire baptism, having a repentant heart and faith in Christ. We do chat beforehand to make sure they understand things. They must be at least 8 years old.
By whom: a person who is authorized to baptized by the Lord-- in other words bears His priesthood.
How: by full immersion, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

One book I've read told of a girl being baptized as a Mormon at the age of 12. She was baptized by immersion in the church basement in a bathing suit with only a few family and friends there. An elder was there as an observer to examine the baptism and make sure it was legally valid.

Sounds perfectly reasonable.
The "examiner" (we actually call them "witnesses") is there to official witness the event. They do also make sure things are done right.

Baptists and other evangelicals baptize by immersion but it would always be done in a church service. This is partly because baptism is supposed to be a public event and partly as an example to others who need to be baptized.

LDS baptisms are indeed open to the public and we invite tons of family and friends- like my Methodist friend has attended one (as an observer). People come from your own congregation, lots of other congregations, and frequently extended family from around the country. We do like to have celebrations afterwards too (they're happy events!).

If a person wants to skip the fan-fair and just have a super small thing, they of course can do that. Like another friend of mine (who's a recent convert) very much desired that (he's a very private dude).

 

[Jane_Doe]

I have been listening to you, we have an sincere interest in you answering "How does this interpretation compare or not to the LDS interpretation?" when what you parrot is contrary to what God revealed in the Bible ... let alone contradicts official LDS teachings \ printed material and LDS church leaders views .

So again, are you going to answer these two questions:
1) How does (Galatians 1:8-9) compare to Mormonism with it's striving and making covenants when God reveals that every one is cursed to outer darkness for failing to continue in all things which are written in the book of the law (Galatians 3:10) ?

2) When comparing YOUR beliefs (as stated in the 'clarify' post#130) to Spencer Kimball (LDS prophet) and other official LDS sources ... your beliefs deny the teachings of the LDS Church and or it's leaders.

You are expected to upholding the teachings of LDS highest authorities ... not parrot YOUR thoughts \ interpretations or beliefs.

We'll await any honest two-way conversation other than your parroted lectures like ... we don’t understand Mormonism when your own beliefs differ from that of official LDS teachings.

I'm going to start with a few ground rules for this conversation, so we have a common ground first before continuing. If you find this foundation agreeable, then it might be possible to have a conversation:

1) No trying to convert each other. I'm not here to try to impose my beliefs on you. I respect you as an intelligent person who can read scripture for her/his self and make well thought out decisions and am not going to try to change those. I except the same level of respect when I'm talking to someone else. If that level of respect is not met (such as any witnessing efforts from you), I will give you one warning. On the second violation I will skip your lecture by placing you on 'ignore'. Of course, you have the same rights if I were to try to impose my faith on you.

2) Flaming is against forum rules. Comments such as referring to someone as "parroting" is a violation of these rules we both agreed to when we signed up with CF, along with agreeing to report violations of these rules. I intend to uphold my agreement to these rules in the fullest.

3) I don't tell you "Lutherans believe..." despite the many times I've attended Lutheran services and studied Lutheran beliefs (along with pretty much every other large Christian group). It is both silly and disrespectful for me to try to inform you of your beliefs-- heck, such would only make me looking like a foolish egotistical ass! Likewise you will not say "Mormons believe..." is committing that same folly.

Are these ground rules acceptable, @twin.spin?

 

[Ironhold]

How is baptism conducted in a Mormon church?

One book I've read told of a girl being baptized as a Mormon at the age of 12. She was baptized by immersion in the church basement in a bathing suit with only a few family and friends there. An elder was there as an observer to examine the baptism and make sure it was legally valid.

Baptists and other evangelicals baptize by immersion but it would always be done in a church service. This is partly because baptism is supposed to be a public event and partly as an example to others who need to be baptized.

Baptisms are generally a separate service unto themselves.

It's full-immersion believer baptism, but the involved generally wear a jumpsuit made of white material (often cotton or a synthetic blend) that's provided by the congregation; it's congregation property, but someone - usually the family of the baptized - will take it all home to wash and return later.

