Mormon=Christian?

[Major1]

concretecamper,

I did not just copy and paste my response to you from a collection of prepared material like some uncaring, insensitive, inhuman, entity talking AT you trying to further my personal agenda and not giving you the honor and respect that you deserve as one of God's created human beings for whom He sacrificed His Only begotten Son. I expect you also to regard me also with such honor and respect. I spent much time considering and preparing a response to adequately answer all of the questions which you gave me. You flipped it all off as "stuff" without even one word in response relative to the content. Of course there was much as you asked much but what is your response to the content? Am I to understand that you whole-heartedly agree with every point I made since you made not one disagreement with it which is surprising as you seem to be so full of disagreement here? Do you disagree with anything I said? Or are you trying to slide in under the radar undetected just like a LDS would do?

Why are you in such a hurry to pass up all of the critical and fundamental understandings of Christianity without even ONE word of comment? Are you a Mormon, Later Day Saint? You seem to be so evasive and in a hurry that you are throwing your questions which you had from a dialog with another our at me. I have an excellent answer for you regarding your questions to another but I will only answer for them if you give me full respect and honor as I have you and you put some time and thought into what I have said and respond accordingly. If you were really interested in learning you would have repeated all I have said in your own words of understanding in order to affirm your having learned what you asked me to inform you.

One thing I have learned with online forums , esp Christian ones, is that there are many, many evil people who ask questions NOT at all with the intent of learning or teaching but rather to waste the other's time and good will and to try to further their own personal agenda which they have all prepared for copy and pasting-minimal time investment for maximum waste of time of a well-meaning, and loving Christian. They are not interested in anything which one has prepared for them no matter how much work or time was obviously put into it. There are ways to discern who these are and YOU are doing a good job of fitting that profile so far. You, at least by this user name, who knows how many others you have, are noted. This is also why the other did not answer you; they may have already determined that you are just trying to frustrate and waste time and are only trying to exploit and expire good-will and/or get one to naturally respond to you as opposed to maintain self-control.

You said............
"One thing I have learned with online forums , esp Christian ones, is that there are many, many evil people who ask questions NOT at all with the intent of learning or teaching but rather to waste the other's time and good will and to try to further their own personal agenda which they have all prepared for copy and pasting-minimal time investment for maximum waste of time of a well-meaning, and loving Christian."

You are absolutely correct my brother!

My experience is that the ones you are referring to do not want to learn or grow theologically but instead want to argue their religion to you instead of growing in Christ and His knowledge.

Every single time it will allays be......
"You did not answer my question", when the truth is that there was an answer given but they did not like it so they reject it.

It is also my experience that these people we are talking about will sooner or later become very personal and confrontational because they know they are proven wrong Biblically so they have no recourse but to bully others into submission or cause them to flee the conversation.

 

[Copperhead]

It really a simple deal really. If one doesn't have the right Messiah, then salvation is not in view. The OT and NT both claim Yeshua to be the almighty God, pre-existent, there are no other gods before, after, or beside Him, and He died and now lives. Any deviation of what one believes who Yeshua is, then that is a different Messiah. And once one holds onto a different Messiah, then by default they do not have the true Messiah and salvation isn't in view. It really doesn't matter who others think that Yeshua is, it is all about who He said He was. And we have available plenty of eye witness testimony as to what Yeshua said regarding himself.

 

[Major1]

It really a simple deal really. If one doesn't have the right Messiah, then salvation is not in view. The OT and NT both claim Yeshua to be the almighty God, pre-existent, there are no other gods before, after, or beside Him, and He died and now lives. Any deviation of what one believes who Yeshua is, then that is a different Messiah. And once one holds onto a different Messiah, then by default they do not have the true Messiah and salvation isn't in view. It really doesn't matter who others think that Yeshua is, it is all about who He said He was. And we have available plenty of eye witness testimony as to what Yeshua said regarding himself.

John 14:6.........
"Jesus saith unto them, I am the way, the truth and the life, and no man comes to the Father except by me".

 

[JoeP222w]

No, Mormons are not Christians.

Christians are Monotheistic. Mormons are Polytheistic.
Christians believe that Jesus has eternally been God. Mormons believe that Jesus was once a man who became God.
Joseph Smith rejected Christianity and founded Mormonism because he felt that Christianity had it all wrong. It is only a recent development that Mormons promote themselves as Christian in order to accept more mainstream cultural acceptance.
Christians are Monergists, that God is the solely the one who regenerates the individual believer, God justifies them, God sanctifies them. Mormons are Synergists, that individuals are enabled by God to salvation, that they are to do all that they can in good works to earn their salvation, that Jesus fills what they cannot. Mormonism is primarily a works + faith salvation. Christianity is faith alone, by God's grace alone, in Jesus Christ alone.

