Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

Ana the Ist · Jan 26, 2023

Pommer said:
This level of rhetoric “boot to the neck” is getting dog-whilstly, to my ears.

It's silly. I don't know exactly when left wing rhetoric went off the deep end...but when the youth are claiming speech is violence and minorities are talking about a boot to their neck.....it's not something anyone should take seriously.

It's like back in a late 90s and early 2000s when those few radical feminists would claim "all sex is rape" and people would just laugh because it sounded too ridiculous for any serious conversation.

Now that group is basically driving the narrative on the left with one ridiculous claim after another.

Ana the Ist · Jan 26, 2023

rturner76 said:
I guess even if you burn a black church or lynch someone, you can't prove it was because of racism. I guess it can only be racist activity if someone stands up and says "I'm doing this for racist reasons." Otherwise, no matter how racist the activity, it's not really racist until they confess to it.

Isn't this the same thread where I literally pointed out mainstream news sources saying racist things about white people?

Didn't I ask if you could do the same? Just one or two news articles blaming black people for anything or telling them how they need to change?

The racism isn't hidden. You can just see people saying it. They feel comfortable with their racism because like all racists....they think they're justified.

Ken-1122 · Jan 26, 2023

Pommer said:
So, it could’ve been ethnic discrimination and not racism?

Yes.

Pommer said:
What compels you to run to this “defense”?

I wasn't running to anyone's defense, just pointing out the obvious; that's all.

rturner76 · Jan 26, 2023

rjs330 said:
What are you talking about? Who on earth is putting a boot on your neck? What boot are you talking about?

None of those charts asks the question why. Much of why lies at the feet of the black community right now.

In America it definitely rested at the feet of white slave holders and in Jim Crow the white community as a whole was a problem and held them back.

But now, all of that is over. There is not one thing that a black person cannot do and there is no one putting a boot on anyone's neck.

I'd like to know who is putting a boot on your neck.

Trauma affects the way you raise your children. Blacks get paid less for doing the same jobs. They always have and it continues today. You've been shown the statistics.. There are disparities in all of these categories because there always has been a disparity. That is what makes it systemic.

rturner76 · Jan 26, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
Isn't this the same thread where I literally pointed out mainstream news sources saying racist things about white people?

Didn't I ask if you could do the same? Just one or two news articles blaming black people for anything or telling them how they need to change?

The racism isn't hidden. You can just see people saying it. They feel comfortable with their racism because like all racists....they think they're justified.

People might say racist things but it doesn't affect job advancement preference and the pay gap. That is racism that has always been there and still is. Saying racist things on social media doesn't pay one group of people less for doing the same job.

rjs330 · Jan 26, 2023

rturner76 said:
Trauma affects the way you raise your children. Blacks get paid less for doing the same jobs. They always have and it continues today. You've been shown the statistics.. There are disparities in all of these categories because there always has been a disparity. That is what makes it systemic.

There is no pay gap. When you do the same job with the same experience the pay gap is pennies on the dollar equalling less than $500 a year. Which can be explained by a number of things that have nothing to do with racism.

White people have the same pay gap with Asians. Am I to assume that people are racist against white people?

Akita Suggagaki · Jan 26, 2023

rjs330 said:
There is no pay gap. When you do the same job with the same experience the pay gap is pennies on the dollar equalling less than $500 a year.

please show your evidence.

rturner76 · Jan 26, 2023

rjs330 said:
There is no pay gap. When you do the same job with the same experience the pay gap is pennies on the dollar equalling less than $500 a year. Which can be explained by a number of things that have nothing to do with racism.

White people have the same pay gap with Asians. Am I to assume that people are racist against white people?

White people also run the banks so they are not being oppressed as a people by Asians. White people run this country, the rest just live here.

"Large racial and gender wage gaps in the U.S. remain, even as they have narrowed in some cases over the years. Among full- and part-time workers in the U.S., blacks in 2015 earned just 75% as much as whites in median hourly earnings and women earned 83% as much as men."

Racial, gender wage gaps persist in U.S. despite some progress

Looking at gender, race and ethnicity combined, all groups, with the exception of Asian men, lag behind white men in terms of median hourly earnings.

www.pewresearch.org

Ana the Ist · Jan 26, 2023

rturner76 said:
People might say racist things but it doesn't affect job advancement preference and the pay gap. That is racism that has always been there and still is. Saying racist things on social media doesn't pay one group of people less for doing the same job.

Let's be 100% clear...I don't even think you believe that.

After all, one of my examples was a white guy losing a job opportunity because he is a white guy.

Here's a completely different and brand new example that seems to keep popping up these days....