Baptism services can indeed be small, as the only real requirements are a person with the appropriate priesthood authority to baptize, two priesthood holders as witnesses, and someone with the appropriate priesthood authority to conduct the service. If all of them are within a single family, then there you go. But it's far more common for a good chunk of the congregation to turn out, especially if it's been announced well in advance.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Baptisms are generally a separate service unto themselves.

It's full-immersion believer baptism, but the involved generally wear a jumpsuit made of white material (often cotton or a synthetic blend) that's provided by the congregation; it's congregation property, but someone - usually the family of the baptized - will take it all home to wash and return later.

Baptism services can indeed be small, as the only real requirements are a person with the appropriate priesthood authority to baptize, two priesthood holders as witnesses, and someone with the appropriate priesthood authority to conduct the service. If all of them are within a single family, then there you go. But it's far more common for a good chunk of the congregation to turn out, especially if it's been announced well in advance.

Well said.

 

[Ironhold]

Well said.

Thanks.

 

[Rescued One]

How is baptism conducted in a Mormon church?

One book I've read told of a girl being baptized as a Mormon at the age of 12. She was baptized by immersion in the church basement in a bathing suit with only a few family and friends there. An elder was there as an observer to examine the baptism and make sure it was legally valid.

Baptists and other evangelicals baptize by immersion but it would always be done in a church service. This is partly because baptism is supposed to be a public event and partly as an example to others who need to be baptized.

Baptismal services are separate from Sunday services. I have never seen nor heard of anyone wearing a bathing suit! There is white clothing for the person to wear. Usually there are just a few people present. I've not been in a chapel or stake center that had the baptismal font in the basement; it's in a room that is separate from the one where Sunday Services are held. Unless a person is absolutely 100% submerged the ordinance will be done over.



I was baptized on a Saturday.

Baptisms for the dead are done in a temple.

 

[Rescued One]

Baptismal services for converts should be scheduled through the ward mission leader. If a service is scheduled on a Sunday, it should be held at a time that minimizes interference with regular Sunday meetings.
20. Priesthood Ordinances and Blessings

 

[twin.spin]

I'm going to start with a few ground rules for this conversation, so we have a common ground first before continuing. If you find this foundation agreeable, then it might be possible to have a conversation:

1) No trying to convert each other. I'm not here to try to impose my beliefs on you. I respect you as an intelligent person who can read scripture for her/his self and make well thought out decisions and am not going to try to change those. I except the same level of respect when I'm talking to someone else. If that level of respect is not met (such as any witnessing efforts from you), I will give you one warning. On the second violation I will skip your lecture by placing you on 'ignore'. Of course, you have the same rights if I were to try to impose my faith on you.

You don't get to dictate the conversation when I'm following Jesus' command to "Go and make disciples of all nations" ... Jesus doesn't have an exception for the Jane_Doe types

2) Flaming is against forum rules. Comments such as referring to someone as "parroting" is a violation of these rules we both agreed to when we signed up with CF, along with agreeing to report violations of these rules. I intend to uphold my agreement to these rules in the fullest.

Flaming?? Like what you stated first in post #133 when you said:

"Do you have any honest interest, respect, or interesting listening to my thoughts? Not parroting your thoughts, but MY beliefs." ~ Jane_Doe, Saturday 12:35pm​

3) I don't tell you "Lutherans believe..." despite the many times I've attended Lutheran services and studied Lutheran beliefs (along with pretty much every other large Christian group). It is both silly and disrespectful for me to try to inform you of your beliefs-- heck, such would only make me looking like a foolish egotistical ass! Likewise you will not say "Mormons believe..." is committing that same folly.

Are these ground rules acceptable, @twin.spin?

Good to hear you've attended Lutheran services ... then no doubt you've heard

• the seriousness of sin,
• the futile efforts of striving \ keeping the commandments (since the demand then is for 'perfection \ continue in all' on the striving person's part)
• that Jesus is our 100% substitute ... not an example to follow
• forgiveness is totally unconditional
• that by faith God will freely declares perfection on the basis of Jesus' work
• and guarantees life with him without proving worthiness

 

[Jane_Doe]

You don't get to dictate the conversation when I'm following Jesus' command to "Go and make disciples of all nations" ... Jesus doesn't have an exception for the Jane_Doe types

I have the right to say how I'd like to be treated during a conversation. If someone violates that, I have the right to walk away.

