Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[RDKirk]

I think black people as a group have a lot of power. Why do you think this entire country was turned upside down when cops put their knee on the neck of a black man; killing him, even though the exact same thing happened to multiple white people without anybody noticing or caring? Why do you think cities burned over the death of black men like Eric Garner, Michael Brown or Tamir Rice, even though far more white men are killed by the police the same way but nobody notices? Don’t know about you, but I call that power.
Even though they have the numbers to have power, they are too diverse of thought to utilize such power. Think about it:

*How many white people love Trump? (half of em)
*How many white people hate Trump? (the other half)
*How many are pro-cop, law and order types? How many are anti-police anarchist?
*How many far right? How many far left?

Now ask yourself those questions concerning black folk. In order to have a power as a race, they would have to agree on the same issues; white people are too diverse when it comes to social issues to have power as a race. If white people had a social outlook like black people; voting for the same political party, mostly in agreement concerning the same issues; etc. they would have such power; but they don’t. Their political and social views are too spread out all over the place to get anything done as a race.

If you take a look at those protests, particularly the violent ones, most of the protesters were white.

White liberals these days use black people as their poster children and stalking horses...but the white liberals retain the actual power.

 

[RDKirk]

They probably don't and that's part of the problem.


Could it be because white officers have more opportunities to thrive?

What does "opportunities to thrive" actually mean?

That's not something a government edict can resolve, which is why nattering about "systemic racism" is useless.

What keeps black people from thriving today is our own culture. The original cause was slavery and then Jim Crow, but for the last 50 years, our dysfunctional culture has been our choice.

 

[Ken-1122]

If you take a look at those protests, particularly the violent ones, most of the protesters were white.

White liberals these days use black people as their poster children and stalking horses...but the white liberals retain the actual power.

Black people started those protests, and the white folks (and everybody else) just got on board. If the black people didn't use their power to go after the cops that did this, nobody else would have cared. Then of course the white anarchists (ANTIFA Black Blok etc.) began to use it as an excuse to riot. But still; blacks as a people were able to accomplish this due to their power. If white's as a race had this kinda power, they would use their own beaten and killed by cops victims as their poster children and stalking horses.

 

[RDKirk]

Black people started those protests, and the white folks (and everybody else) just got on board. If the black people didn't use their power to go after the cops that did this, nobody else would have cared. Then of course the white anarchists (ANTIFA Black Blok etc.) began to use it as an excuse to riot. But still; blacks as a people were able to accomplish this due to their power. If white's as a race had this kinda power, they would use their own beaten and killed by cops victims as their poster children and stalking horses.

Starting a protest is not power, it's just noise. It only gets the attention of powerful people who can use that noise to flex their power to their own ends.

There are lots of protests...have been for decades. You don't even hear about most of them because most of them don't get the attention of powerful people.

 

[rturner76]

Inequality of outcomes are not examples of systemic racism; even though there is no shortage of people writing articles claiming that it is.

It's more like inequality in every area of life. There is a pattern present.

 

[rturner76]

What does "opportunities to thrive" actually mean?

That's not something a government edict can resolve, which is why nattering about "systemic racism" is useless.

What keeps black people from thriving today is our own culture. The original cause was slavery and then Jim Crow, but for the last 50 years, our dysfunctional culture has been our choice.

I think some is self-perpetuating but black people are put in ghettos and segregated communities where there is crime. By "opportunities" I mean job advancement, promotions and hiring practices that still in my opinion favor white male candidates.

The systemic part is not that it's legal to discriminate but I think it's still quite a significant factor.

 

[Ken-1122]

Maybe if us white folk were better at sensing injustices and protesting, we wouldn’t have to rely on black folk to do the consciousness-raising for us?

White people can sense injustices done to them just like blacks can or anybody else can. The difference is, due to real racism of their ancestors, they have this white guilt that many blacks use as a cudgel against them, because most of their power is based on the use of that cudgel, and nobody wants to lose their power. So in order to appease others they are quick to get on board to fight injustices against everybody except for injustices done against themselves

 

[Ken-1122]

It's more like inequality in every area of life. There is a pattern present.

If that were the case, immigrant blacks from the Diaspora would struggle to the same extent as native blacks (ADOS). But that isn't the case is it, for some reason; even their children seem to do so much better than children of ADOS. Ya think culture might have something to do with it???

 

[rturner76]

If that were the case, immigrant blacks from the Diaspora would struggle to the same extent as native blacks (ADOS). But that isn't the case is it, for some reason; even their children seem to do so much better than children of ADOS. Ya think culture might have something to do with it???