Mormonism violates the fundamental tenets of the Christian faith to create "Jesus" in their own image.

Recommend you read "Is the Mormon My Brother?" by James R. White.

 

[Major1]

No, Mormons are not Christians.

Christians are Monotheistic. Mormons are Polytheistic.
Christians believe that Jesus has eternally been God. Mormons believe that Jesus was once a man who became God.
Joseph Smith rejected Christianity and founded Mormonism because he felt that Christianity had it all wrong. It is only a recent development that Mormons promote themselves as Christian in order to accept more mainstream cultural acceptance.
Christians are Monergists, that God is the solely the one who regenerates the individual believer, God justifies them, God sanctifies them. Mormons are Synergists, that individuals are enabled by God to salvation, that they are to do all that they can in good works to earn their salvation, that Jesus fills what they cannot. Mormonism is primarily a works + faith salvation. Christianity is faith alone, by God's grace alone, in Jesus Christ alone.

Mormonism violates the fundamental tenets of the Christian faith to create "Jesus" in their own image.

Recommend you read "Is the Mormon My Brother?" by James R. White.

You are correct. You can add to that, the teaching that Jesus and Satan are “spirit brothers” is one of the many false teachings of the Mormons.

Now please note that if a Mormon believer joins this conversation, they will vehemently deny that they believe Jesus and Satan are brothers. However, this teaching was most definitely a belief of the early Mormons.

The teaching that Jesus and Satan are “spirit brothers” is born out of the Mormons’ misunderstanding and distortion of Scripture as well as some of the extra-biblical teachings they consider to be authoritative.

Simply put, there is no way you can read the Bible using any type of sound hermeneutical principles and come away with the idea that Jesus and Satan are “spiritual brothers.” The Scriptures are very clear that Jesus is fully God, not some type of lesser god as the Mormons and other cults believe. The Scriptures are also very clear that God is transcendent above His creation, which simply means that there is no comparison between Christ the Creator and Satan His creation.

 

[concretecamper]

What is in fact this heretical belief about the 2nd Person of the Trinity. You keep saying that but you have not given us YOUR understanding. With out that what are we talking about??????

By your own admissiom you divide the persons (Divine and humam) of Christ.
Against Sacred Tradition and Scripture, you reject the Nature of the Son and by extension the Trinity. Given this fact, Mormans are as much Christian than you are.

 

[concretecamper]

Christians believe that Jesus has eternally been God.

Awesome, you confess Mary as Mother of God.

 

[JoeP222w]

Awesome, you confess Mary as Mother of God.

Please do not twist my words.

Mary carried the incarnate Jesus in her womb by the power of the Holy Spirit. Mary has not eternally existed, nor is she the eternal mother of God, nor was she an eternal virgin, nor was she immaculately conceived, nor was she without sin, nor was she assumed into Heaven. Nowhere in the Bible is Mary identified as the "Mother of God".

I reject Roman Catholic false doctrines that teach that Mary is anything apart from what the Bible teaches she is, that is, a sinner blessed of God, chosen by God, and saved by His grace alone, by faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone.

 

[Major1]

By your own admissiom you divide the persons (Divine and humam) of Christ.
Against Sacred Tradition and Scripture, you reject the Nature of the Son and by extension the Trinity. Given this fact, Mormans are as much Christian than you are.

I can see that you are confused. Allow me to help you understand some basic Bible Christian theology. I do not say that in a mean spirited or prideful manner, only that your own words are what I am responding to.

I would say also that your attempt to say that Mormons are Christians is a very poor and impossible task.

I do not know why you would say that I have........."divided the persons (Divine and humam) of Christ."
Neither do I understand why you would be challenging me on the position of Jesus Christ as the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

Let me be very clear here for you. Your comment is wrong and your understanding of Scriptural Doctrine is suspect. I really do not know where you are coming from. My dear friend, Jesus has two distinct natures: He is both divine and human. Jesus is the Word who was God and was with God and was made flesh. That is NOT my opinion but in fact is the Word of God.

John 1:1..................
"In the beginning was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God and the Word was God".

Verse 14.............
"And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld His glory, the glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth".

This means that in the single person of Jesus he has both a human and divine nature, God and man. He is the God-Man, the Lord Jesus Christ.

