Morals

[raven1]

Today I was thinking there has to be a God or why else would morals be innate but I didnt feel that God is real overwhelming no more doubt feeling. I wonder if that will ever happen. Does it come back like that? Like full 100 percent to doubt about it faith that makes you not afraid anymore ever.

 

[flowerforever7]

If I understand what you're asking, you are wondering if there is ever a way to be 100% without doubt?

I think it is possible, but some doubt is natural. Even Jesus said if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you can move a mountain. (That implies your faith could be a whole lot bigger, but that even small faith can do big things.) There are plenty examples of people detailed in the Bible who expressed doubt at some point or another.

However, I do think some doubts are alleviated when we further research, I think that responsibility is ours. Jesus does reward faith. I think it is possible to have enough evidence to logically conclude that God exists. I recommend a really good book by Timothy Keller called The Reason for God. It goes over some major objections to Christianity. What I like about him as an author is that his responses are well thought out. Here are some other books / videos that are really good too, I don't necessary agree with every single thing in some of them, but valid points are made:

The Case for the Real Jesus - Lee Strobel
The Case for a Creator DVD - Lee Strobel
Everything is Spiritual video- Rob Bell
Evolution a Theory in Crisis - Michael Denton (This one is very textbook but lots of scientific info.)
New Proofs for the Existence of God - Robert J. Spitzer (very textbook lots of science info)
Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed DVD - Ben Stein

Here is a list of other books I haven't read but really want to that may be helpful:
On the Seventh Day: Forty Scientists explain why they believe in God - by John Ashton
Reasonable Faith - by William Craig Lane
Contending with Christianity's Critics: Answering new atheists and other objectors - by Paul Copan
Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for God from the Bible, History, Philosophy & Science -Mike Licona
There is a God: How the world's most notorious atheist changed his mind - Antony Flew
Signature in the Cell: DNA & evidence for intelligent design - Stephen C. Meyer
Darwin's Black Box: The biochemical challenge to evolution - Michael J. Behe

You can find videos on youtube for Case for a Creator, Everything is Spiritual & Expelled. You may want to check out Darwin's Dilemma - Stephen C. Meyer on youtube, along with excerpts from the video Icons of Evolution.

There is also a science theory called Neurophoton Consciousness Theory which talks about the physics of consciousness after physical death. Very compelling. You may be able to google it and find it.

Also, you may want to check out a document called The Dissent from Darwinism. The document is 20 pages deep of all Ph.D. holding scientists and mathematicians (hundreds and hundreds of names) who have formally expressed a departure from or serious skeptism toward Darwinian evolution (most likely macro evolution *changes from one species to another, rather than micro evolution *small often reversable changes within a species). You can check out the document here: Dissent from Darwin

www.apologeticspress.org is also a good site to check out.

Here is an article too: http://www.cogwriter.com/evolution.htm

Hope some of this helps. God bless.
_______________________
Acts 2:38 "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

 

[raven1]

Everything I read I dissect and doubt. So I don't know what is going on. Do I have the doubting disease or Am I just not a chosen one for faith. Earlier I was thinking about morals etc and how it meant God exists. Then I started thinking how maybe God created the big bang but how can a person create something that is not logical even more illogical than everything always existing. I have read Case for faith. Case for Christ. Mere Christianty. How afterlife has to exist. I was tear it apart because I haven't seen it and to just believe there is a heaven therefore a God without having seen it is so scary I just can't find a flawless way to believe I create what it's because I am scared. This is why I fear my soul is going to hell because God hasn't made my doubt go away.

