More Sin in the Fertility Clinic

[Ninja Turtles]

Thinking back to the masturbation threads, would donating your sperm be considered a sin?

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

As with most things it depends who you ask. Are you asking me? My answer is yes, that would be sinful. Because (a) masturbation is sinful and (b) IVF is sinful.

Peace,
Rob

 

[Miss Shelby]

Thinking back to the masturbation threads, would donating your sperm be considered a sin?

Probably according to Catholic teaching.

Someone in the Catholic forum asked how a man would go about getting his sperm tested for fertility reasons without using self induction measures , and I *think* there was an answer for that... but I can't remember what it was.

Michelle

 

[Seeking...]

Probably according to Catholic teaching.

Someone in the Catholic forum asked how a man would go about getting his sperm tested for fertility reasons without using self induction measures , and I *think* there was an answer for that... but I can't remember what it was.

Michelle

He probably had his wife *help* him...

 

[Miss Shelby]

He probably had his wife *help* him...

That might have been it, but spilling the seed is considered sinful, too. Anyways, I can't remember what the answer was.

Michelle

 

[Dark_Lite]

Punctured condoms wrah!

 

[flicka]

Often men have to provide a sample to their doctor and I'd hate to think they would be struggling with sin vs. proper health care.

 

[charmtrap]

IVF is sinful.

Apologies if this has been answered before, but what is the (I assume) biblical justification for this?

 

[Ninja Turtles]

Often men have to provide a sample to their doctor and I'd hate to think they would be struggling with sin vs. proper health care.

They compromise they just cry like Jimmy Swaggert while doing it.
​

 

[Miss Shelby]

Punctured condoms wrah!

lol that was it!

 

[Miss Shelby]

Apologies if this has been answered before, but what is the (I assume) biblical justification for this?

Catholic theology isn't restricted to Biblical evidence for support of it's claims.

One reason, though, off the top, is often IVF leads to multiple fetuses being conceived and many resort to 'selective reduction'... IOW they abort the smaller ones to save the larger. That would be seen as sinful, so I don't know why any serious Catholic would want to chance it.

Michelle

 

[Miss Shelby]

Often men have to provide a sample to their doctor and I'd hate to think they would be struggling with sin vs. proper health care.

For purposes of fertility testing. What other reason would they have to provide a sperm sample to their doctor for testing? DNA?

In any event, they wouldn't need to struggle with their sin v proper health care if they spoke to their priest about it first. Usually, if it's a pertinent health issue, it changes the motive for the sinful act rendering it not sinful.

Michelle

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Apologies if this has been answered before, but what is the (I assume) biblical justification for this?

Certainly.

[BIBLE]Genesis 2:24[/BIBLE]

The sexual act, according to Catholic theology, ought to be both unitive and procreative. The married relationship reflects (albeit infinitely lesser) the relationship between God and humanity. Therefore, to pervert the purpose and natural act of sexuality is to blaspheme against God and also to use sexuality to an end contrary to the divine command.

[BIBLE]Genesis 38:9-10[/BIBLE]

Thus it is believed that masturbation is sinful also, because not only is it selfish and a perversion of the purpose of divinely instituted sexuality, it also (for males) deliberately "spills the seed", which from the above passage can be seen to be sinful. This is, of course, related to the procreative and unitive purposes of sexuality-masturbation acheives meither of these.

[BIBLE]Exodus 20:13[/BIBLE]

[BIBLE]Jeremiah 1:5[/BIBLE]

Many embryos are usually produced, and the "undesirable" are murdered.

Peace,
Rob

 

[Green Man]

As with most things it depends who you ask. Are you asking me? My answer is yes, that would be sinful. Because (a) masturbation is sinful and (b) IVF is sinful.

Peace,
Rob

Several years ago,both my wife and I underwent testing to ascertain whether or not either of us had medical reasons for not being able to get her pregnant.While masturbation may not be the only to test the male,it certainly is the easiest most efficient method.Shortly after she was tested,she became pregnant.Our son is now four and a half years old.How can any of this be considered sinful?

 

[invisible trousers]

The sexual act, according to Catholic theology, ought to be both unitive and procreative. The married relationship reflects (albeit infinitely lesser) the relationship between God and humanity. Therefore, to pervert the purpose and natural act of sexuality is to blaspheme against God and also to use sexuality to an end contrary to the divine command.

How on earth did you pull "contraceptives are bad" from that?! That verse has absolutely nothing to do with sex and isn't a divine command in any sense of the words. Why would God make sex so pleasurable but yet not allow it whenever you don't want kids? It doesn't make sense to me that God would give us something but only to tempt us with it.