The divine nature was not changed when the Word became flesh as I posted for YOU in John 1:1 & 14. Instead, the Word was joined with humanity as seen in Col. 2:9..........
"For in Him, (Christ) dwelleth ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD BODILY".

Jesus' divine nature was not altered. Also, Jesus is not merely a man who "had God within Him," nor is he a man who "manifested the God principle." He is God in flesh, second person of the Trinity.

Hebrews 1:3 says..................
"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word."

Jesus' two natures are not "mixed together" as some teach which is called Eutychianism, nor are they combined into a new God-man nature as some others claim which is Monophysitism. They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.

Now let me be clear for you. Mormons are not Christians. They are a cult! You seem to be determined for some reason to show that Mormonish and Protestant Christians are the same thing. I am amazed that you have not understood that YOUR Catholic religion
actually has more in common with the Catholic religion than Protestantism.

They believe in Apostolic succession just as do YOU.
They believe in baptism for salvation just as do YOU.
They believe in child baptism just as do YOU.

Mormon and Roman Catholic Churches teach a false physical presence of Jesus on earth before his second coming.

The Mormon Church teaches that Jesus Christ was born twice. His first birth was in Heaven by sex between God the Father and God the Mother. He is said to be "the first born in the preexistence" as a spirit being. This is called his birth in the "preexistence." Thus, he is the son of God in the spirit. His second birth is on earth and is said to be a virgin birth. However, their definition does not qualify as "virgin."

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Jesus could not have been born from an unclean sinful vessel. Therefore, the mother of Jesus must have been sinless and a continual virgin. Therefore they say that she never had sex with her husband Joseph. This teaching lessens Jesus' human heritage and denies the existence of Jesus' human family members (his brothers and sisters). It also defines a different mother.

Now, if you wish to continue your path of deception and erroneous opinions, I will be more than happy to accommodate you. I would however suggest to you that you do some more home work on your opinion.

Have a wonderful day my friend and than you for your postings as it allow me to get of the Word of God to all who are reading this stuff.

 

[Major1]

Awesome, you confess Mary as Mother of God.

I would say that you are probably the only person to see that in that post.

I would call that being "Agenda Blind"

 

[Major1]

Please do not twist my words.

Mary carried the incarnate Jesus in her womb by the power of the Holy Spirit. Mary has not eternally existed, nor is she the eternal mother of God, nor was she an eternal virgin, nor was she immaculately conceived, nor was she without sin, nor was she assumed into Heaven. Nowhere in the Bible is Mary identified as the "Mother of God".

I reject Roman Catholic false doctrines that teach that Mary is anything apart from what the Bible teaches she is, that is, a sinner blessed of God, chosen by God, and saved by His grace alone, by faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone.

Romans 3:23.........
"ALL have sinned and come short of the approval of God".

Romans 5:12...........
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned".

That is called in Bible theology.........."Federal Headship" and it is pretty clear that the Catholic Church has ripped these pages out of the Bible.

 

[Major1]

Please do not twist my words.

Mary carried the incarnate Jesus in her womb by the power of the Holy Spirit. Mary has not eternally existed, nor is she the eternal mother of God, nor was she an eternal virgin, nor was she immaculately conceived, nor was she without sin, nor was she assumed into Heaven. Nowhere in the Bible is Mary identified as the "Mother of God".

I reject Roman Catholic false doctrines that teach that Mary is anything apart from what the Bible teaches she is, that is, a sinner blessed of God, chosen by God, and saved by His grace alone, by faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone.

Personally I reject the Roman Catholic theology because it is not Biblical.

 

[Major1]

Awesome, you confess Mary as Mother of God.

My comments are always on the Biblical aspects and not Church doctrine neither the traditions of men when those traditions are non-Biblical.

It is biblical to say that Mary was the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ during His incarnation on the earth. That is exactly what she was. However, Catholics believe it is not enough to say that Mary was the mother of Jesus. Pope John Paul II, in a speech in 1996, encouraged people.............
“not only to invoke the Blessed Virgin as the Mother of Jesus, but also to recognize her as Mother of God” (L'Osservatore Romano, 4 December 1996, p. 11).

That is not a biblical teaching. The Lord God Almighty has no mother, since He has no beginning and no end.

 

[concretecamper]

I would say also that your attempt to say that Mormons are Christians is a very poor and impossible task.

I would never try to prove Mormon are Christians

I do not know why you would say that I have........."divided the persons (Divine and humam) of Christ."
Neither do I understand why you would be challenging me on the position of Jesus Christ as the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

I am challenging you because by if you call Mary the Mother of Jesus and do not call her the Mother of God you are dividing the 2 Natures. This is a heresy.

