Moralism failed me, so where is my righteousness?

[Gary K]

Whatever he meant, he didn't mean he was asking the Holy Spirit to come into his heart every day. He understood that the presence of Jesus in our hearts is what makes the difference between being alive spiritually and being carnal (Romans 8) and that the Spirit is the collateral which secures our eternal inheritance (Ephesians 1).

So, you have no idea what he meant.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

So, you have no idea what he meant.

I am 100% certain of what it doesn't mean. All I can say is you are missing out if you think you must ask daily for the Holy Spirit's presence for fear that He would otherwise leave you alone.

 

[Gary K]

I am 100% certain of what it doesn't mean. All I can say is you are missing out if you think you must ask daily for the Holy Spirit's presence for fear that He would otherwise leave you alone.

So, give me your best guess as to what you think Paul meant by saying he died daily.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

So, give me your best guess as to what you think Paul meant by saying he died daily.

This is not going to please you, but a cursory inspection of the context reveals the answer. Here is the context... There are 3 paragraphs under 3 heading descriptions in the NKJV. The verse in question is in the 3rd paragraph. Here is the text:

The Risen Christ, Our Hope​

​

12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.​

​

​

The Last Enemy Destroyed​

​

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.​

​

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Effects of Denying the Resurrection​

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29 Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? 30 And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? 31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32 If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”​

​

The New King James Version (1 Co 15:12–32). (1982). Thomas Nelson.​

The first paragraph takes issue with one of the doctrines that the Corinthian believers were taking seriously, which is that the dead are not raised to life. Paul points out many things that are not true if in fact the dead are not raised.

The second paragraph, starting with verse 20, begins with a bold statement that Christ has indeed been raised from the dead. He then states the chronological order of various things that will occur between now and the end of this age. It ends with all things being put under Jesus' feet and eventually all things being put under God, "that God may be all in all".

The Third paragraph, starting with verse 29, re-addresses the logical conclusions that may be drawn from the contrary view. If there is no resurrection, baptism is pointless. If there is no resurrection, why do we "stand in jeopardy every hour?" Then Paul "boasts" about dying daily, identifying himself as a fool for placing himself in jeapordy ever hour if in fact the dead are not raised. Then He gives an example of his dangerous expliots that would be of no value if the dead were not raised. He concludes the paragraph with the only logical conclusion possible, "If the dead do not rise, 'Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!'”

You probably have already locked yourself into your position on verse 31 and are probably not swayed by my analysis of the context, but I hope you're able to adapt. It shows clearly that it has nothing to do with inviting the Holy Spirit into your heart every morning. Hopefully, you can find your way past that misconception of the Holy Spirit's presence as well.

 

[Gary K]

This is not going to please you, but a cursory inspection of the context reveals the answer. Here is the context... There are 3 paragraphs under 3 heading descriptions in the NKJV. The verse in question is in the 3rd paragraph. Here is the text:

The Risen Christ, Our Hope​

​

12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.​

​

​

The Last Enemy Destroyed​

​

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.​

​

​

Effects of Denying the Resurrection​

​

29 Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? 30 And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? 31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. 32 If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”​

​

The New King James Version (1 Co 15:12–32). (1982). Thomas Nelson.​

The first paragraph takes issue with one of the doctrines that the Corinthian believers were taking seriously, which is that the dead are not raised to life. Paul points out many things that are not true if in fact the dead are not raised.

The second paragraph, starting with verse 20, begins with a bold statement that Christ has indeed been raised from the dead. He then states the chronological order of various things that will occur between now and the end of this age. It ends with all things being put under Jesus' feet and eventually all things being put under God, "that God may be all in all".

The Third paragraph, starting with verse 29, re-addresses the logical conclusions that may be drawn from the contrary view. If there is no resurrection, baptism is pointless. If there is no resurrection, why do we "stand in jeopardy every hour?" Then Paul "boasts" about dying daily, identifying himself as a fool for placing himself in jeapordy ever hour if in fact the dead are not raised. Then He gives an example of his dangerous expliots that would be of no value if the dead were not raised. He concludes the paragraph with the only logical conclusion possible, "If the dead do not rise, 'Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!'”

You probably have already locked yourself into your position on verse 31 and are probably not swayed by my analysis of the context, but I hope you're able to adapt. It shows clearly that it has nothing to do with inviting the Holy Spirit into your heart every morning. Hopefully, you can find your way past that misconception of the Holy Spirit's presence as well.