I'm sure it does have something to do with it but it's not the only factor. Immigrants of every color get support when they arrive and they help each other. Blacks from the diaspora have more obstacles. They are not insurmountable but there are more obstacles when you consider the king's English not always being fluent in the black community.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Just saw this move from desantis
DeSantis Blocks AP African-American Studies Course for Breaking Florida’s Anti-CRT Law

The College Board, which seemingly gave in on some points but said it wasn't giving in, had the temerity to say DeSantis' statement that the new class lacked educational value was slander. Ergo:

DeSantis threatens to rid Florida of Advanced Placement classes​

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis threatened Tuesday to withdraw state support for Advanced Placement programs and expand other methods of awarding college credit to high school students, escalating a highly unusual clash that burst into public last month when his administration rejected plans for a new AP African American studies course.

“AP is kind of with the College Board,” DeSantis said. “Who elected them? Are there other people that provide services? Turns out there are.” He cited the International Baccalaureate and Cambridge Assessment programs as alternatives that — like AP — enable students to qualify for college credit after passing an exam. He also plugged dual enrollment programs that let high school students take classes from professors at nearby colleges.

As a practical matter, it is unclear whether or how AP could be eliminated in Florida. The program, with more than three dozen courses in math, science, social sciences, humanities, languages and other topics, is deeply entrenched in the state and nationwide.
More than 199,000 Florida students enrolled in AP classes in 2020-21. About 366,000 AP tests were given in Florida in 2021

--

While the College Board does have a pretty sweet gravy train going (mainly with the PSAT/SAT), this overreaction by DeSantis is pretty absurd.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm sure it does have something to do with it but it's not the only factor. Immigrants of every color get support when they arrive and they help each other.

They don't get that much help, and ADOS blacks do get a pretty good amount of help, and have been, since the mid-60s.

I worked with a Cameroonian woman and a Sundanese man back in the late 80s in DC. Both of them worked extremely harder than most black people. The young woman was a student at UDC on a basketball scholarship, working part time. She once asked me in exasperation (right around finals) why her black American team mates consistently spent their scholarship money on clothes, then when it was time for finals, insisted that she lend them her books.

The Sudanese guy had come to the US with his brother a couple of years before I met him, both having nothing more than a suitcase between them. They had a small apartment and both of them were doing the "immigrant with five part-time jobs" thing, saving every cent they could. Their dream was to own a restaurant one day. He told me, they always made sure one of their part-time jobs was in a Chinese restaurant because that's how they learned to handle the restaurant business in America as immigrants...those jobs were their school.

After about a year, the Sudanese guy disappeared from work. I checked on him and discovered that he and his brother had bought a Dunkin Donut store. It wasn't the restaurant they dreamed of, but the previous owner had decided to retire and was looking for someone with ready cash to buy him out. The had just enough cash...it wasn't an extreme amount, but it was cash.

Three years in America, working hard and smart, made them ready when an unexpected opportunity presented itself.

Blacks from the diaspora have more obstacles.

What "more obstacles" besides a dysfunctional culture? It's not our fault that our original native African cultures were stripped from us, and not our fault that we could only develop a crippled, Bizarro form of Anglo-American culture through slavery and Jim Crow up to the 60s.

But it is our fault that we have clung to that dysfunctional culture in the 50 years since, and in fact, doubled down on making it even more dysfunctional than it was 50 years ago. Our dysfunction has been our choice for half a century.

They are not insurmountable but there are more obstacles when you consider the king's English not always being fluent in the black community.

Why should ADOS blacks be less fluent in English than immigrants? For sure, we can say English is not our African "mother tongue," but at worst that's no different from an immigrant African.

Ebonics is not our "mother tongue" either. Ebonics is a chitllin dialect, the entrails of English, and it's of no better use to us than a diet of chitlins.

When I was a kid and watched my grandfather slaughter a hog, I asked him why he threw away the chitlins. He told me, "Boy, when you have the ham, you don't eat the chitlins."

We have the ham--standard English--available to us. Why are we still clinging to the chitlins?

 

[rambot]

The College Board, which seemingly gave in on some points but said it wasn't giving in, had the temerity to say DeSantis' statement that the new class lacked educational value was slander. Ergo:

DeSantis threatens to rid Florida of Advanced Placement classes​

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis threatened Tuesday to withdraw state support for Advanced Placement programs and expand other methods of awarding college credit to high school students, escalating a highly unusual clash that burst into public last month when his administration rejected plans for a new AP African American studies course.

“AP is kind of with the College Board,” DeSantis said. “Who elected them? Are there other people that provide services? Turns out there are.” He cited the International Baccalaureate and Cambridge Assessment programs as alternatives that — like AP — enable students to qualify for college credit after passing an exam. He also plugged dual enrollment programs that let high school students take classes from professors at nearby colleges.

