Moral behavior without god? - Regarding Game Theory.

[Maxwell511]

Wait a sec, how did this topic suddenly became about actual prisoners instead of the prisoners dilemma concept?

Magic.

I may be an atheist but I do respect the wizard folk.

Don't mess with them, they have wands!!!

 

[Stinker]

1) If God does not exist then objective moral values do not exist.
2) Objective moral values do exist.
3) Therefore God exists.
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So, the objection to the above premise is that it is objective only because it is authoritive. I think this is the reason why the spiritually unregenerate will not accept the concept of objective morality. Like the scriptures teach, and what Apologists such as C.S. Lewis explains in Mere Christianity , unregenerate man is a rebel against God. They are in rebellion against Him and His authority and unwittingly in league with God's enemy. It is strange how unbelievers really want their morality to be objective, and in many cases try to pass it off as such right under people's eyes, with no basis for such at all. For if pressed for the basis.....would lead back to a supernatural authority.

 

[Stinker]

The argument is made that if anything exists abstractly, then it ceases to exist when the last human mind ceases to exist. Hence, math and morality are abstracts, therefore they cease to exist with the passing of the last human mind. Well then, our conscience must be just another 'abstraction' then as well. For just being an abstraction it sure is troublesome many times! Mathmatics will no longer be objective truth either. The truth that 2 + 2 + 4 will no longer be true because no human will be around to confirm it.

 

[Ectezus]

Hello Stinker, I'm just wondering, did you read anything in this topic before you posted?

You seem to base your whole opinion on the idea that objective morals exist and it is therefore proof of a god.

I hope you realize that using objective and morals in the same sentence is an oxymoron. The very definition of objective is "not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice".

How can it be objective if everyone is thinking differently about what is right or wrong on issues like: abortion, capital punishment, gay rights, physician-assisted suicide, divorce, war and birth control.
Even believers of the bible aren't on the same page!

1) If God does not exist then objective moral values do not exist.

This statement is assuming that moral standards could not have evolved and exist in humans like 'instinct' that we find in the animal kingdom. "Knowing what to do without instructions beforehand." It's perfectly logical not to have the urge to kill everyone around you because if all your ancestors had that feeling you and me wouldn't even be here today!

Certain morals instinctively feel right (and thus objective to you) because if we didn't evolve with them we humans wouldn't be able to coexist in large groups.

2) Objective moral values do exist.

As for this second sentence; it's just plain wrong. Morals are subjective, they are different all over the world! The bible says slavery is just dandy even though everyone today agrees it is in fact immoral. Morals change because humans and the world around them change.


Stinker, if god were to be proven not to exist, would you go out on a killing spree? Raping everyone in sight and steal whatever you can?

Or would you simply continue living a normal life to today's standards of what the society you live in considers moral behavior? With the knowledge that not doing so would mean you end up in jail for the rest of your life after all...

In short: Is the truth of the bible the ONLY thing keeping you from becoming a mass murderer?


- Ectezus

 

[Belk]

1) If God does not exist then objective moral values do not exist.
2) Objective moral values do exist.
3) Therefore God exists.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, the objection to the above premise is that it is objective only because it is authoritive. I think this is the reason why the spiritually unregenerate will not accept the concept of objective morality. Like the scriptures teach, and what Apologists such as C.S. Lewis explains in Mere Christianity , unregenerate man is a rebel against God. They are in rebellion against Him and His authority and unwittingly in league with God's enemy. It is strange how unbelievers really want their morality to be objective, and in many cases try to pass it off as such right under people's eyes, with no basis for such at all. For if pressed for the basis.....would lead back to a supernatural authority.

No, in point of fact I have no problem whatsoever saying morality is not objective. Now all you have to do is offer us some proof that morality IS objective. Take your time.

 

[Ectezus]

While I'm still waiting for an answer from Stinker maybe someone else who also thinks morals are 'objective' could answer the questions I've posted 2 replies up?

- Ectezus