more ice in Antarctica

[Fantine]

Antarctic and arctic ice are cyclical. Remember Al Gore's prediction about no more Arctic ice. That was supposed to happen decades ago. It didn't.

This stuff is all cyclical. The climate changes. It always has. There used to be forest in the Sahara, and jungle in Siberia. And glaciers covered over half the US. Frankly, it looks like the glaciers are coming back right now.

Here is a youtube playlist on the subject that is backed by so much science it gets mind numbing after a while:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL25om63gd1VoP7m5VLuVcLOwKh-FB7Rxp

It is important to note that all human activity produces CO2 and it is a necessary element for life to exist. It can be deadly in the same way water, necessary for life, can drown you. But the whole AGW/climate change thingee was fabricated as a tool to, once people are convinced it's real, cause them to give their rulers the power to control any aspect of our life that produces CO2.

That means EVERYTHING.

And that's the goal. Don't fall for it. Educate yourself. Trust the science, not the fake science. Don't trust politicians and 17 year old girls.

I've heard that this is just a cycle that will someday morph into another cycle...shrug.

But if a cycle is creating floods, hurricanes, forest fires, tsunamis, droughts, famines, etc. around the world, is the right response saying, "It's just a cycle. We can sit it out?"

Of course not. The right response is doing what we can to protect our world, especially the most vulnerable.

The question is whether positive human activity--alternative energy, conservation--will help reverse these trends. If it does, we should do it--no matter what caused the cycle we are in.

 

[rambot]

Kinda like Al Gore or Bill Nye (who I loved on Almost Live, BTW). How about Tony Heller? Do you believe him? How about any of these guys: The 10 Most-Respected Global Warming Skeptics
Or the five on this list: The Top 15 Climate-Change Scientists: Consensus & Skeptics

And here is Bjorn: Bjørn Lomborg - Wikipedia

I think you need to ask yourself, "What, exactly, is a scientist?" I think this definition from the Science council might sum it up best:


Was I being a scientist when I experimented with changing the course of a creek on my property based on the plants and land gradient? Was I being a scientist when I experimented with different types of seed and food to attract specific birds to my property? Would my opinion on either of those things make me a person who's opinion may carry a little weight on those subjects compared to someone that has never considered them?

1. You appear to think a scientist Is a scientist and therefore of all equal learning and respect on any topic of science
Come on. Y
know enough to not rely on the opinion of an architect in regards to the blood tests results your oncologist sent you.
Why rely on a physicist on the topic of global warming?
2.Did you notice that several members of your list don't even call themselves skeptical of the science they are just skeptical of the approach being take.
3.every graduating medical class has a doctor who just barely scraped by to get in. People who barely get it. Skeptics leech on to that minority OR thepeople who haven't ACTUALLY done any research or study. What percent of CLIMATE scientist dispute the main message ...somrthhign like under 1%.
And I'm supposed to believe a retired, bitter septuagenarian with no training or schooling in the field?


4.

Edit: A takeaway from the list of global warming skeptics above is something I've embraced for quite a while: I'm in good company. Mine is not a "fringe nutjob" perspective. Quite the opposite

That is factually inaccurate and relies on you claiming that tens of thousands of people are incompetent liars instead of the possibility that the handful of skeptics are just wrong.
I simply cannot believe that you have looked at your sources with a critical eye. I think it was a tioy Heller video and I watched and it was laughably easy, as someone with no climate background but just a jr high teacher who knows how to read and evaluate the quality of a graph or chart.

FWIW, my personal favorite is Tony Heller. He's been threatened with being cancelled by Youtube so he now also has a newtube account, just in case. Think of it as a 1984 kind of thing.

 

[prosperity4all]

Confirms Hottest Temperature Ever Recorded in the Arctic 2020

Hottest Temperature Ever Recorded in the Arctic | Smart News | Smithsonian Magazine


Arctic heat record is like Mediterranean


Alarming Arctic Study, Accelerating The EV Transition, And The Top 10 Sustainability Stories Of 2021

 

[Occams Barber]

Confirms Hottest Temperature Ever Recorded in the Arctic 2020

Hottest Temperature Ever Recorded in the Arctic | Smart News | Smithsonian Magazine


Arctic heat record is like Mediterranean


Alarming Arctic Study, Accelerating The EV Transition, And The Top 10 Sustainability Stories Of 2021

Is there any ice left up there?

