Mixed Messages.....

[RND]

as Moriah suggested, let it go....

Hey, I apologized to you, even though I didn't say anything that needed an apology, so it would appear to me you might just be the one that isn't "letting go."

your comments on this thread have shown you have not understood neither the OP nor the scope of the OP as it relates to what is said about God..... this is one you just "aren't getting" and its okay....

I understand the OP and you quite well. You along with millions upon millions have a very difficult time understanding God and understanding the depths of His love. This thread is a perfect example of the tremendous lack of understanding that you have about God's love, mercy, tenderness and grace.

You posted a picture of the supposed image of Jesus with the caption, "His eye is on the sparrow. I know He watches me." And underneath it two pictures of women that were apparently victims of abuse. Your comment was, "watches me get abused?" The question mark is telling. It reveals to me a tremendous lack of understanding regarding the tremendous risks that God took in order to turn those that have gone astray back towards Him.

And yes, unfortunately, God watches people being abused. And wrongly treated. And wrongly accused. And wrongly beaten and killed. We could could on but the list of sins that God sees committed against His children BY His children is simply staggering. Put yourself in His shoes. While you worry about whether God cares, God worries whether you care enough to embrace the love He has already poured out and demonstrated through His Son Jesus Christ.

Do you still think God doesn't care?

You said to the poster Ricker, "I am not atheist, nor am I blaming God... I submitted for your consideration things that christians say about God, and the reality that we see..... so how do we reconcile the two?"

Jesus Christ is how the two are "reconciled" because you see Stormy we aren't in a battle to where God needs to be "reconciled" to us. We are in a battle where we need to be reconciled to God. God has offered atonement on His part, we are in an extremely hellish battle to accept it.

Way back in post 13 of this thread I asked you this question and still haven't seen a response to it.

Stormy,

When it was said to Adam in the garden, "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Do you see that as a warning or a threat from God?

How you see God and how you understand what He has done and the great lengths that He has gone to reconcile His creation back to Him is what makes all the difference in what type of God you believe we have. Do you see God as a brooding tyrant, uncaring and distant, ready to burn for all eternity those that don't willingly love such a brutal tyrant? Or do you see God in the life and actions of His Son Jesus Christ?

You opinion and understanding of God are very clear Stormy. Had you had any clear knowledge and understanding of God's true nature and character you never would have posted this OP in the first place.

 

[RND]

Stormy,

In the prison ministry that I'm apart of the new prisoners to our group are asked the following four questions. These four questions are designed to open the eyes of those that have experienced in life most of what you managed to encapsulate in the photos you presented. That explains why these are criminals and prisoners in the first place.

But as I am fond of saying to them, and to anyone that will listen when I talk about prison ministries, unfortunately you are a prisoner as well. We all are. The difference between them is they are on the inside of of a prison, you and everyone else are just on the outside.

The Four Questions…


1.)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]What if I told you that your youngest child was murdered? Would you want mercy or justice for the perpetrator?

2.)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]What if I told you that the murderer was your oldest child? Would you want mercy or justice for the perpetrator?

3.)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]What if I told you that you are guilty of the murder of the only begotten Son of God? Would you want mercy or justice as the perpetrator?

4.)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]What if I told you that you had a daughter, your only daughter, the apple of your eye, who has never given you a moment’s grief. Tonight, you have your tux hanging in the closet, because tomorrow you are scheduled to walk your daughter down the aisle and give her away to someone whom you approve? If you’re the mother, you have your new dress hanging next to the gown that you have been planning and preparing for since the first time she held her in her arms. But tonight, your daughter is at a bachelorette party with her peers and they talk her into having “one-for-the-road,” the first ever in her life. Two, three, four, five, six, seven (drinks) later, while on her way home, she wipes out a school bus full of little children on their way to camp. Everybody aboard the bus dies in a fiery inferno, but you daughter survives. Do you want mercy or justice for your daughter (?) and what do those that are related to those who were on bus want?

The moral of the story is…

The carnal heart has an ingrained sense of justice as long as it doesn’t apply to them or theirs. That is self-righteousness and hypocrisy! Furthermore, Satan knows that God will only forgive us according to our willingness to forgive others. The irony of the whole thing is – “we’re all family.”