 

[flowerforever7]

I don't believe you are ever going to find a flawless way to believe... you are human, unless you are God and know all things you are never going to know everything exactly. Because you are a human being there are some things you will not ever know or understand completely. You said the big bang is illogical. But I will point out that is your own human personal perception of it. I know questioning and reasoning is something us humans do, however, whose to say that the big bang is illogical? Maybe in your human perspective, which is limited it is. However, there may be a reality much more complex, deep and beyond your understanding or ability to ever understand that makes the big bang absolutely logical. Just because you believe it is illogical does that mean it is? I'm sure there are scientists out there who would disagree with you. We need to consider that there are factors which exist beyond the scope of our ability to understand, factors that exist beyond our experience of reality. After examining evidence I am convinced that there is a good case for intelligent design, more so than spontaneous generation. Part of OCD is pathological doubt. If you have OCD that is something major to consider regarding your particular issue with this. My best advice to you would be to come to terms with the fact that you are not ever going to have all the answers (enough to know things completely for yourself in all aspects); but you do have considerable evidence which (for me anyway points me in the direction of God). You mention being afraid of your soul going to hell, so you obviously do believe, and have vaild reasons for doing so. (If you didn't you wouldn't be afraid of your soul going to hell.) Look at that; hold on to the faith you have, pray for God to give you great understanding, faith and peace about your belief in Him. God bless.

_______________________
Acts 2:38 "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

 

[raven1]

I guess I was just showing how I counteract everything with doubt. Last night I was thinking about how is it possible God created something from nothing.
and who created God. It is just never ending doubt. I am so scared I wasn't chosen for faith. I fear hell because I think God might be there but belief gets less and less all the time.

 

[Paradoxum]

Doubt doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of faith. Sometimes doubt is required to really wrestle with real issues and so can eventually build a stronger faith, maybe even a different style of faith. A lack of doubt doesn't indicate stronger faith. The fact that you fear hell shows that you do still have faith.

God knows we all have our demons to fight (metaphorically). The questions you ask have been answered by people. Eg: God can create out of nothing because there is in fact something, Himself. Instead of thinking of God as separate from the universe, He can be thought of as the foundation of existence and that all things exist in and through Him. So in some sense the universe is 'inside' God.

 

[raven1]

I think all Christians have a tiny bit of doubt because they cannot know for certain God is there. I just think some people experience the doubt more if that makes sense. Whether OCD or chronic doubters. I just can't know if God will be merciful to us.These thoughts of how can God just exist or create stuff from nothing has just made it worse. I always tear down my faith with doubt but never fully lose it because of near death experiences. It just makes me fear I wasn't chosen for faith or makes my doubts greater that he doesn't exist when I struggle with doubt.

 

[Paradoxum]

Well I know that some doubt more than others. I know I doubt Christianity more than many Christians, but I am lucky that my OCD is very mild and doesn't affect what I think about too much. We live by faith that the God of Jesus Christ, the loving Father, exists and exemplified in the passion of Christ on the cross for the salvation of the world.

 

[CrossPilgrim]

Dear Raven,

It is human nature to doubt. We doubt simple truths we are told, so how much more the great truths of Jesus Christ.

The Christian walk is not one without doubt, but one of choosing faith over doubt. Look at Scripture. Even the so-called "super" saints stumbled some times.

18 John’s disciples told him about all these things. Calling two of them, 19 he sent them to the Lord to ask, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”
20 When the men came to Jesus, they said, “John the Baptist sent us to you to ask, ‘Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?’”

21 At that very time Jesus cured many who had diseases, sicknesses and evil spirits, and gave sight to many who were blind. 22 So he replied to the messengers, “Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy[a] are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. 23 Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”

24 After John’s messengers left, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed swayed by the wind? 25 If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear expensive clothes and indulge in luxury are in palaces. 26 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. 27 This is the one about whom it is written:

“‘I will send my messenger ahead of you,
who will prepare your way before you.’

28 I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.” Luke 7:18-28

John, who earlier had declared Jesus the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world and had seen the Holy Spirit descend on Him and seen miracles was doubting. But Jesus commended him, not condemned.

Likewise, most of the disciples doubted (not just Thomas), the Thessalonian's doubted, Elijah, etc.

