Orthodoxy cosigns those outside of the Church to the Mercy of God. It is those of us in the Church that will have a greater judgement, because we ought to have known better.
Jeff the Finn
Jeff the Finn
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
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- Thread starter lookinguptoo
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lookinguptoo said:
When Christ turned water to wine, he didn't create the wine, but he changed the water. He asked the people to bring the water to him, although of course He could have just created from nothing or brough the water Himself. He asked people to participate in the miracle to the miniscule part they were able, and then did the rest. Had they refused to bring the water, He wouldn't have done it for them.
When Christ raised Lazarus, He first asked the people to move the stone. He could have done it Himself, much more easily than raising the dead, but He asked people to do what they could, and then He did the rest.
This is called synergy, man and God cooperate in the process of salvation. It doesn't mean equal parts, any more than moving a stone is equal to raising the dead, but it does mean we must do our part. We have to strive to be perfect, and do our best, and trust in God to do the rest and give us grace to make us perfect. We have to cooperate with His grace though, we can't just sit and tell Him, you do it.
No amount of good works or being good can save us, we can only be saved by the Blood of Christ, as we confess our sins, are regenerated in Baptism, and receive life in Communion. Only christ can save us. but we must do our part, we can't receive the Sacraments and go on sinning without repentance. We can't stop sinning without the grace of God, but we must cooperate with God's grace to repent of our sins and lead a Christian life, we must allow Him to save us.
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Well, this has certainly been an interesting discussion and I think I fairly well understand Orthodoxy now, not in complete detail, but the overall idea, and I want to thank every one for being so kind to answer my questions. Jeffthefinn, your answer was very kindly put and from what you said I think I understand the Orthodox position. From others answers I also understand the Orthodox concept of salvation. It is late here where I am so I am going to close but I want to thank everyone again for answering my questions.
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