As we have received God’s mercy – so are we to bestow the same mercy towards others. “Freely you have received, freely give.” We can hate the sin, but we must love the sinner for “we war not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities in high places.”

 

[gcfrankie]

God is the supreme being of this world! It is in His time frame when one dies. He created us and He can take us.
Storny you made the statement 'Jesus is God', and my question to you is He God the Father or God the Son? If He is God the Father then why did He go into the mountains to pray and why did He ask the Father to forgive them as they no not what they do before His crucifiction? Who was He praying to? The Holy Spirit, the angels, etc? He also taught the apostles to pray 'Our Father'.
Yes the bible was written by men in the ot and nt but was it inspired by God? If you do not believe this then I would suggest you stick your bible on a book shelf along with other bible writers.
The bible is the inspired word of God. Are we to worship it or is it a learning tool to
teach and lead us from sin and false teachings back to Him? Yes there are many things we will not understand as we are sinful and God is holy.
In Genesis 1:26: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. What is His image? Is it not to love one another and to forgive? If God was not loving, forgiving and patient then why has He continued to allow this world to continue if not to reconcile us to him?
We do not know how long God walked side by side with Adam and Eve in the garden communing with them and that cord was severed when they ate from the fruit after God commanded them not to after they were told the reason why not to.
I know I have diverted from the op but there were many things stated that has blown my mind and felt they needed to be answered and questions asked.
Thank-you for your patience.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Might be more helpful to ask both you and stormy how many Gods you think there are first. It might make a difference in the answers.

 

[Adventtruth]

I will answer, tho they may still fall short.

Stormy,

In the prison ministry that I'm apart of the new prisoners to our group are asked the following four questions. These four questions are designed to open the eyes of those that have experienced in life most of what you managed to encapsulate in the photos you presented. That explains why these are criminals and prisoners in the first place.

But as I am fond of saying to them, and to anyone that will listen when I talk about prison ministries, unfortunately you are a prisoner as well. We all are. The difference between them is they are on the inside of of a prison, you and everyone else are just on the outside.

The Four Questions…


1.)What if I told you that your youngest child was murdered? Would you want mercy or justice for the perpetrator?

My first reaction would be shock. I know I would want justice. But I too would seek God to heal my broken-heart for forgivness for the perpetrator.

2.)

What if I told you that the murderer was your oldest child? Would you want mercy or justice for the perpetrator?

If that was the case, I would seek the mental institutions for her becasue I would feel she was metally unstable. At the same time I would seek Gods face for not only my broken heart, byt my wifes aswell.

3.)

What if I told you that you are guilty of the murder of the only begotten Son of God? Would you want mercy or justice as the perpetrator?

I believe I have been down this road daily. Mercy every time.

4.)

What if I told you that you had a daughter, your only daughter, the apple of your eye, who has never given you a moment’s grief. Tonight, you have your tux hanging in the closet, because tomorrow you are scheduled to walk your daughter down the aisle and give her away to someone whom you approve? If you’re the mother, you have your new dress hanging next to the gown that you have been planning and preparing for since the first time she held her in her arms. But tonight, your daughter is at a bachelorette party with her peers and they talk her into having “one-for-the-road,” the first ever in her life. Two, three, four, five, six, seven (drinks) later, while on her way home, she wipes out a school bus full of little children on their way to camp. Everybody aboard the bus dies in a fiery inferno, but you daughter survives. Do you want mercy or justice for your daughter

Mercy of course.

(?) and what do those that are related to those who were on bus want?

I understand they would love their children as much as I love mine. The natural reaction of those parents would be justice.

The moral of the story is…

The carnal heart has an ingrained sense of justice as long as it doesn’t apply to them or theirs. That is self-righteousness and hypocrisy! Furthermore, Satan knows that God will only forgive us according to our willingness to forgive others. The irony of the whole thing is – “we’re all family.”

As we have received God’s mercy – so are we to bestow the same mercy towards others. “Freely you have received, freely give.” We can hate the sin, but we must love the sinner for “we war not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities in high places.”

