LDS Mormon Prejudice against Mormons!

[RoseCrystal]

Example: NWT.
The point of LDS being aware of translation stuff isn't to call out specific 'this one is junk' (though NWT is so horrible that's just obvious), but to be aware of the subject.

Seriously if the NWT is the only example you have then thats a really really really (did I say really?) weak argument, it wasn't even released until 1961! The LDS articles of faith were written by Joseph Smith around 1842, so ummm, yeah, that's not going to add up.

You at least have to have some sort of evidence or proof to say a bible translation is 'crap', and to be aware of the subject other than a Jehovahs Witness produced translation from 1961! (who just for the record aren't even christian)

You did say "I'm not going to insult it by accepting crap translations or pretending even the best translators are perfect." I find it very hard to believe that you were referring to just the NWT when you said that.

So could you please elaborate on exactly what it is that you mean? Because 'to be aware of the subject' is pretty vague??? Its pretty bold to insult the bible on a christian forum (or anywhere for that matter) without offering proof (again the NWT is NOT proof).

 

[Jane_Doe]

So could you please elaborate on exactly what it is that you mean? Because 'to be aware of the subject' is pretty vague??? Its pretty bold just insult the bible on a christian forum

For the record: I am in *no* way insulting the Bible.

Translation is an imperfect art: that's just a statement of fact. Words don't exist in some languages, concepts are different, metaphors are complicated. Let alone when you add in the complications of different cultures/time/places, even English evolving rapidly over time, and conveying not simple concepts.

 

[He is the way]

Very different as marriage in the Catholic Church has zero connection to salvation. In Mormonism, however, it is required to perform all the rituals of the Mormon Temple to achieve True Salvation, yet the mormon religion discriminates against all non-mormons and over 80% of their own mormon membership.

No we don't discriminate, we believe that everyone will eventually have the opportunity to be baptized and every other needful thing done for them by proxy. In fact no one would be saved if it were not for the proxy atonement of Jesus Christ. We are not to judge others, God loves all of His children.

 

[RoseCrystal]

For the record: I am in *no* way insulting the Bible.

Translation is an imperfect art: that's just a statement of fact. Words don't exist in some languages, concepts are different, metaphors are complicated. Let alone when you add in the complications of different cultures/time/places, even English evolving rapidly over time, and conveying not simple concepts.

You are aware that every christian scholar on the planet worth their degree completely disagrees with what you're saying here right? The bible is reliable, after all it is the word of God. And the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls? Suppose the shouldn't be trusted and that means nothing as well?

And still you haven't provided a reference to a translation or even a verse to back up your claims.

 

[Jane_Doe]

You are aware that every christian scholar on the planet worth their degree completely disagrees with what you're saying here right?

Actually 99% would are that translation is a complex and imperfect art.

 

[RoseCrystal]

Actually 99% would are that translation is a complex and imperfect art.

And the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls? Suppose the shouldn't be trusted and that means nothing as well?
And still you haven't provided a reference to a translation or even a verse to back up your claims.

 

[RoseCrystal]

Actually 99% would are that translation is a complex and imperfect art.

And actually 99% would agree that the transcription process to keep the bible accurate was one of the best in recorded history. Here are some rules they had to follow - so again I ask for an actual example of why the word of God is imperfect and 'we need to be aware of it'????

1. They could only use clean animal skins, both to write on, and even to bind manuscripts.
2. Each column of writing could have no less than forty-eight, and no more than sixty lines.
3. The ink must be black, and of a special recipe.
4. They must verbalize each word aloud while they were writing.
5. They must wipe the pen and wash their entire bodies before writing the word "Jehovah," every time they wrote it.
6. There must be a review within thirty days, and if as many as three pages required corrections, the entire manuscript had to be redone.
7. The letters, words, and paragraphs had to be counted, and the document became invalid if two letters touched each other. The middle paragraph, word and letter must correspond to those of the original document.
8. The documents could be stored only in sacred places (synagogues, etc).
9. As no document containing God's Word could be destroyed, they were stored, or buried, in a genizah - a Hebrew term meaning "hiding place." These were usually kept in a synagogue or sometimes in a Jewish cemetery

source info

 

[Jane_Doe]

And the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls? Suppose the shouldn't be trusted and that means nothing as well?
And still you haven't provided a reference to a translation or even a verse to back up your claims.

The Dead Sea Scrolls don't change anything about how translation is imperfect and complicated. This isn't a specifically-religious thing, but rather inherent to all translations.

And actually 99% would agree that the transcription process to keep the bible accurate was one of the best in recorded history. Here are some rules they had to follow - so again I ask for an actual example of why the word of God is imperfect and 'we need to be aware of it'????

