Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[Ana the Ist]

You are so out of touch with what minorities go through.

Feel free to explain....because systemic racism doesn't explain much.

What's the oppression you experienced yesterday? Who oppressed you?

I don't blame you,

I'm not sure about that lol.

it's your privilege that makes you think you know the experience of every person on Earth.

I've never made this claim....you seem to be imagining something here.

You get to decide who has been oppressed and when am I correct?

Well the term "oppression" has been thrown around really loosely lately, like many other terms, so I don't really blame you for that.

I learned not long ago that some children, trafficked across our borders under this joke of an administration have been used to do semi-dangerous work, almost certainly for below legal wages for an adult, and I doubt they have any choice in the matter....so I can't say no one is oppressed in the US. Those kids certainly are....but I don't ever hear you talking about anyone other than yourself on the matter of oppression (which makes sense, because who's oppression would you know better?) so again....what's the oppression you faced yesterday?

Tell me all about it.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Not referring to them by a derogatory term might ease their feeling of being persecuted. That’s akin to saying Jewish k-word or female c-word. I’m not denying your right to use whatever expression tickles your fancy but them’s fighting words.

Do forgive me....I had no idea that was a derogatory term. That's probably because she referred to herself and her family that way...but perhaps she doesn't know either. These derogatory terms pop up like weeds these days....

Of course, that itself becomes a problem because the same people who police other people's speech think it's disrespectful to refer to people in ways they don't identify with....so what am I to do if that's how she identifies???

If you can find one of speech police @DaisyDay, have them send me an email address through my pm. I'd love to have a discussion about their authority on moral speech but it would require a platform that allows me to express myself a little more freely.

That was O’Reilly’s seasonal shtick, widely embraced by the talking heads of a certain persuasion. What about it?

Was it real? I'm sure certain Christians believed so....but I'm curious if you think that makes it true.

 

[RDKirk]

When?

There's some old censuses that I don't recall if they included any racial data. In early 1900s though...I think the US as a whole would have been basically low 90% to low 80% white by even the "1 drop" rule. There's certainly going to have been a higher percentage of blacks in the south....but I don't think it ever approached 50/50. During the entire trans Atlantic slave trade...the US only imported between 300k and 400k African slaves. I know that sounds like a lot (it's certainly not small) but compared to other nations or regions like Brazil or the Middle East....it actually is a rather small amount.

Mississippi is currently 39% black, but I seem to recall it being as high as 50% in the past.

 

[RDKirk]

People can use racism for maybe not getting a particular job or promotion maybe, but not for the state of their entire life. Nobody in America gets knocked down over and over throughout their entire life because of their race. People of all colors, nationalities, and religions have literally been perfectly capable of getting jobs in all fields of work in America. There isn’t a single field of work in America that doesn’t have people of all colors doing them. No one can say I wanted to be a doctor, a lawyer, a dentists, a politician, a pilot, or any other field of employment, but I couldn’t because I’m black or Hispanic or Asian or middle eastern or any other group out there.

It's possible for a person to be in a particular life situation because he's black, and that life situation prevents him from achieving (or even conceiving) a particular goal. A boy born to a single mother in south Chicago could be in that position. The ones who come out of that birth situation as doctors are outliers of outliers and can't reasonably be considered as examples of what a "little grit and determination can do."

But then, so the situation is the same for a boy born to a single mother in the Appalachians.

And we can't say that is true of a black kid born to a Range Rover-driving father and a Buick Enclave-driving mother raised in Frisco, TX....except to the degree that kid unfortunately identifies with the south Chicago "gansta" culture that the media tells him is "his" culture, despite the fact that he's living in an upper-middle class suburb.

 

[RDKirk]

Do forgive me....I had no idea that was a derogatory term. That's probably because she referred to herself and her family that way...but perhaps she doesn't know either. These derogatory terms pop up like weeds these days....

Of course she had to use that term, otherwise she couldn't explain to you how she was being victimized, because hardly anyone else knows they've come up with a different term. It's kind of like older blacks in the late 60s having to be told, "We don't use 'colored' anymore, Dad. That's a racial slur now."

 

[Ana the Ist]

it seems his argument is that white europeans being repressed in 455 by the Huns is comparable to black people being repressed 60-80 years ago.

Lol well the Ottoman Turks were still enslaving white Europeans after the Civil War ended in the US....but hey, it's not like I expected you to actually take my advice about opening a history book since yesterday and learning all the things you still don't know.

Apparently, you think white Europeans were living on easy street for all of recorded history and consequently were the only "people who never faced oppression" instead of a group that faced almost constant struggle and oppression for 2000+ years.

If you find history books intimidating...you can always just Google image search some maps of Europe from 1000AD to the present and imagine how those changes in borders happened.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Ok but you ALSO noted:

That sounds like the basic premise of CRT.

It probably wouldn't hurt to glance at any of the foundational writings for CRT too....that way you wouldn't still be wrong about it too.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Of course she had to use that term, otherwise she couldn't explain to you how she was being victimized, because hardly anyone else knows they've come up with a different term.

Or....

Since we aren't talking about a community sitting in one geographic location....

It's also possible she's unaware anyone has decided what she's supposed to call herself for her and just used the term she's always identified as.

Or perhaps like the term Latinx, it hasn't caught on as quickly as some had hoped.

. It's kind of like older blacks in the late 60s having to be told, "We don't use 'colored' anymore, Dad. That's a racial slur now."

And then their children telling them they're people of color now....or colored people for short.

I mean really....what is the difference? Word order? It's the same words describing the same thing....skin color.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Oh shoot! I'm sorry! I mixed you up with another poster whose a police officer! Apologies!

I owe you an apology as well because I thought you made that assumption about my job because I’m white. Now I see it was just a mistake so I wanted to apologize for my mistake as well.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I didn't make assumptions.