I agree the heart is sinful and wicked. To that we are all guilty. But to suggest that God only forgives us as we forgive others only shows that its impossible for God to forgive those who will not forgive...those who never trusted God from His calling through the gospel. I've read all the text under the New Covenant about forgivness and are we to understand Christ words as if they are legalistic and binding law upon His children as if its a do now or be lost? Thats not the heart of God.

King David lusted after Bathsheba, slept with her, Got her with child, plotted agaist her husband, murdered her husband, covered it up as if nothing happened. This sinfulness of King David played out over about a years time becasue the bible tells us that she had the baby. About a year latter God sent Nathan to David with the news of his sin. During the whole year David was not cast aside by God, tho he was out of fellowship with God, but not lost.

Some times we too maybe in a situation where we dont always repent and ask for forgivness. But has God cast us away? No. Just as he sent Nathan to David, He sends the Holy Spirit to remind us of our sins that we too can be broken and repent. Some times it takes longer for some and shorter for others. But its Gods power through the gospel that leads us to forgivness and repentence.

The thing with forgivness that many of us don't undersand is that Gods forgivness with us is a forensic forgivness...it legal forginess. We stand forgiven before Him legally. Its very hard to undo that type of forgivness. Tho we stand forgiven, not becasue of what we have done, but becasue of what He has done, is a sure bet that we did not earn our forgivness through right doing. We have that standing of passing from darkness into light because of His mrecy and grace through faith. So like wise, our sins against Him dont throw us back into darkness and condemnation. Our hard hearts dont mean we are lost. If we, after trust Christ as our savour, are found to be with a heard heart and living as if I am back in the world, then God ministers to us. If Gods loving influence does not then penetrate our sinful and hard hearts, then chance are my trust is in question.


AT

 

[RND]

Some times we too maybe in a situation where we dont always repent and ask for forgivness. But has God cast us away? No. Just as he sent Nathan to David, He sends the Holy Spirit to remind us of our sins that we too can be broken and repent. Some times it takes longer for some and shorter for others. But its Gods power through the gospel that leads us to forgivness and repentence.

God is always wooing and always pursuing us!

The thing with forgivness that many of us don't undersand is that Gods forgivness with us is a forensic forgivness...it legal forginess. We stand forgiven before Him legally.

The old "candy coated-rotten apple" theory?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What law is there that requires the innocent to die for the guilty?

Would we see justice or see abhorrence to say that a 2 month old baby would be an adequate substitute for the sins of Charles Mansion?

There was no law that required God to sacrifice the innocent (Jesus) for the guilty (sinners - us). It was done out of love, as a gift.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The true purpose of atonement is to reveal to us God's true nature and true character and His willingness to freely offer Himself for a ransom for sinful man.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[StormyOne]

not interested in following you RND down a rabbit trail given your belief that he knows all the answers..... you have not understood the OP and you really don't know me so please don't presume that you do..... you have no clue....

 

[RND]

not interested in following you RND down a rabbit trail given your belief that he knows all the answers.....

Oh, Good Lord! I certainly don't have all the answers, that's for sure! But that's not to say I don't have a more "in-depth" understanding of the love of God and the love He bestows on ALL His creatures. Crack open the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John sometime. God's character and nuture is revealed in all it's awesome and stunning glory!

Is it possible to have an understanding about the character and nature of God that's above that of another? Certainly. It's simply the difference between being in kindergarten and still playing in the sandbox versus going to grad school.

you have not understood the OP and you really don't know me so please don't presume that you do.....

Oh, I understood the OP just fine. In your attempt to ask a question about God's character you revealed your own.

you have no clue....

Sure I do, you revealed it to me!

 

[Adventtruth]

God is always wooing and always pursuing us!

I agree.

The old "candy coated-rotten apple" theory?

Or would you rather stand in your own righteousness?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Ok!

What law is there that requires the innocent to die for the guilty?

It was not law that Christ had to die. Thats why its called love.

Would we see justice or see abhorrence to say that a 2 month old baby would be an adequate substitute for the sins of Charles Mansion?

What a silly question.

There was no law that required God to sacrifice the innocent (Jesus) for the guilty (sinners - us). It was done out of love, as a gift.