Do you find the terms described in post #142 acceptable?

 

[tampasteve]

Well, this sounds like it is going to be a fruitful conversation.....

 

[twin.spin]

I have the right to say how I'd like to be treated during a conversation. If someone violates that, I have the right to walk away.

Do you find the terms described in post #142 acceptable?

Let's see ... the terms are:
1) You dictate the conversation or else
2) You threaten to report "flaming" but your post # 133 which speaks of me "parroting" isn't
3) You've attended Lutheran services \ studied Lutheran beliefs and then say elsewhere "Frankly, I've studied your faith, don't find it Biblical. " ....

Since those are your terms and you aren't shy to be "frankly" ... I'm not going to ignore when you state beliefs that are contrary to what God revealed in the Bible.

Those are the only terms that is acceptable which leaves you in a favorable light that doesn't make you look (in your words) a "foolish egotistical ***"

 

[Jane_Doe]

Let's see ... the terms are:
1) You dictate the conversation or else
2) You threaten to report "flaming" but your post # 133 which speaks of me "parroting" isn't
3) You've attended Lutheran services \ studied Lutheran beliefs and then say elsewhere "Frankly, I've studied your faith, don't find it Biblical. " ....

Since those are your terms and you aren't shy to be "frankly" ... I'm not going to ignore when you state beliefs that are contrary to what God revealed in the Bible.

Those are the only terms that is acceptable which leaves you in a favorable light that doesn't make you look (in your words) a "foolish egotistical ***"

@twin.spin, I respect your right to believe anything you want, regardless of whether or not I find it Biblical. I respect you enough that I'm willing to have a conservation trying to convince you to change your beliefs, and be respectful of you as a person while doing so. In that manner I have visited many non-LDS churches over the years in this manner, and greatly enjoy hearing the people there explain their beliefs to me in their own words.

I have asked repeatedly to have the same respectful curtesy returned, hoping to hear a affirmative answer from you. Repeatedly the answer given has been refusal and scorn. Thus I have concluded conversation with you is not going to be possible, and will no longer remain in a position where I treated so poorly.

Good-bye.

 

[Ironhold]

Let's see ... the terms are:

1 Corinthians 13 -

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Your posts have been as Paul warned about.

Your words lack love and charity.

Several people, including those who aren't Mormon, have tried to explain this to you.

Jane has every right at this point to ask for better treatment. She also has every right at this point to disengage... especially since for all intents and purposes, she's won. Your own words and actions are convicting you.

3) You've attended Lutheran services \ studied Lutheran beliefs and then say elsewhere "Frankly, I've studied your faith, don't find it Biblical. " ....

So it's OK for you to call us out, but if we say we don't like something we're wrong?

Mote. Beam.


The rest of your post does not merit a response.

 

[Rescued One]

If the Mormons and non-Mormons obey the forum rules, neither party needs to argue about etiquette.

Ephesians 4
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

 

[twin.spin]

1 Corinthians 13 -

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Your posts have been as Paul warned about.

Your words lack love and charity.

Several people, including those who aren't Mormon, have tried to explain this to you.

Jane has every right at this point to ask for better treatment. She also has every right at this point to disengage... especially since for all intents and purposes, she's won. Your own words and actions are convicting you.



So it's OK for you to call us out, but if we say we don't like something we're wrong?

Mote. Beam.


The rest of your post does not merit a response.

Here's another Paul warning:
Galatians 1:8-9 KJV
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

When it came to another gospel plans, Paul words wasn't exactly what you'd consider loving nor charitable. In fact it's quite harsh and God wouldn't reveal such warning if it weren't out of love for those who trust in "any other gospel" plan.