OB

 

[essentialsaltes]

Is there any ice left up there?

OB

Significantly less than usual, but not none.

Average Arctic sea ice extent for December 2021 was 12.19 million square kilometers (4.71 million square miles), which ranked thirteenth lowest in the satellite record

But you can probably expect the denialists to focus on the last two points on the graph to demonstrate the striking rise of Arctic ice:

The map of temperature anomaly shows a big blob near Greenland was 6 degrees C (11 F) warmer than average for the entire month of December 2021.

 

[Occams Barber]

Significantly less than usual, but not none.

Average Arctic sea ice extent for December 2021 was 12.19 million square kilometers (4.71 million square miles), which ranked thirteenth lowest in the satellite record

But you can probably expect the denialists to focus on the last two points on the graph to demonstrate the striking rise of Arctic ice:

The map of temperature anomaly shows a big blob near Greenland was 6 degrees C (11 F) warmer than average for the entire month of December 2021.

When you run out let me know and I'll send some up.

I think we've still got a bit left in Antarctica.

OB

 

[loveofourlord]

more ice in Antarctica







is melting faster than ever


say Scientists




World’s Ice Is Melting Faster Than Ever, Scientists Say.

Ice is melting across the globe at a faster rate than before - CBBC Newsround

World’s Ice Is Melting 65 Percent Faster Than in 1990s


more ice in Greenland

is melting faster than at any time in past 12,000 years

Greenland's ice melting faster than at any time in past 12,000 years

more ice in Alaskan glaciers

melting 100 times faster than previously thought

Alaskan glaciers melting 100 times faster than previously thought









shouldn't we drain the oceans now?

by 1 centimeters per year

using solar powered desalination of seawater

then use solar power to pump

the freshwater in land where it is needed?

because 97 percent of the worlds water is salty ocean

water and not suitable for drinking.

ocean water volume is roughly 326 million cubic miles

(1.332 billion cubic kilometers),

according to a recent study from

the U.S. Geological Survey.

71 percent of Earth is covered in salty water.





2 billion people lack safe drinking water at home, more than twice as many lack safe sanitation

2 billion people lack safe drinking water at home



money

2 billion potential customers just waiting for us to supply them clean water

even if we charge $1 per year that would be $2 billion per year

if we charge $10 per year that would be $20 billion per year

if we charge $1 per week that would be $100 billion per year

$ 6 trillion



salt

we have to mine for a quarter of a billion tons of salt each year that we currently use.






pipeline

The world's longest pipeline is 2353 miles.

the Interprovincial Pipe Line Inc. installation,

which spans the North American continent from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada through Chicago to Montreal:

a distance of 3787km.





solar power

Approximately 12000 TW (terrawatts) of energy

reaches the Earth from the Sun.

That is 1200000000000000 joules per minute

More energy reaches the earth from the sun in one day

than the whole world uses in one year.

Solar is now cheapest electricity in history says IEA




water storage

water can be stored under the land in vast aquifers as deep as 30,000 feet and as wide 174,000 square-mile .

What is Groundwater? | Live Science

aquifers underground can hold volume of water 100 times greater then amount that can be held on the surface of the land.

the aquifers underneath the deserts were last filled with water over 5,000 years ago.









Deserts

Seen from space, the majority of the Earth's surface is covered by

oceans – that makes up 71% of the surface of the Earth,

with the remaining 29% for land.

what percentage of the Earth's land surface is desert?

Deserts actually make up 33%



Planting Trillions of Trees will Cancel Out Decades of CO2 Emission say Scientists

president says "we will plant Trillions of Trees now" because




fertilizer

human produce 200 million tons of sewage every year

we could make this in to fertilizer and use it to turn the deserts

in to rich agricultural land and wildlife habitats

If this is the usual thing talked about you know the difference between volume and surface? Yes you have some years with a TON of ice covering a large surface area, but the volume of ice is going down as the new ice is thinner, and goes away faster then the ice that's melted.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If this is the usual thing talked about you know the difference between volume and surface? Yes you have some years with a TON of ice covering a large surface area, but the volume of ice is going down as the new ice is thinner, and goes away faster then the ice that's melted.