See. Doubt does not a Christian undo. Giving into doubt and "living by doubt" as opposed to faith can, as it paralyzes you and drys you up.

Please, stop living by doubt. That's a terrible, self-destructive road. Go to God with your doubts. He understands. He won't smite you for doubt. The shear fact that you haven't fallen away yet gives enough evidence that you do have faith however small. Like flower said, all you need is faith like a mustard seed. Take what faith you have and go to God. He will listen. He doesn't want anyone to go to Hell.

 

[raven1]

I guess it is just the fact I can't know if I am forgiven for the doubt. So no matter what anyone says I still fear it. I have like five percent belief ninety five doubt. Agnostics have that.

 

[Job38]

I guess it is just the fact I can't know if I am forgiven for the doubt. So no matter what anyone says I still fear it. I have like five percent belief ninety five doubt. Agnostics have that.

Matthew 9:5 - Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? Unrepentive sin can cripple you mentally, physically and emotionally. This is why Satan puts this "doubt" word in your thoughts. If you truly repent and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to come into your heart then you are truly forgiven.

 

[flowerforever7]

Raven1,

I want to challenge you on some things (in love). I am not meaning to turn this into a theological debate, so I hope it doesn't. Neither am I sharing these things to make you feel that your personal belief is "wrong"; I just want you to think a little bit more critically on something. If you disagree, then we agree to disagree, but I want to bring it up for your mind to chew on.

You believe that people are (individually) predestined and chosen to either go to Heaven or Hell. I have a few questions and points to bring to your attention about that; and propose an alternate view (if you so wish to more seriously consider it):

What about babies? Do you think God would really allow babies to be born only to go to Hell with no chance to repent? Can a baby even repent?

Do you actually believe that Jesus died on the cross for some people or the whole world? The Bible says this:

1 Timothy 2:1-7 "1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles."

Do you really disagree with the apostle Paul, whom Jesus sent out to proclaim the truth about Him?

What about this Scripture?:

John 3:16-18 "16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

I know individual predestination is a religious view you've been taught, but it seems to be in honest contradiction with what the Scriptures actually teach.

Even Scriptures that call people to repent of their sins don't make sense if they are not able to repent because they were chosen to be lost. ??? huh? In Acts 17:30, God calls all people to repent. Why call all if some were chosen to be damned before time started. In my opinion, this closes out the whole point of Jesus dying for the sins of the world and calling people to repent and be saved.

Sometimes we have to cross examine what we've been taught to believe theologically. I have an alternate view on predestination. What I am proposing to you is that when predestination is spoken of in Scripture it is refering to God's plan for people in general. God has predestined for us people to be saved. That is why He initiated a plan of salvation. My proposition to you, is that "the elect" spoken of in the Bible is meant in a general sense to mean Christians; (those who have chosen to accept God's gift of salvation.) I think this squares more with what the Scriptures actually teach rather than individual people being predetermined to be damned or saved before they're born. I have a problem with that concept when God through the Scriptures overall seems to communicate we have the ability of choice.

Here is a link which may be helpful. The tone of the link is more of a refutation of the individual predestination standpoint; but regardless of how serious or casually you intend on taking it I just wanted to offer an alternate perspective on it: 5 Point Calvinism Refuted MAIN HOMEPAGE

God bless.
_________________________
Acts 2:38 "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

 

[raven1]

It is not that I want to believe that but I have to think worsE case scenario. I have heard babies become adults then go to heaven. Idk I am just scared.

 

[dabro]

Not really You have many things that show God is true but, the OCD part is a disorder of doubts. So even if I said that you have a concience and know right from wrong and something had to put it there then another question would pop up. It's an endless maze of answers and ?'s.