Sorry, but your reading of that passage makes no sense to me. Paul is speaking of literal death in the surrounding verses and you want to take a short single phrase out of one sentence and make it speak to something allegorical. It doesn't work.

The entire chapter has to do with mankind's spiritual struggles and what God wants to do in and for us. In that context Paul speaking to dying daily to his flesh for spiritual rebirth makes sense.

I don't know about you but I have struggled deeply for decades and the necessity of daily recommitting myself to Jesus makes perfect sense. I reject the once saved always saved nonsense as scripture doesn't agree with that. We don't lose our status as free moral agents just because we have a relationship with God.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

I had a feeling you wouldn’t like my explanation, but I tried anyway.

I’m leaving this thread now, as all pertinent subjects have been covered thoroughly and completely. I’m sure I’ll see you all on other threads.

 

[oikonomia]

I had a feeling you wouldn’t like my explanation, but I tried anyway.

I’m leaving this thread now, as all pertinent subjects have been covered thoroughly and completely. I’m sure I’ll see you all on other threads.

Thankyou for your labors here.

 

[oikonomia]

I don't know about you but I have struggled deeply for decades and the necessity of daily recommitting myself to Jesus makes perfect sense. I reject the once saved always saved nonsense as scripture doesn't agree with that. We don't lose our status as free moral agents just because we have a relationship with God.

You see Gary, you have little rest though you want to strictly obey resting on the seventh day Sabbath.

 

[Gary K]

You see Gary, you have little rest though you want to strictly obey resting on the seventh day Sabbath.

Nope. You're wrong again as you are assuming things not in evidence.

A few months ago I started putting righteousness by faith into action and the changes in my life are startling to say the least. I now have victory over my appetite as food was my security blanket ever since I can remember. I lived to eat instead of ate to live. It was a form of idolatry. My short temper is much much better. I still get irritated now and then but I no longer blow up. I've always loved looking at women lustfully too. I no longer do that.

My heart has changed and the only effort I have put into it is asking God every morning to take control of my life, and if one of ny other pet pet sins tempts me during the day I immediately turn it over to God. My Sabbath keeping has improved too as I am following Isaiah 58 very closely, but once again my behavior is coming naturally from the change in my heart. God is the entire reason for all of it as I've proven to myself over the decades that I cannot live like I now am on my own.

God is good and powerful beyond human imagination. All we've ever known in our lives is sin, but through Him we can live with a clear conscience every day.

Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[oikonomia]

Nope. You're wrong again as you are assuming things not in evidence.

A few months ago I started putting righteousness by faith into action and the changes in my life are startling to say the least. I now have victory over my appetite as food was my security blanket ever since I can remember. I lived to eat instead of ate to live. It was a form of idolatry. My short temper is much much better. I still get irritated now and then but I no longer blow up. I've always loved looking at women lustfully too. I no longer do that.

My heart has changed and the only effort I have put into it is asking God every morning to take control of my life, and if one of ny other pet pet sins tempts me during the day I immediately turn it over to God. My Sabbath keeping has improved too as I am following Isaiah 58 very closely, but once again my behavior is coming naturally from the change in my heart. God is the entire reason for all of it as I've proven to myself over the decades that I cannot live like I now am on my own.

God is good and powerful beyond human imagination. All we've ever known in our lives is sin, but through Him we can live with a clear conscience every day.

It sounds to me like you very much do not want to be misunderstood.
Its good to practice that in Christ with other believers also.

 

[Gary K]

It sounds to me like you very much do not want to be misunderstood.
Its good to practice that in Christ with other believers also.

Why would I want to be misunderstood? I don't think you want to be misunderstood either.

 

[oikonomia]

Why would I want to be misunderstood? I don't think you want to be misunderstood either.

Did you read carefully what I wrote?
If you read carefully what I wrote ( I double checked for typos ) you should understand.
that I lready said you would NOT want to be misunderstood.

============================================
It sounds to me like you very much do not want to be misunderstood.
Its good to practice that in Christ with other believers also.
===========================================

 

[Gary K]

Did you read carefully what I wrote?
If you read carefully what I wrote ( I double checked for typos ) you should understand.
that I lready said you would NOT want to be misunderstood.

============================================
It sounds to me like you very much do not want to be misunderstood.
Its good to practice that in Christ with other believers also.
===========================================

Sorry, that was a rhetorical question.