‘I Do Not Apologize’: Black Michigan School Board Member Unapologetic Over Controversial Tweets Calling Whiteness ‘Evil,’ Splits Community Support

Kesha Hamilton, a school board member in Jackson, Michigan, is facing backlash for controversial tweets blasting white people. Hamilton is a racial equity

atlantablackstar.com

This racist black woman pretty clearly hates white people. There's multiple racist black people in her community trying to cover for her. They claimed her statements are about "systemic racism" but tweets like "white women are the stupidest" are just racist. Systemic racism is the excuse she's given to be as racist as she wants.

She's the "racial equity and diversity" officer of some Michigan school. Do you think that there might be a problem with handing that job to a racist? Do you think a white person could say those things about any race and keep their job? They'd fire a white janitor for saying those things.

If the boot on your neck is so heavy....how come you can't just point it out? I got a ton of these examples. It's not even hidden a little bit. People are openly racist and not even ashamed of it....as long as it's towards white people.

I don't have to redefine words, invent some magically hidden process, or pretend there's a boot on anyone's neck.

There's racism in the world. It's easily found....easy to point out. You seem to only care about the racism no one can actually find.

Ana the Ist · Jan 26, 2023

Akita Suggagaki said:
please show your evidence.

You didn't show evidence of a pay gap. Taking the average annual incomes of various groups doesn't mean that they are being paid unfairly due to race. If McDonald's is hiring at 10$/hour I'm sure a white person is going to get 10$ an hour just like a black person.

If you're contending that somehow despite it being illegal, black people would only get 7.50$/hour despite white people getting 10$....show that. Where is this happening?

Ana the Ist · Jan 26, 2023

rturner76 said:
White people also run the banks so they are not being oppressed as a people by Asians. White people run this country, the rest just live here.

Do black people get approved for more loans and get better rates at "black owned" banks?

DaisyDay · Jan 26, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
It's silly. I don't know exactly when left wing rhetoric went off the deep end...but when the youth are claiming speech is violence and minorities are talking about a boot to their neck.....it's not something anyone should take seriously.

It's like back in a late 90s and early 2000s when those few radical feminists would claim "all sex is rape" and people would just laugh because it sounded too ridiculous for any serious conversation.

Now that group is basically driving the narrative on the left with one ridiculous claim after another.

True, it's no longer a boot to the neck; nowadays it is a knee on a neck.

Akita Suggagaki · Jan 26, 2023

Ana the Ist said:
You didn't show evidence of a pay gap. Taking the average annual incomes of various groups doesn't mean that they are being paid unfairly due to race. If McDonald's is hiring at 10$/hour I'm sure a white person is going to get 10$ an hour just like a black person.

If you're contending that somehow despite it being illegal, black people would only get 7.50$/hour despite white people getting 10$....show that. Where is this happening?

When human capital, skills, and other factors contributing to the racial wage gap are taken into account, many researchers find that there is still a portion of the racial wage gap that is unexplained. Many attribute this to another factor: race. Differences in wages due solely to race is racial discrimination. Through the use of statistical controls, sociologists and economists "ask whether a given person with the same background characteristics, such as level of education, region of residence, gender, marital characteristics, has the same earnings as a statistically equivalent person from a different racial/ethnic group".[6] Differences that emerge are taken as evidence of racial discrimination. Research has found wage and employment discrimination against blacks, Native Americans, Hispanics, and Asians; however, discrimination has been found to be a much larger contributing factor for black wages than wages of other races

Racial pay gap in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ana the Ist · Jan 26, 2023

DaisyDay said:
True, it's no longer a boot to the neck; nowadays it is a knee on a neck.

I don't think @rturner76 is the ghost of George Floyd.

Akita Suggagaki · Jan 26, 2023

"That means that, in 2019, Black advanced degree holders earned on average 82.4 cents to the dollar of White advanced degree holders. Even a multiple regression analysis that controlled for not only education level but also age, sex, and geographic region of workers revealed a significant, and worsening, gap from 10.2% in 2000 to 14.9% in 2019."
See page 1410

"There is no longer any question about whether racial and gender pay gaps exist; the only question is the size of those gaps depending on the level of adjustments of data. Where no controllable factor accounts for the difference that remains, economists infer that discrimination is in part to blame."
see p. 1413

https://vanderbiltlawreview.org/lawreview/wp-content/uploads/sites/278/2022/10/Confronting-the-Racial-Pay-Gap.pdf