Let me be very clear here for you. Your comment is wrong and your understanding of Scriptural Doctrine is suspect. I really do not know where you are coming from. My dear friend, Jesus has two distinct natures: He is both divine and human. Jesus is the Word who was God and was with God and was made flesh. That is NOT my opinion but in fact is the Word of God.

John 1:1..................
"In the beginning was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God and the Word was God".

Verse 14.............
"And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld His glory, the glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth".

This means that in the single person of Jesus he has both a human and divine nature, God and man. He is the God-Man, the Lord Jesus Christ.

The divine nature was not changed when the Word became flesh as I posted for YOU in John 1:1 & 14. Instead, the Word was joined with humanity as seen in Col. 2:9..........
"For in Him, (Christ) dwelleth ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD BODILY".

Jesus' divine nature was not altered. Also, Jesus is not merely a man who "had God within Him," nor is he a man who "manifested the God principle." He is God in flesh, second person of the Trinity.

Hebrews 1:3 says..................
"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word."

Jesus' two natures are not "mixed together" as some teach which is called Eutychianism, nor are they combined into a new God-man nature as some others claim which is Monophysitism. They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.

Let me be clear to you. This discussion is not whether Jesus has 2 natures. So bible quote away, it will not solve anything. The Church has always taught He does.

Jesus' two natures are not "mixed together" as some teach which is called Eutychianism, nor are they combined into a new God-man nature as some others claim which is Monophysitism. They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union.

Chalcedon

"We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach people to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; (ἐν δύο φύσεσιν ἀσυγχύτως, ἀτρέπτως, ἀδιαιρέτως, ἀχωρίστως – in duabus naturis inconfuse, immutabiliter, indivise, inseparabiliter) the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person (prosopon) and one Subsistence (hypostasis), not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεόν), the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us."

If you do not confess Mary as Mother of God you do not belief in Hypostasis. You either do not know what hypostasis is or you have subscribed to some sort of heresy.

Now let me be clear for you. Mormons are not Christians. They are a cult! You seem to be determined for some reason to show that Mormonish and Protestant Christians are the same thing. I am amazed that you have not understood that YOUR Catholic religion
actually has more in common with the Catholic religion than Protestantism.

Mormons hold to heretical beliefs and so do those who divide the 2 Natures of Christ as you are doing. So is one heresy worse than the other? Does one heresy make you a non Christian and the other doesn't?

I
Have a wonderful day my friend and than you for your postings as it allow me to get of the Word of God to all who are reading this stuff.

Have a wonderful day too. The only thing you have proved is ancient heresies (among them Nestorianism) are still around today.

 

[Major1]

I would never try to prove Mormon are Christians


I am challenging you because by
I would never try to prove Mormon are Christians




Let me be clear to you. This discussion is not whether Jesus has 2 natures. So bible quote away, it will not solve anything. The Church has always taught He does.



Chalcedon

"We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach people to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; (ἐν δύο φύσεσιν ἀσυγχύτως, ἀτρέπτως, ἀδιαιρέτως, ἀχωρίστως – in duabus naturis inconfuse, immutabiliter, indivise, inseparabiliter) the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person (prosopon) and one Subsistence (hypostasis), not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεόν), the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us."

If you do not confess Mary as Mother of God you do not belief in Hypostasis. You either do not know what hypostasis is or you have subscribed to some sort of heresy.



Mormons hold to heretical beliefs and so do those who divide the 2 Natures of Christ as you are doing. So is one heresy worse than the other? Does one heresy make you a non Christian and the other doesn't?



Have a wonderful day too. The only thing you have proved is ancient heresies are still around today.

You said...........
"I would never try to prove Mormons are Christians.

Wrong!. You say you are NOT trying to show Mormons as Christians but that is exactly what you have been doing.


You said..............
"if you call Mary the Mother of Jesus and do not call her the Mother of God you are dividing the 2 Natures. This is a heresy.

Wrong! It is correct Bible exegesis. The Bible documents that Mary became the mother of Jesus and clearly teaches that Jesus is God, it never states, or even implies, that Mary was (or is) the “Mother of God.” The idea that Mary is the mother of God is totally a Catholic traditional teacheing.