Which leads to what was Paul's gospel plan which was revealed by God: "Christ crucified" 1 Corinthians 1:23 and "by grace through faith alone" Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."​

That is the Biblical Christianity gospel plan (1 Corinthians 1:23 \ Ephesians 2:8-9) that God revealed which will determine for all intents and purposes who will win.
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As far as your reference to Matthew 5:48 ... still waiting why you think it's idle command.
God revealed it specifically in the present tense as "be"... not "become" perfect.

Honestly, do you reject that "be perfect" is in the present tense as the command states?

 

[Ironhold]

As far as your reference to Matthew 5:48 ... still waiting why you think it's idle command.

That you're saying this tells me you never read my post.

I'm the one who asked if it was an idle command as far as mainline Christianity was concerned, as it required people to exert effort that seemed to fly in the face of the looser interpretations of once saved, always saved.

I pointed this out, and no response.

Just like I see a failure to respond to anything else with anything but hand waves.

I've been doing this a long time. I'll still be doing this as long as I'm alive.

 

[Rescued One]

Temple Recommend Interview

1. Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

• 
  Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
  
  Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
  

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

 

[Dale]

Temple Recommend Interview

1. Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

• 
  Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
  
  Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

The first question refers to "God the Eternal Father." This is highly misleading because Mormons don't believe that God the Father has always existed.

As I remember, Orson Pratt was an LDS Apostle, a member of the Board of the church. Brigham Young, President of the LDS church at the time, excommunicated Orson Pratt because Pratt said that God is eternal, that God has always existed.

 

[Jane_Doe]

The first question refers to "God the Eternal Father." This is highly misleading because Mormons don't believe that God the Father has always existed.

Actually we very much do believe the Father has always existed. Here's some references on the subject:
God, Eternal Nature of

• eternal God is thy refuge, Deut. 33:27.
• from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God, Ps. 90:2.
• established of old: thou art from everlasting, Ps. 93:2.
• thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end, P. 102:27.
• Lord shall reign for ever, even thy God, Ps. 146:10.
• lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, Isa. 57:15.
• thy name is from everlasting, Isa. 63:16.
• I am the Lord, I change not, Mal. 3:6.

• being understood by … his eternal power and Godhead, Rom. 1:20.
• King eternal, immortal, invisible, 1 Tim. 1:17.
• Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever, Heb. 13:8 (Morm. 9:9; Moro. 10:7, 19; D&C 20:11–12).
• Alpha and Omega … the first and the last, Rev. 22:13.

• course of the Lord is one eternal round, 1 Ne. 10:19 (Alma 37:12; D&C 3:2; 35:1).
• one Eternal God, Alma 11:44.
• God … being from everlasting to everlasting, Moro. 7:22.

• I am endless, D&C 19:10.
• God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, D&C 20:17.
• Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, D&C 38:1.
• From eternity to eternity he is the same, D&C 76:4.
• Eternal God of all other gods, D&C 121:32.

• Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end, Moses 1:3.
• Endless and Eternal is my name, Moses 7:35.
  

 

[twin.spin]

That you're saying this tells me you never read my post.

I'm the one who asked if it was an idle command as far as mainline Christianity was concerned, as it required people to exert effort that seemed to fly in the face of the looser interpretations of once saved, always saved.

I pointed this out, and no response.

Just like I see a failure to respond to anything else with anything but hand waves.

I've been doing this a long time. I'll still be doing this as long as I'm alive.

Thanks for your reply.
Well you're wrong ... I read your post.
My initial reply was to see if you read what Matthew 5:48 actually says or not.

It's not idle command, never said it wasn't. Matthew 5:48 ... it's in the present tense, a present tense of being "be perfect as your heavenly Father is". The command does not state "become perfect" via using your agency and exerted effort.
Read it again (present tense state of being) "Be perfect as your heavenly Father is"

Since Jesus is an example to follow every step of the way, God revealed then one better do it continually as revealed Galatians 3:10 or such is person is cursed. Are you continually?
The Temple Recommend interview is just but one aspect of the law.

Here's another factoid that's going to ruin the narrative of the day ... once saved, always saved (OSAS) is not a Biblical teaching.