[BIBLE]Genesis 38:9-10[/BIBLE]

Thus it is believed that masturbation is sinful also, because not only is it selfish and a perversion of the purpose of divinely instituted sexuality, it also (for males) deliberately "spills the seed", which from the above passage can be seen to be sinful. This is, of course, related to the procreative and unitive purposes of sexuality-masturbation acheives meither of these.

Have you bothered to look at the context of that verse and how it relates to the story of Onan? Doesn't look like it.

Many embryos are usually produced, and the "undesirable" are murdered.

That Jeremiah verse has absolutely nothing to do with sex.


Gah. Nocturnal emissions are sins too I take it?

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Invisible Trousers-I was asked if there was Scriptural support for Catholic teaching on these matters--I provided references to that Scripture. I'm not arguing, merely stating what the Church teaches.

How on earth did you pull "contraceptives are bad" from that?! That verse has absolutely nothing to do with sex and isn't a divine command in any sense of the words. Why would God make sex so pleasurable but yet not allow it whenever you don't want kids? It doesn't make sense to me that God would give us something but only to tempt us with it.

It is believed that marriage is for procreation and for union. It is also believed that sexuality should be expressed in totally self-giving sexual intercourse between a man and a woman within Holy Matrimony. The two become "one flesh". Artificial contraception removes both the unitive (because it is not totally self-giving) and the procreative (because it closes the sexual act to the gift of childbearing).

Without meaning to offend, I honestly don't believe that your argument about God "tempting us with sex" has any merit whatsoever. I can see why you would say this...but please think about what you're saying:It's more pleasurable to have sex whenever you want so that must be the right thing to do. Orgies, inappropriate contentography, gluttony and laziness are pleasurable...so they're fine?

Sex is good, yes. But I hope that you would agree that Scripture would add that sex has a purpose and we ought not indulge our perversions of God's good things. Homosexuals, zoophiles, peadophiles and a great manner of sexually troubled persons, as well as those who do not desire marriage, also have sexual urges. Ought they be indulged simply because God has created sexuality, therfore humanity is supposedly unable to use it for evil? God created food, but humanity is able to starve others and gorge themselves, to worship food, to mistreat their healths and to sacrifice to idols...but God created food, so it cannot be used for evil.

Genesis 9:7 says "Go forth and multiply" not "Go forth and enjoy yourselves...oh, and play safe!"

Have you bothered to look at the context of that verse and how it relates to the story of Onan? Doesn't look like it.

The context of Onan's sin would seem to consist of:

[BIBLE]Genesis 38:6-10[/BIBLE]

So God was displeased that Onan had failed to bring forth children for his dead brother's wife. I knew that. However, I do not think the above passage is clear about what Onan's sin was:disobedience to his father, dishonouring his brother or spilling his seed. I'm not necessarily saying it must be the latter, however, and if any biblical scholars present can demonstarte why this is not the case I will gladly retract my use of this passage to back up my stance againts masturbation and artificial contraception. However, my stance shall remain the same.

That Jeremiah verse has absolutely nothing to do with sex.

Indeed it does not. Charmtrap quoted me as saying "IVF is sinful" and asked for biblical support for this position. IVF involves masturbation, the removal of the unitive nature of the sexual act and killing embryos that are not desired in many cases. The quote from Jeremiah was to demonstrate from the Bible that God knows and humans from before birth. Combined with the Commandment of the Decalogue (Exdous chapter 20), this was a demonstration of why abortion is sinful scripturally.

Gah. Nocturnal emissions are sins too I take it?

One cannot sin without intention. Nocturnal emissions do not involve intention for most, and cannot be sinful. It's like saying murder is sinful therefore if you, through no fault of your own whatsoever, were to have an accident that led to the death of another you have commited murder. It's preposterous.

Peace and grace,
Rob

 

[Ninja Turtles]

In any event, they wouldn't need to struggle with their sin v proper health care if they spoke to their priest about it first. Usually, if it's a pertinent health issue, it changes the motive for the sinful act rendering it not sinful.

This statement goes back to another thread I started awhile back. What makes something a sin? The action or the thought behind the action?

 

[FadingWhispers3]

This statement goes back to another thread I started awhile back. What makes something a sin? The action or the thought behind the action?

Let us say that bad intentions always are sin no matter what action it is paired with whereas some actions may be sin even if there is no bad intent. That is one way to explain why Job offered sacrifices for his sons for sins they may have unknowingly done. If it were not possible to sin unknowingly, then there would be no need for Job to offer these sacrifices. Unless he assumed wrongly that it was possible although truely not. If someone does something wrong without knowing that it is wrong, the thought behind it is not bad. Unfortunately harmful effects may result even so.

 

[Chrysalis Kat]

So is it better to do the wrong thing for all the right reasons or to do the right thing for all the wrong reasons?
Elizabeth Taylor – National Velvet

 

[Ninja Turtles]

I just think it's funny that this thread got more responses than my Sudan thread. I can only one word can describe this: obsession.