There is not a single verse in the Bible that describes Mary as the “Mother of God.” In fact, none of the inspired writers of either the Old or New Testament gave even a hint that she should be regarded as such. This idea is based purely on human tradition from the RCC. the New Testament makes it very clear Who became flesh. It was God Who took on the form of a man (John 1:14) and was born of a woman (Galatians 4:4). The woman did not become “divine” in order to conceive the Son of God. The Bible mentions Mary as the mother of Jesus, but never as the “Mother of God”.

On top of that, you are pushing your Catholic agenda and you are not supporting any of your opinion with Bible Scripture. So then your opinion remain just that, YOUR opinions.

My dear friend.....In Christian theology, a hypostasis or person is one of the three persons of the Trinity. It has nothing to do with Mary or her nature.

You said...............
"Mormons hold to heretical beliefs and so do those who divide the 2 Natures of Christ as you are doing".

You seem to be saying that Jesus Christ has ONE Nature because you are condemning me for saying that He has TWO. Will you please post ONE Bible Scripture to support what you are saying. JUST ONE!!!

IF you are saying that then you are standing against your own Catholic doctrine which says............
"That the whole and only person of Christ is the Logos, a divine person. Who has two natures: divine and human."

 

[concretecamper]

You said...........
"I would never try to prove Mormons are Christians.

Wrong!. You say you are NOT trying to show Mormons as Christians but that is exactly what you have been doing.


You said..............
"if you call Mary the Mother of Jesus and do not call her the Mother of God you are dividing the 2 Natures. This is a heresy.

Wrong! It is correct Bible exegesis. The Bible documents that Mary became the mother of Jesus and clearly teaches that Jesus is God, it never states, or even implies, that Mary was (or is) the “Mother of God.” The idea that Mary is the mother of God is totally a Catholic traditional teacheing.

There is not a single verse in the Bible that describes Mary as the “Mother of God.” In fact, none of the inspired writers of either the Old or New Testament gave even a hint that she should be regarded as such. This idea is based purely on human tradition from the RCC. the New Testament makes it very clear Who became flesh. It was God Who took on the form of a man (John 1:14) and was born of a woman (Galatians 4:4). The woman did not become “divine” in order to conceive the Son of God. The Bible mentions Mary as the mother of Jesus, but never as the “Mother of God”.

On top of that, you are pushing your Catholic agenda and you are not supporting any of your opinion with Bible Scripture. So then your opinion remain just that, YOUR opinions.

My dear friend.....In Christian theology, a hypostasis or person is one of the three persons of the Trinity. It has nothing to do with Mary or her nature.

You said...............
"Mormons hold to heretical beliefs and so do those who divide the 2 Natures of Christ as you are doing".

You seem to be saying that Jesus Christ has ONE Nature because you are condemning me for saying that He has TWO. Will you please post ONE Bible Scripture to support what you are saying. JUST ONE!!!

IF you are saying that then you are standing against your own Catholic doctrine which says............
"That the whole and only person of Christ is the Logos, a divine person. Who has two natures: divine and human."

One more time and then I am done.

I suggest you calm down and reread what I have posted. I never said or argued Christ doesn't have 2 Natures. In fact I agreed with it and said the Church has always taught it.

What is in debate is whether or not these 2 Nature can be separated. By calling Mary Mother of Jesus and professing she is not the Mother of God you are dividing these 2 Natures and that is Nestorianism...a heresy!!!

So you are getting all worked up that Mormons view God incorrectly and I am pointing out to you that SO ARE YOU!

 

[Major1]

One more time and then I am done.

I suggest you calm down and reread what I have posted. I never said or argued Christ doesn't have 2 Natures. In fact I agreed with it and said the Church has always taught it.

What is in debate is whether or not these 2 Nature can be separated. By calling Mary Mother of Jesus and professing she is not the Mother of God you are dividing these 2 Natures and that is Nestorianism...a heresy!!!

Why would you think that I am anything but calm????

I am too old to get excited. (Ask my wife).

Nestorianism is based on the belief put forth by Nestorius that emphasized the disunity of the human and divine natures of Christ. According to the Nestorians, Christ essentially exists as two persons sharing one body.

Again my dear friend, that is not Biblical at all. The Bible states that Christ is fully God and fully man in one indivisible Person. God the Son, Jesus Christ, took on a human nature yet remained fully God at the same time. Jesus always had been God,but at the Incarnation Jesus also became a human being.

Now I thin we can finish this debate very easily by agreeing that one isn’t Nestorian unless one believes in Christ having two separate persons.

I have already stated by Biblical position on this so I believe we can go on to something else besides your 2 Natures theology being both Mormon and Protestant.