 

[raven1]

I don't really feel like I do have many things to proof it, either you have found enough proof or you have faith.Everybody says that, that doubts are from OCD there is not a test to take that proves it is so I don't know if I am forgivable. Either I wasn't chosen for faith or I could be a doubter of the un-OCD kind. I had an athiest tell me in a private post that it isn't she didn't believe in God just that it is unlikely. All if my doubts make me feel that way and I don't want it to but I am compelled to look up atheist articles. I always come up with the conclusion I cannot know if God exists or not but likely and I don't want to. If God doesn't exist I would still want to believe he does to avoid hell and not fear death like I did before.

 

[raven1]

I just read an article on how Ketamine users had the same experience as near death people have and maybe there is no such thing as faith just belief or none. I can't stop worrying about no afterlife or I am going to hell for doubt or being bad. My husband says chill God would not want me to worry. I can't know if God is nice and maybe it would be just to send me to hell. He is always just. My husband also says if there us nothing after this y waste on worrying about there being nothing and enough my life. My mind is going 150 mph. If is there y doesn't he rescue me from my doubt.

 

[flowerforever7]

Raven1, sorry to hear how you're feeling. The content of what you are questioning seems genuine, but the form it is in (endless questions and doubts and thoughts on them) sound very OCD to me. I will pray for you. What ketamine users are experiencing is something personal and subjective; the universe, laws of physics, mathematics are not. These things heavily point to an intelligent designer (there are many scientists who believe in a God (because of science) not in spite of it. And there are those whose study of scientific facts led them to conclude that there is a God.

I do want to suggest a few things:
That you spend more time in the Word and hold onto that over whatever anyone has taught you religiously.

That you try to come to terms with the fact that as a human you will never have every single answer, but there is enough evidence to build a logical conclusion about something. For example, we cannot say with 100% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow; however, we do have enough evidence to make an educated (uncertain) guess that it will and be right. Or to paraphrase something Lee Strobel has eloquently said before: you can walk down a beach and see a heart drawn in the sand with the words Tom loves Mary, and conclude that some source of intelligence wrote it; most likely humans. You may not have been there, and cannot say with 100% certainty that humans wrote it; but by logical deduction and reasoning you can make an educated (most likely correct guess) that it was a human being who wrote it, and the wind did not just blow the sand that way, or that an animal that you may find on the beach like a turtle wrote it. The same holds true in the science realm for those who through the study of science lead them to conclude that an Intelligent Designer (or at least intelligence) is the source of mathematics, the laws of physics etc.

The last thing I want you to consider, is to come to terms with the fact that if you have OCD, it is not called the doubting disease for nothing. It is a neurological disorder where repeated doubts are a pathology of it. You may need to get treatment for your OCD. I would also suggest the book Brain Lock if I haven't before. And refer you to this website which helps people to better respond to their OCD, and thereby perhaps lessen its symptoms: Four Steps

Hold close to God, continue to research, stick to the Word of God (that comes first compared to whatever you have been taught religiously, and if what you've been taught religiously contradicts the Scriptures, you need to choose God's Word over it.)

I will pray for you. OCD is a tough thing to live with as a Christian.

God bless you.
_______________
Acts 2:38 "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

 

[raven1]

Thanks guys. My mind gravitates to any doubt destructive to my faith. No mathematics, physics or whatever helps me believe. Nothing is ever enough. Also too there is no way to know this is OCD.

 

[flowerforever7]

It is not that I want to believe that but I have to think worsE case scenario. I have heard babies become adults then go to heaven. Idk I am just scared.

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

John 3:17
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Let the Word of God set your mind free, to believe the truth which is rich and gracious.

_______________
Acts 2:38 "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

 

[flowerforever7]

Thanks guys. My mind gravitates to any doubt destructive to my faith. No mathematics, physics or whatever helps me believe. Nothing is ever enough. Also too there is no way to know this is OCD.

You said there is no way to know this is OCD; have you sat down with a psychiatrist who is trained and experienced with OCD cases? I think through this you may be able to get more clarity than you think you can on this. You may want to look one up here: IOCDF - Find Providers

_______________
Acts 2:38 "Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."