I have not checked lately, but that may not be quite true about the Antarctic. But even so we still see clear signs of global warming. Antarctica had been gaining mass annually for quite some time. But due to AGW that gain slowed down and may have been reversed. Meanwhile the Greenland Ice cap has continually lost ice faster and faster so that the has been a net loss of ice for some time due to AGW.

About 15 to 20 years ago I was debating against AGW. One of the graphs that made me change my mind was similar to the one that @essentialsaltes posted. But where his is of surface area, this is of volume of Arctic sea ice. It is also broken down on a monthly basis:

The black line is the month of September. The volume of Arctic sea ice has gone down from 17,000 cubic kilometers to about 4,000 cubic kilometers. A few warm years in a row and we might have a totally ice free Arctic. It is clearly disappear more and more every year.

I will check up on the volume of Antarctic ice.

EDIT: Okay, I was off a bit on the Antarctic ice sheet. When measuring it is frequently divided into the West and East Antarctic ice sheets. The East Antarctic ice sheet had been gaining mass slowly. The west one has been losing it constantly. But now even the East Antarctic ice sheet is losing mass and the total has always been one of a loss in mass:

 

[Lost4words]

Surely, if the ice is melting fast in Antarctica, wont that mean that soon there will be a big gap in the 'ice wall' and all the sea water will drain off of the earth?

 

[loveofourlord]

Surely, if the ice is melting fast in Antarctica, wont that mean that soon there will be a big gap in the 'ice wall' and all the sea water will drain off of the earth?

ouch did not think of that :> Maybe we can finally get the flatearthers to fear it :>

 

[loveofourlord]

I have not checked lately, but that may not be quite true about the Antarctic. But even so we still see clear signs of global warming. Antarctica had been gaining mass annually for quite some time. But due to AGW that gain slowed down and may have been reversed. Meanwhile the Greenland Ice cap has continually lost ice faster and faster so that the has been a net loss of ice for some time due to AGW.

About 15 to 20 years ago I was debating against AGW. One of the graphs that made me change my mind was similar to the one that @essentialsaltes posted. But where his is of surface area, this is of volume of Arctic sea ice. It is also broken down on a monthly basis:

The black line is the month of September. The volume of Arctic sea ice has gone down from 17,000 cubic kilometers to about 4,000 cubic kilometers. A few warm years in a row and we might have a totally ice free Arctic. It is clearly disappear more and more every year.

I will check up on the volume of Antarctic ice.

EDIT: Okay, I was off a bit on the Antarctic ice sheet. When measuring it is frequently divided into the West and East Antarctic ice sheets. The East Antarctic ice sheet had been gaining mass slowly. The west one has been losing it constantly. But now even the East Antarctic ice sheet is losing mass and the total has always been one of a loss in mass:

yeah, when they say antarctic has gained ice, they mean the area of snow has increased, least that's what I had heard mentioned in videos responding to antarctic has been gaining.

Also don't forget one of the hottest temperatures in antarctic modern history was made last year.

 

[rjs330]

You mentioned looking up an 'almanac' to see the temperature changes over time for where I live. We don't have 'almanacs' but this is the official (Met Bureau) graph of temperature change for New South Wales (my state) between 1910 and 2020.

It shows the yearly temperature differences (anomaly) compared to a baseline average of the 30 years from 1961 to 1990. As you can see - temperatures are going up. The results are similar for most parts of the country.

View attachment 295083
OB

Wait a minute. If you took that chart and determined the average temperatures you would find up until around 1995 or so the average temperature was fairly low. And afterwards it climbed higher but still relatively little over all.

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

Wait a minute. If you took that chart and determined the average temperatures you would find up until around 1995 or so the average temperature was fairly low. And afterwards it climbed higher but still relatively little over all.

Go back to graph reading 101 or even remedial. what straight line could you draw that would be closest to each of the yearly values. Yes the average yearly temperature was lower in the past and even you noticed the obvious change.
Oh, by the way, if you haven't heard, climate change is slow, but occurring at a much faster rate than historically.

 

[Occams Barber]

Wait a minute. If you took that chart and determined the average temperatures you would find up until around 1995 or so the average temperature was fairly low. And afterwards it climbed higher but still relatively little over all.