Rejecting Mary as the Mother of God does not mean that a person believes Jesus does not have 2 natures.

The Son’s existence did not begin with His conception in Mary’s womb. He was alive in eternity, and, at the right time in history, He became flesh.

Mary came into a time-bound world long after the creation of the Universe. She, like all human beings, was not eternal. She was not divine, not “from everlasting to everlasting”. She could not have provided an eternal nature to her Son for He is Diety. He is the “eternally blessed God” (Romans 9:5).

 

[Monksailor]

You said............
"One thing I have learned with online forums , esp Christian ones, is that there are many, many evil people who ask questions NOT at all with the intent of learning or teaching but rather to waste the other's time and good will and to try to further their own personal agenda which they have all prepared for copy and pasting-minimal time investment for maximum waste of time of a well-meaning, and loving Christian."

You are absolutely correct my brother!

My experience is that the ones you are referring to do not want to learn or grow theologically but instead want to argue their religion to you instead of growing in Christ and His knowledge.

Every single time it will allays be......
"You did not answer my question", when the truth is that there was an answer given but they did not like it so they reject it.

It is also my experience that these people we are talking about will sooner or later become very personal and confrontational because they know they are proven wrong Biblically so they have no recourse but to bully others into submission or cause them to flee the conversation.

It is at this time or even sooner that we must move on having seen or discovered the waste. Oh, of course realizing that we are gone and won't shed the light of truth any more on their deception they will feel em bolstered and make ridiculous allegations knowing we won't respond but everyone who you would have possibly influenced can clearly see their cowardness as they do this. It will only serve to shine light on the Truth they are trying to hide. Be at peace knowing that God IS in control. By the way, when I look back at my posts on a certain thread and I see a bunch of multiple !!! or ???? Or esp if I ever said, "You are WRONG!" I cannot say that I wasn't upset. The one who loves to fight and hurt people knows ways, hopefully better than a Christian, to get his enemies off balance or off their square. We know as Christians that arguing very long usually comes to no good, hence Titus 3:9, I believe. Those who wish to engage in argument and make no immediate concessions or recognitions of our point are not interested in or readied by God to hear the truth; ONLY in trying to destroy it and that is a waste of time. Move on.

 

[Major1]

It is at this time or even sooner that we must move on having seen or discovered the waste. Oh, of course realizing that we are gone and won't shed the light of truth any more on their deception they will feel em bolstered and make ridiculous allegations knowing we won't respond but everyone who you would have possibly influenced can clearly see their cowardness as they do this. It will only serve to shine light on the Truth they are trying to hide. Be at peace knowing that God IS in control. By the way, when I look back at my posts on a certain thread and I see a bunch of multiple !!! or ???? Or esp if I ever said, "You are WRONG!" I cannot say that I wasn't upset. The one who loves to fight and hurt people knows ways, hopefully better than a Christian, to get his enemies off balance or off their square. We know as Christians that arguing very long usually comes to no good, hence Titus 3:9, I believe. Those who wish to engage in argument and make no immediate concessions or recognitions of our point are not interested in or readied by God to hear the truth; ONLY in trying to destroy it and that is a waste of time. Move on.

You are absolutely correct.

My experience on Christian web sites, there is very little passion for growth and knowledge.

I do not say that to infer I am full of wisdom or Bible knowledge so please do not misunderstand me.
It is just that MOST all the conversations revolve around those who have a personal agenda and no matter how many Bible verse they are shown, they will not accept the Word of God over their agendas.

 

[Amazing Horse]

Mormon is Mormon
Christian is Christian
Amazing horse is Amazing horse

But
Could person who call himself Mormon be saved ? Yes
Could person who call himself christian be not saved ? Yes

As long as you read this 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 , and put faith in finished job of Jesus Christ , then you will be saved because you are sealed with Holy Spirit the moment you believe Ephesians 1:13-14 .

Well could that person who is sealed by Holy Spirit do bad works or believe in vain by being deceived ? Yes

He can ask Holy Spirit to open his eyes and show him truth , but if he want to be ignorant then he will be ignorant it's his choice .

So if saved person after few years become atheist , is he saved ? Yes
Same if saved person become Mormon , is he saved ? Yes

But if you don't follow Christ , then you don't do his will.
Prodigal son blow away all his inheritance ( like our reward in heaven ) but he never stopped being son of his father ( like we can't be unborn after being born again John 3:3) . So it might be that Mormons will just suffer loss of rewards in heaven for not doing will of Jesus (1 Corinthians 3:15 ) .