Mixed Messages.....

[RND]

I'm curious how you are differentiating "character" and "nature."

Nature is the attribute that describes the 'natural state of being.' God is the opposite of hate because He is the complete picture of perfect love. Everything God does is a result of His perfect love.

Character is the attribute that describes 'individual characteristics.' Even though God is the complete picture of perfect love God still has characteristics that include anger and pity.

 

[StormyOne]

Nature is the attribute that describes the 'natural state of being.' God is the opposite of hate because He is the complete picture of perfect love. Everything God does is a result of His perfect love.

Character is the attribute that describes 'individual characteristics.' Even though God is the complete picture of perfect love God still has characteristics that include anger and pity.

Just because someone believes God can be angry does not make it so.... Suggesting that we can know all the characteristics of the Supreme Being is a tenuous position to hold.....

 

[RND]

Just because someone believes God can be angry does not make it so....

You mean you have no examples of God ever being angry?

Suggesting that we can know all the characteristics of the Supreme Being is a tenuous position to hold.....

For some? But only for those that that don't want to know God's nature and character.

Isa 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Jer 24:7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I [am] the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

This would be why we don't teach nuclear physics to first graders.

or pigs to sing for that matter.

 

[StormyOne]

You mean you have no examples of God ever being angry?



For some? But only for those that that don't want to know God's nature and character.

Isa 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Jer 24:7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I [am] the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

as I said, just because some believe that God can exhibit anger, does not make it so.... since God did not write the bible, Isaiah and Jeremiah are sharing their perceptions of what they believe.... That would go under the heading, "just because someone said that "God said" does not make it so."

 

[AzA]

Your point is demonstrated in a practical why through the great diversity of interpretations of scripture. Everyone reading the same work. There's not even a coalescing over time with many key issues.

This is because there is just as much diversity at the level of assumptions.

Change angles at the assumption level, and great variability results at conclusions.

The game of billiards relies on this premise. And so does knowledge-making.

Same cue ball. Same stick. Different angles. Different shots.

(And sometimes the angle is wildly improbable -- but that makes it 10x better when the ball goes in the pocket.)

 

[RND]

as I said, just because some believe that God can exhibit anger, does not make it so.... since God did not write the bible, Isaiah and Jeremiah are sharing their perceptions of what they believe.... That would go under the heading, "just because someone said that "God said" does not make it so."

Where you are missing the point Stormy is that God has indeed revealed Himself to us and shown us His nature and character. He has done that through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Tell me Stormy do you believe Jesus when He tells Phillip, "...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father..."?

 

[AzA]

To see and to understand? Not even on the same page.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Where you are missing the point Stormy is that God has indeed revealed Himself to us and shown us His nature and character. He has done that through His Son, Jesus Christ.

And some apparently seem to believe themselves possessed of 100% impeccably perfect comprehension, flawless understanding, and entirely accurate perceptions broad enough to encompass every possible awareness in the universe when it comes to their grasp of this revelation.

And there they would be wrong.

 

[StormyOne]

Where you are missing the point Stormy is that God has indeed revealed Himself to us and shown us His nature and character. He has done that through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Tell me Stormy do you believe Jesus when He tells Phillip, "...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father..."?

last I checked Jesus didn't write the bible either.... so are you asking me if I believe what someone said Jesus said? I do know that Jesus did not speak in old english, so if he did say it he certainly did not say, "he that hath...."

What I believe is that Jesus being God gave people a living object lesson about who God was/is..... they did not grasp it... and we still don't.... because if we did, we would stop saying God sent his son..... Jesus is God... not the son of God.... and that has interesting ramifications.....

 

[StormyOne]

And some apparently seem to believe themselves possessed of 100% impeccably perfect comprehension, flawless understanding, and entirely accurate perceptions broad enough to encompass every possible awareness in the universe when it comes to their grasp of this revelation.

And there they would be wrong.

exactly......

 

[RND]

And some apparently seem to believe themselves possessed of 100% impeccably perfect comprehension, flawless understanding, and entirely accurate perceptions broad enough to encompass every possible awareness in the universe when it comes to their grasp of this revelation.