You may be misunderstanding the graph. I added the explanation below in #post 92. Since the horizontal zero line is a 30 year average and the yearly anomalies are based on the yearly average, I have no idea what else you think needs averaging.

OB

The vertical axis is measured off in 0.5 degree steps starting at -2 degrees below average and going up to 2 degrees above average. 'Average' (0 degrees) is the 30 year average temperature from 1961 to 1990.

If you look at the column for 2020, on the right, the temperature was almost 1 degree above average.

The 2019 column shows the temperature was almost 2 degrees above average. (The actual figures are 2020 = 0.95 deg above av, 2019 = 1.89 deg. above av)

(I've put a link below to the DIY graphs for any Australian viewer who wants to look at their state).
Climate change and variability: Tracker: Australian timeseries graphs (bom.gov.au)

 

[Occams Barber]

Here's a copy of the graph since its now a fair way back - OB

 

[Subduction Zone]

Wait a minute. If you took that chart and determined the average temperatures you would find up until around 1995 or so the average temperature was fairly low. And afterwards it climbed higher but still relatively little over all.

Yes, AGW is a very slow process. Don't get your "facts" on AGW from Al Gore. He was correct that it is a huge problem. He was wrong about how soon it would hit.

By the way, even if we stopped all excess carbon production today the Earth would still warm for over a hundred years. But if we keep adding it will heat up faster and faster and top out at an even higher temperature.


AGW is not all that hard to understand. It is easy to demonstrate how carbon dioxide acts as a blanket. If you put too many blankets on at night you do not immediately get hot. But you are apt to wake up in the middle of the night sweating and throwing all of the blankets off. When it comes to the atmosphere we do not have that option.

 

[rjs330]

Man isn't killing the planet. The cli.atw changes as it always has. It isn't catastrophic.and it isn't us that's doing it.

Man-Made Global Warming is a Hoax!

The sea ice has melted before and didn't cause great harm and kill everyone. And it didn't happen cause there was too much CO2 in the atmosphere from man.

Relax people. We are not all going to die from global warming. It's not catastrophic. We do t only have a few years left to do something.

Let's take our time and do things well. Cause one thing we do know is if we panic and start doing things crazy then all that does is create other problems. "We have to do something fast before it's too late" only leads to more problems and unforseen consequences.

There is enough science out there that shows CO2 produced by us is not the problem the catastrophic folks would have us believe.

Relax. It's be okay. It's not global warming that's going to do us in.

 

[loveofourlord]

Man isn't killing the planet. The cli.atw changes as it always has. It isn't catastrophic.and it isn't us that's doing it.

Man-Made Global Warming is a Hoax!

Right....heat domes and December tornado's happen all the time....wait. It's laughable that any of you can deny climate change after last year, some of the worst weather events and it's still a hoax....right.

 

[rjs330]

Right....heat domes and December tornado's happen all the time....wait. It's laughable that any of you can deny climate change after last year, some of the worst weather events and it's still a hoax....right.

We aren't having any significant weather events over what we've had in the past. It's not getting worse.

And I didn't say climate change isnt happening.

It's not caused by us and it's not catastrophic. That's the hoax. It's not that it's not happening. It's not as serious and and it's not our fault. Relax, we'll get through this okay. It's not a crisis and not an emergency. Let's take our time and do things right too make life better and cleaner. But let's not get all crazy and start demanding to do something now. Because that never works out well for us. We just mess it up and create a whole new set of problems.

 

[loveofourlord]

We aren't having any significant weather events over what we've had in the past. It's not getting worse.

And I didn't say climate change isnt happening.

It's not caused by us and it's not catastrophic. That's the hoax. It's not that it's not happening. It's not as serious and and it's not our fault. Relax, we'll get through this okay. It's not a crisis and not an emergency. Let's take our time and do things right too make life better and cleaner. But let's not get all crazy and start demanding to do something now. Because that never works out well for us. We just mess it up and create a whole new set of problems.

yeah.....December tondo's happen every year, and so common for those heat domes....stop denying reality and accept things are bad instead of playing the ostrich. it's disgusting that in a year climate changed destroyed towns and lives you can pretend it doesn't exist.