Ana the Ist · Jan 26, 2023

Akita Suggagaki said:
When human capital, skills, and other factors contributing to the racial wage gap are taken into account, many researchers find that there is still a portion of the racial wage gap that is unexplained. Many attribute this to another factor: race. Differences in wages due solely to race is racial discrimination. Through the use of statistical controls, sociologists and economists "ask whether a given person with the same background characteristics, such as level of education, region of residence, gender, marital characteristics, has the same earnings as a statistically equivalent person from a different racial/ethnic group".[6] Differences that emerge are taken as evidence of racial discrimination. Research has found wage and employment discrimination against blacks, Native Americans, Hispanics, and Asians; however, discrimination has been found to be a much larger contributing factor for black wages than wages of other races

Racial pay gap in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I didn't need a definition. If you have a study that accounts for every possible difference in incomes....let's see it.

rjs330 · Jan 26, 2023

Akita Suggagaki said:
please show your evidence.

Payscale did some research on the subject. While they are heavily screwed on the "America is a systemically racist country" side they did discover some interesting things.

The most interesting is the fact that comparing incomes of various races and ethnicities when comparing the same job with with equal qualifications etc than blacks earned .98 cents in the dollar to whites. Asians earned 1.02 for every dollar earned by whites. Pacific Islanders earned the same as whites.

Now Payscale really wanted to prove the racism so they "supposed" and said "may" be a result of racism, but they couldn't prove it. Why? Because its so small that it "may" be a number of other things that cause the issue of 2 cents.

The logical conclusion is that America is racist towards whites because Asians earn more than their white counterparts.

I was wrong on the annual amount. I think it added up to like $1400 a year difference. Whites earned $1400 a year less than Asians. Earned the same as Pacific Islanders and $700 hundred more than Hispanics.

You can look it up if you want. Bottom line is pay cannot be used as a thing due to the close disparity. Which is hardly much and can be explained by a number of different reasons that have nothing to do with race.

But I don't expect that to make a difference to those who are convinced otherwise. It sure didn't convince Payscale cause they assume it's all race based and never researched it further.

rjs330 · Jan 26, 2023

rturner76 said:
White people also run the banks so they are not being oppressed as a people by Asians. White people run this country, the rest just live here.

"Large racial and gender wage gaps in the U.S. remain, even as they have narrowed in some cases over the years. Among full- and part-time workers in the U.S., blacks in 2015 earned just 75% as much as whites in median hourly earnings and women earned 83% as much as men."

Racial, gender wage gaps persist in U.S. despite some progress

Looking at gender, race and ethnicity combined, all groups, with the exception of Asian men, lag behind white men in terms of median hourly earnings.

www.pewresearch.org

Please show us how much money a black person makes compared to a white person with the exact same job in the exact same area with the exact same qualifications including experience. What's the pay gap there?

Cause your biased article doesn't say. It's meaningless unless you are comparing equally. Which you are not.

rjs330 · Jan 26, 2023

Akita Suggagaki said:
"That means that, in 2019, Black advanced degree holders earned on average 82.4 cents to the dollar of White advanced degree holders. Even a multiple regression analysis that controlled for not only education level but also age, sex, and geographic region of workers revealed a significant, and worsening, gap from 10.2% in 2000 to 14.9% in 2019."
See page 1410

"There is no longer any question about whether racial and gender pay gaps exist; the only question is the size of those gaps depending on the level of adjustments of data. Where no controllable factor accounts for the difference that remains, economists infer that discrimination is in part to blame."
see p. 1413

https://vanderbiltlawreview.org/lawreview/wp-content/uploads/sites/278/2022/10/Confronting-the-Racial-Pay-Gap.pdf

It means no such thing. Because advance degrees could be in any number of fields. It could be in fields that don't pay as well. Which I might add is exactly what blacks are doing right now. They are CHOOSING to enter fields that so not pay as well.

Secondly no consideration is given to experience or other qualifications or even areas where one lives. This is all a farce.

When all things are equal the pay gap is 2 cents on the dollar. Which could be explained by other things than race.

Ana the Ist · Jan 26, 2023

rjs330 said:
It means no such thing. Because advance degrees could be in any number of fields. It could be in fields that don't pay as well. Which I might add is exactly what blacks are doing right now. They are CHOOSING to enter fields that so not pay as well.

Secondly no consideration is given to experience or other qualifications or even areas where one lives. This is all a farce.

When all things are equal the pay gap is 2 cents on the dollar. Which could be explained by other things than race.

Well the problem right off the bat with his link is it's more historical overview than research. It starts with the assumption that the "pay gap" exists due to discrimination....then cherry picks data to support that view.p

However, I don't want to jump the gun and assume that @Akita Suggagaki meant to call that link the research he's basing this belief on. It could just be a good link for that post.

Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

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