And there they would be wrong.

I'm sure, but I think the one's you might be referring to here don't have an eye on Jesus Christ.

 

[RND]

last I checked Jesus didn't write the bible either.... so are you asking me if I believe what someone said Jesus said? I do know that Jesus did not speak in old english, so if he did say it he certainly did not say, "he that hath...."

Can you believe that God "inspired" people to write the truth of their witness?

What I believe is that Jesus being God gave people a living object lesson about who God was/is.....

No doubt. That's all I've been saying.

they did not grasp it...

Many didn't. Some did.

and we still don't....

Many don't. Some do.

because if we did, we would stop saying God sent his son.....

Why?

Jesus is God... not the son of God....

Why did Jesus start His prayers with, "Father...."?

BTW Stormy, maybe you would be kind enough to give us a discourse in why Jesus as God on Earth never relied on His own divinity on Earth but just the Father's.

and that has interesting ramifications.....

Indeed. Both pro and con. You've got the con down pat Stormy. Now if we could just work on the pro.

 

[Avonia]

This is because there is just as much diversity at the level of assumptions.

Of course. This is why there are hundreds of well-reasoned posts (just in the last few months) on Sabbath between a few people on this forum with no coalescing whatsoever.

Being reasonable is different than sharing assumptions. Evangelism is an example. We sometimes change a person's assumptions under the guise of reasoning.

Senti is delightful in this way - he challenges both assumptions and reasoning.

 

[Avonia]

Why did Jesus start His prayers with, "Father...."?

For reasons related to why God is called "He."

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Would it be arrogant at all to suggest that for some questions, those not directly experiencing the ramifications thereof, nor having genuine heart-wrung compassion toward those who do, should politely leave

If no one is immune from suffering, who then would politely leave? Your appeal to compassion is well taken.

for others to wrestle instead of offering the same tiresome and detached platitudes --

Have I offered platitudes? If I have, they could not have been made because I am detatched from suffering.

and embroiling themselves in judgment of another's character, motives, intents, whatever, in the process --

Have I judged anyone, other than to suggest that there is no one who understands?

which in turn comes across as calloused and abusive toward those affected and afflicted?

This is conditioned upon the premise that there is judgment.

Or would it be more accurate to state that these questions affect us all because to some degree everyone has been afflicted, everyone has tasted suffering?

Yes, I believe that this is more accruate.

BFA

 

[Adventtruth]

SIN.

You are looking at the root of problems in this world with you sin responce. But you must admit that Stormy is thinking outside the box. He is asking a good question. I took an air craft back to St. Louis this past week. Sometimes they crash. Why is it if God loves us, He permits some to crash and others to land unharmed?

 

[StormyOne]

You are looking at the root of problems in this world with you sin responce. But you must admit that Stormy is thinking outside the box. He is asking a good question. I took an air craft back to St. Louis this past week. Sometimes they crash. Why is it if God loves us, He permits some to crash and others to land unharmed?

AT on this I agree with you.... where is that handshaking smiley when you need it?

 

[StormyOne]

Can you believe that God "inspired" people to write the truth of their witness?

God did not correct them when they were mistaken...so just because they were inspired and wrote it down, does not make it truth....

Why did Jesus start His prayers with, "Father...."?

When my kids were small, my wife called me daddy, and I called her mommy, even though I am not her father and she is not my mother......

BTW Stormy, maybe you would be kind enough to give us a discourse in why Jesus as God on Earth never relied on His own divinity on Earth but just the Father's.

You don't have enough information about Jesus or his life to make that statement, unless you are suggesting that the NT contains all that Jesus ever did while on earth.... Since it does not, one cannot say he did not use his divinity on earth, especially since he was a hybrid, where did humanity end and divinity begin?

Indeed. Both pro and con. You've got the con down pat Stormy. Now if we could just work on the pro.

You are free to work on the position of your choosing... my intent for starting this thread is to dispell some of the myths people have told about God...

 

[Avonia]

When my kids were small, my wife called me daddy, and I called her mommy, even though I am not her father and she is not my mother......