As a practical matter, it is unclear whether or how AP could be eliminated in Florida. The program, with more than three dozen courses in math, science, social sciences, humanities, languages and other topics, is deeply entrenched in the state and nationwide.
More than 199,000 Florida students enrolled in AP classes in 2020-21. About 366,000 AP tests were given in Florida in 2021

--

While the College Board does have a pretty sweet gravy train going (mainly with the PSAT/SAT), this overreaction by DeSantis is pretty absurd.

It's responses like this that make me worried about DeSantis getting elected. Because that's kinda narcissistic behaviour. And he's a MUCH smarter and put together person than Trump. Vindictiveness is NOT something a head of state should have as a character traits.

 

[RDKirk]

I think some is self-perpetuating but black people are put in ghettos and segregated communities where there is crime.

Were put. Were put.

There are no walls around ghettos and segregated communities.

By "opportunities" I mean job advancement, promotions and hiring practices that still in my opinion favor white male candidates.

The systemic part is not that it's legal to discriminate but I think it's still quite a significant factor.

I would argue that being male is not a big help to white men compared to white women, except that aggressive feminism can make "girl bosses" more obnoxious even to other women than male bosses. I know quite a few women who would rather work for men in managerial and executive positions.

And much can be said for blacks in those positions when they cling to chitllin culture instead of getting with the standard Anglo culture...which most immigrants do.

Anything that can work for a Nigerian immigrant can work for ADOS. It's clinging to dysfunctions of our own slavery-originated culture that keeps us back these days.

 

[Ken-1122]

I'm sure it does have something to do with it but it's not the only factor. Immigrants of every color get support when they arrive and they help each other. Blacks from the diaspora have more obstacles. They are not insurmountable but there are more obstacles when you consider the king's English not always being fluent in the black community.

Then why are they so successful compared to us? Heck; Nigerians even do better than white people; they are on par with Asians;

https://www.ozy.com/around-the-world/the-most-successful-ethnic-group-in-the-u-s-may-surprise-you/86885/

of course their culture is pretty close to Asians as well; (but we don't wanna talk about that do we) and their skin is as dark as ours!

 

[rturner76]

Why should ADOS blacks be less fluent in English than immigrants?

Ask our poor education system.

Anything that can work for a Nigerian immigrant can work for ADOS.

We don't share the same history. It would be nice if "ADOS" blacks could get equal treatment but they don't

 

[rturner76]

of course their culture is pretty close to Asians as well; (but we don't wanna talk about that do we) and their skin is as dark as ours!

They don't have the same history of oppression

 

[RDKirk]

They don't have the same history of oppression

Ask our poor education system.

We don't share the same history. It would be nice if "ADOS" blacks could get equal treatment but they don't

Okay, so that's progress. We've gotten you from "systemic racism" to "our history."

Our history has resulted in the current ADOS dysfunctional chitlin culture. Those of us who cling closely to that dysfunctional culture, rather than putting away its dysfunctional activities, remain behind.

Those of us who put way those dysfunctional chitlin cultural activities get ahead. That has been true since the end of slavery, even though Jim Crow kept us from getting as much ahead as we could have gotten. If not for Jim Crow, our Reconstruction ancestors were well on the way of putting slavery behind them.

But many of us not only cling to those dysfunctions...but have even added new dysfunctions, such as making unwed motherhood an earmark of ADOS culture. That's a whole new way of falling behind that we didn't practice until the 1980s.

Culture is a choice. It wasn't always a choice, but for the last 50 years, it's been a choice.

 

[rturner76]

Culture is a choice. It wasn't always a choice, but for the last 50 years, it's been a choice.

Many don't have a choice when the neighborhood they grew up in makes it more profitable to deal in the drugs and guns that are flown in by our own government to destabilize black neighborhoods. There is a huge problem with single motherhood but that problem is going on with all races. Divide and conquer is the system and people of color get the bad end of the stick when it comes to piling people up in ghettos where there are no opportunities.

 

[RDKirk]

Many don't have a choice when the neighborhood they grew up in makes it more profitable to deal in the drugs and guns that are flown in by our own government to destabilize black neighborhoods.

That happened, but that was 50 years ago.

There is a huge problem with single motherhood but that problem is going on with all races.

And I'd point to the same cause: Radical feminism. Black women bought into "don't need a man" more quickly than white women did because of the way slavery and Jim Crow kept black women off the "wife and mother" pedestal. Radical feminism has, indeed, been working its way into the thought of younger white women over the last 50 years. That's another case of black people being the canary in the coal mine.

Divide and conquer is the system and people of color get the bad end of the stick when it comes to piling people up in ghettos where there are no opportunities.

I guess my family got missed by the Gestapo that was rounding us up and herding us into those trains bound for the ghettos.

 

[Ken-1122]

They don't have the same history of oppression

Their history is worse! Slaves that was sold and brought to the west indies (Caribbean's and Bahamas) had it much worse than slaves sold to the United States. Their ancestors had it much worse than ours.