I confused you with another poster. I replied to that and apologized for it

Yes I just now saw that post so again I apologize.

 

[RDKirk]

Or perhaps like the term Latinx, it hasn't caught on as quickly as some had hoped.

I live in a predominantly Latino neighborhood. I've askes some of my neighbors about "Latinx." Some have yet never heard of it. Some have heard of it from their kids. Not a single person, nobody, period, tries to use "Latinx" in their spoken Spanish. It's not even pronounceable in Spanish, except as a "Spanglish" word when they have to talk about it as a word. Most of them are torqued because they see it as an Anglo effort to fix a problem in their language that they don't believe exists.

And then their children telling them they're people of color now....or colored people for short.

I mean really....what is the difference? Word order? It's the same words describing the same thing....skin color.

The difference is that "people of color" as used today attempts to capture the "intersectionality" of racism suffered by all non-white people, rather than referring only to American Descendants of Slavery, as "colored people" did. Whether it succeeds in that aim is questionable. It's kind of how "Asian" is used by Asians...for discussions with non-Asians, much less among themselves.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Asking for permission to live in their territory

I wonder what that would look like?

Do you think there might have been negotiations and treatises involved? Maybe they even traded with the natives for their own territory to have their own laws for?

 

[BNR32FAN]

How would I know? How would she know? You missed the point...

I asked for an example of the worst persecution she could think of.

In the post you said you asked for an example of the type of persecution they experienced that caused them to leave Romania. All I’m saying is that many minorities think they’re being discriminated against when that’s not always the case. A lot of them like to play the discrimination card anytime things don’t go in their favor and even as an excuse to cover up their own short comings & mistakes.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I live in a predominantly Latino neighborhood. I've askes some of my neighbors about "Latinx." Some have yet never heard of it. Some have heard of it from their kids. Not a single person, nobody, period, tries to use "Latinx" in their spoken Spanish. It's not even pronounceable in Spanish, except as a "Spanglish" word when they have to talk about it as a word. Most of them are torqued because they see it as an Anglo effort to fix a problem in their language that they don't believe exists.

I've heard it spoken as "lah-tinks"....which is pretty ridiculous. I don't know if it's part of a larger "correction" at de-gendering the entire language or perhaps a half hearted attempt to create a new gender within a gendered language with only two genders but either way....I can understand why they aren't fond of it.

The difference is that "people of color" as used today attempts to capture the "intersectionality" of racism suffered by all non-white people, rather than referring only to American Descendants of Slavery, as "colored people" did.

Well it did...but you may have already noticed a shift to BIPOC....or black and indigenous people of color.

Whether it succeeds in that aim is questionable. It's kind of how "Asian" is used by Asians...for discussions with non-Asians, much less among themselves.

Again, you may have noticed POC largely being replaced by BIPOC.

Theories as to why are few since tracing BIPOC down to its origins (unless there's some earlier usage of the term I don't know about) explains the reasoning behind the shift entirely. POC casts such a wide net that any problems facing non-whites may take precedent (stop asian hate) and if you're a black activist only interested in helping black people but don't want it to look that way....you'll need to narrow the group down to black people and a group smaller and poorer so they can easily be ignored and black issues can remain at the forefront of your activism at all times. BIPOC is the exclusion of Latinos and Asians from POC.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Basically every person I’ve known who grew up affluent. Not that they aren’t decent people or don’t work hard at their jobs, but most of them have had fairly easy times of things.

Yes I would agree with that, that’s pretty much what I’ve observed as well.

 

[Pommer]

I thought the South was 50/50 white/black by population. Maybe I misunderstood your statement.....

Right. But should Blow’s suggestion be taken up that’d swing to 55/45* black to white.
*for instance, not an actual statistic

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's possible for a person to be in a particular life situation because he's black, and that life situation prevents him from achieving (or even conceiving) a particular goal. A boy born to a single mother in south Chicago could be in that position. The ones who come out of that birth situation as doctors are outliers of outliers and can't reasonably be considered as examples of what a "little grit and determination can do."

But then, so the situation is the same for a boy born to a single mother in the Appalachians.

And we can't say that is true of a black kid born to a Range Rover-driving father and a Buick Enclave-driving mother raised in Frisco, TX....except to the degree that kid unfortunately identifies with the south Chicago "gansta" culture that the media tells him is "his" culture, despite the fact that he's living in an upper-middle class suburb.

Nobody tells us what our culture is, we choose what we want to emulate. I went to Francis Scott Key middle school in Houston Tx and even tho all the kids lived in the same hood some chose to be gangsters and some chose not to.

 

[Pommer]

…. All I’m saying is that many minorities think they’re being discriminated against when that’s not always the case. A lot of them like to play the discrimination card anytime things don’t go in their favor and even as an excuse to cover up their own short comings & mistakes.

I think I’m being discriminated against!

No, you’re just covering up you own shortcomings & mistakes.

Oh! Thank you not-my-oppressor for explaining my life situation to me; I will try harder!

 

[Ana the Ist]

In the post you said you asked for an example of the type of persecution they experienced that caused them to leave Romania. All I’m saying is that many minorities think they’re being discriminated against when that’s not always the case. A lot of them like to play the discrimination card anytime things don’t go in their favor and even as an excuse to cover up their own short comings & mistakes.

I agree...but if we were talking about what kind of persecution would cause someone to flee a country....it wouldn't be the sort of thing you'd reply to with a story about waiting in line at the hospital.

The story becomes a reflex. "None of this is my fault or my choice, I'm a victim of what has been done to me". Persecution complex.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Mississippi is currently 39% black, but I seem to recall it being as high as 50% in the past.

Ok....now we're down to one state? Can you recall when it was 50%?