Who said anything less?

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Why did you not quote the context rather than a proof text to support your ideas? Heres a little context.

(Gal 2:18) For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor.
(Gal 2:19) For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.
(Gal 2:20) I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
(Gal 2:21) I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

The true purpose of atonement is to reveal to us God's true nature and true character and His willingness to freely offer Himself for a ransom for sinful man.

If what you mean by nature and character is His righteousness, and His willingness to freely offer Himself for a ransom for sinful man as His forgivness for our sin through the atonement and faith, then we are in agreement. If thats not what you mean, then I disagree.

(Rom 3:21) But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it--
(Rom 3:22) the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
(Rom 3:23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
(Rom 3:24) and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
(Rom 3:25) whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
(Rom 3:26) It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
(Rom 3:27) Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
(Rom 3:28) For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
(Rom 3:29) Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
(Rom 3:30) since God is one--who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
(Rom 3:31) Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So are you standing in Gods righteousness or your own righteousness?


AT

 

[StormyOne]

Oh, Good Lord! I certainly don't have all the answers, that's for sure! But that's not to say I don't have a more "in-depth" understanding of the love of God and the love He bestows on ALL His creatures. Crack open the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John sometime. God's character and nuture is revealed in all it's awesome and stunning glory!

Is it possible to have an understanding about the character and nature of God that's above that of another? Certainly. It's simply the difference between being in kindergarten and still playing in the sandbox versus going to grad school.

Oh, I understood the OP just fine. In your attempt to ask a question about God's character you revealed your own.

Sure I do, you revealed it to me!

no you didn't but if it makes it you feel better I'll pretend you did... The OP was not about God's character.... but if you wish to make it about that, go right ahead... satisfied now? Boy you really told me.... if I didn't know better I would say you are a psychic friend....

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Is it possible to have an understanding about the character and nature of God that's above that of another? Certainly. It's simply the difference between being in kindergarten and still playing in the sandbox versus going to grad school.

ROFLIAO.

Well RND ... Moriah had been politely biting its tongue till it bled, holding back in an attempt to refrain from inadvertently insulting you by speaking the truth. Came THIS CLOSE last night in fact, but felt it should restrain just a little longer.

But since you seem to have the entire picture backwards, it will refrain no longer. Last night it restrained itself from saying this, and tonight, ironically, it finds you have already "gone there" -- so it will hold back no longer:

Everyone here seems to be tiptoeing around your posts trying not to say the obvious because we know it would only sound insulting and we'd like to be better and more tolerant people than that. But there comes a point at which the little ones need to be tucked up into bed so the grownups can resume their conversations in peace.​

Seriously all you have done here has been the equivalent of walking into a conference where a few physicists have assembled, get out your fifth-grader chart featuring the "solar system style" model of the atom, and start screaming at us about how far greater your knowledge of God --oops, it means the atom-- surpasses ours. In keeping with the analogy, we would like to continue discussing the logistics and blueprints for the particle accelerator for which we assembled in the first place, so would you kindly stop interrupting and wasting our time with your insistence that particle accelerators cannot be built because the atom looks like THIS and with your continual shouting and foot-stamping over your supposed superior knowledge? We'd sure appreciate it. Thanks.

Let's get one thing straight. Your knowledge of God does not surpass anyone else's here, and your wanton display of arrogance and continual attention-whoring and inflated ego suggest, in fact, the precise opposite. If you really want to be respected as spiritually, morally, or intellectually superior then act like it: display a humble attitude and an ability to engage the actual subject instead of regurgitating flat two-dimensional platitudes the rest of us recognize AS "spiritual kindergarten" because we remember being done with it decades ago.

 

[StormyOne]

Moriah..... amen.... thank you..... thank you.... and thank you.....

 

[Avonia]

ROFLIAO

The lingo is KILLING me - must decode . . .

ROFLIAO

Right On . . .

Rolling On Floor Lest I . . .

Rolling On Floor Laughing In . . .

Oh . . . it's Moriah . . so it's ITS

Rolling On Floor Laughing Its . . . oh I get it now!