1. They could only use clean animal skins, both to write on, and even to bind manuscripts.
2. Each column of writing could have no less than forty-eight, and no more than sixty lines.
3. The ink must be black, and of a special recipe.
4. They must verbalize each word aloud while they were writing.
5. They must wipe the pen and wash their entire bodies before writing the word "Jehovah," every time they wrote it.
6. There must be a review within thirty days, and if as many as three pages required corrections, the entire manuscript had to be redone.
7. The letters, words, and paragraphs had to be counted, and the document became invalid if two letters touched each other. The middle paragraph, word and letter must correspond to those of the original document.
8. The documents could be stored only in sacred places (synagogues, etc).
9. As no document containing God's Word could be destroyed, they were stored, or buried, in a genizah - a Hebrew term meaning "hiding place." These were usually kept in a synagogue or sometimes in a Jewish cemetery.

What I'm talking about here is TRANSLATION. Taking things in one language in time/place/culture, and translating it to another. I'm not talking about ink recipes and things like you've listed.

 

[RoseCrystal]

The Dead Sea Scrolls don't change anything about how translation is imperfect and complicated. This isn't a specifically-religious thing, but rather inherent to all translations.

They prove that the word of God is the same as it was written thousands of years ago.....
That not good enough for LDS??

 

[Jane_Doe]

They prove that the word of God is the same as it was written thousands of years ago.....
That not good enough for LDS??

Again: what I'm talking about here is TRANSLATION. Taking things in one language in time/place/culture, and translating it to another. Everything you've been posting here doesn't remotely address that topic.

 

[dzheremi]

Any religion which accepts a thing like the so-called "Book of Abraham" should not be talking about others producing 'crap' translations.

 

[RoseCrystal]

Again: what I'm talking about here is TRANSLATION. Taking things in one language in time/place/culture, and translating it to another. Everything you've been posting here doesn't remotely address that topic.

Seriously? You are putting the validity of the Holy Bible on trial for its authenticity and Gods ability to preserve it through the centuries. I offer proof that has been done and you don't think its relevant?? (proof accepted by the entire world)

You're saying that the translation of the bible is corrupted, things have been changed or misrepresented in the various translations. You offer NO proof or reference for this AT ALL. You've got no argument. No evidence and the only translation you mention is the NWT

The Dead Sea scrolls date between 100 BC and 100 AD and prove that we have not lost the word of God, its the same today. You can read an interlinear bible translation and be reading the same text that was written in 100BC to 100AD.

Perhaps you should do that

 

[Jane_Doe]

Seriously? You are putting the validity of the Holy Bible on trial for its authenticity and Gods ability to preserve it through the centuries. I offer proof that has been done and you don't think its relevant?? (proof accepted by the entire world)

You're saying that the translation of the bible is corrupted, things have been changed or misrepresented in the various translations. You offer NO proof or reference for this AT ALL. You've got no argument. No evidence and the only translation you mention is the NWT

The Dead Sea scrolls date between 100 BC and 100 AD and prove that we have not lost the word of God, its the same today. You can read an interlinear bible translation and be reading the same text that was written in 100BC to 100AD.

Perhaps you should do that

I am NOT insulting the validity of the Bible or the Bible in any way. Get that crazy and insulting idea out of your head.

 

[RoseCrystal]

I am NOT insulting the validity of the Bible or the Bible in any way. Get that crazy and insulting idea out of your head.

You're saying that the translation of the bible is corrupted, things have been changed or misrepresented in the various translations. You offer NO proof or reference for this AT ALL. You've got no argument. No evidence and the only translation you mention is the NWT

The Dead Sea scrolls date between 100 BC and 100 AD and prove that we have not lost the word of God, its the same today. You can read an interlinear bible translation and be reading the same text that was written in 100BC to 100AD.

 

[Ironhold]

They prove that the word of God is the same as it was written thousands of years ago.....
That not good enough for LDS??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannine_Comma

Care to comment on the presence of the Johanine Comma or any of the other NT passages in the Vulgate, KJV, and other translations that are absent in earlier manuscripts?

(No, this is no trap. I simply want your opinion on the matter.)

 

[RoseCrystal]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannine_Comma

Care to comment on the presence of the Johanine Comma or any of the other NT passages in the Vulgate, KJV, and other translations that are absent in earlier manuscripts?

(No, this is no trap. I simply want your opinion on the matter.)

Care to read the fact that I specifically said 'interlinear translation'

 

[RoseCrystal]

And Jospeh Smith loved the KJV, he copied a heap of passages from it straight into the Book of Mormon - errors and all

 

[Jane_Doe]

You're saying that the translation of the bible is corrupted, things have been changed or misrepresented in the various translations

That is not remotely what I have said. Rather I have referred to the Bible as God-breathed scripture. Please listen.

 

[RoseCrystal]

That is not remotely what I have said. Rather I have referred to the Bible as God-breathed scripture. Please listen.

I did listen about the bible you said "I'm not going to insult it by accepting crap translations or pretending even the best translators are perfect." and then refuse to give any supporting evidence to back up your claim.

 

[RoseCrystal]

That is not remotely what I have said. Rather I have referred to the Bible as God-breathed scripture. Please listen.

What exactly is wrong with the interlinear translation of the bible? Its word for word what was written (at least until from 100AD to 100BC) what could possibly be wrong with that translation of the bible 'that we need to be aware of'