 

[RND]

Or would you rather stand in your own righteousness?

I don't that's possible, nor do I think Christ's blood covers us like the candy coating on a rotten apple. I think when we ingest the passover lamb we are ingesting the nature and character of God. We become transfoprmed by becoming Him.

Jhn 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. Jhn 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

What a silly question.

Maybe. But it does illustrate the wonderful gift that Christ gave of Himself to reconcile back to God the Father.

Why did you not quote the context rather than a proof text to support your ideas? Heres a little context.

(Gal 2:18) For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor.
(Gal 2:19) For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God.
(Gal 2:20) I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
(Gal 2:21) I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Because whether I quote the one verse or the whole chapter it makes to difference regarding the impact of what Paul wrote. Christ died for me.

If what you mean by nature and character is His righteousness, and His willingness to freely offer Himself for a ransom for sinful man as His forgivness for our sin through the atonement and faith, then we are in agreement. If thats not what you mean, then I disagree.

Well there are many aspects of God's character and nature revealed in His Son, not just His willingness to offer Himself a ransom for sinners. There is caring, tenderness, friendship, healing, mercy, grace, kindness, forgiveness etc. I think any attribute we can associate with love Christ possessed.

So are you standing in Gods righteousness or your own righteousness?

Isn't it obvious?

 

[RND]

Were you intending to say anything here?

ROFLIAO.

Well RND ... Moriah had been politely biting its tongue till it bled, holding back in an attempt to refrain from inadvertently insulting you by speaking the truth. Came THIS CLOSE last night in fact, but felt it should restrain just a little longer.

But since you seem to have the entire picture backwards, it will refrain no longer. Last night it restrained itself from saying this, and tonight, ironically, it finds you have already "gone there" -- so it will hold back no longer:

Everyone here seems to be tiptoeing around your posts trying not to say the obvious because we know it would only sound insulting and we'd like to be better and more tolerant people than that. But there comes a point at which the little ones need to be tucked up into bed so the grownups can resume their conversations in peace.​

Speak!

Seriously all you have done here has been the equivalent of walking into a conference where a few physicists have assembled, get out your fifth-grader chart featuring the "solar system style" model of the atom, and start screaming at us about how far greater your knowledge of God --oops, it means the atom-- surpasses ours. In keeping with the analogy, we would like to continue discussing the logistics and blueprints for the particle accelerator for which we assembled in the first place, so would you kindly stop interrupting and wasting our time with your insistence that particle accelerators cannot be built because the atom looks like THIS and with your continual shouting and foot-stamping over your supposed superior knowledge? We'd sure appreciate it. Thanks.

You know, everyone has an opinion. You know what they say about opinions don't you?

Let's get one thing straight. Your knowledge of God does not surpass anyone else's here, and your wanton display of arrogance and continual attention-whoring and inflated ego suggest, in fact, the precise opposite.

Dear it's just like anything else, some people simply have more knowledge of a particular subject than others. Many of you, especially you and Stormy, have displayed your ignorance of the topic at hand by your answers to the basic questions that have been asked. Is that my problem? No not at all. You have the same Bible I have. When it comes to the mystery of how, why and what some people perceive the Bible stories tell them I can't answer.

Some see God as an uncaring, aloof and distant God. Other's see the unbounded abundance of perfect love. Go figure.

If you really want to be respected as spiritually, morally, or intellectually superior then act like it: display a humble attitude and an ability to engage the actual subject instead of regurgitating flat two-dimensional platitudes the rest of us recognize AS "spiritual kindergarten" because we remember being done with it decades ago.

Honestly, whether you respect me is insignificant and has absolutely no bearing as to how I feel regarding my walk with God and Jesus Christ. I don't play in the sand box anymore.

 

[RND]

no you didn't but if it makes it you feel better I'll pretend you did... The OP was not about God's character....

How could it be when you make an obvious post that impugns it? When one is left to post pictures that obviously blame God for the abuse we see in the world, in spite of all the contrary evidence of God's matchless love, then I can only deduce that you have no knowledge of God.

but if you wish to make it about that, go right ahead... satisfied now?

It was about that from the get go.

Boy you really told me.... if I didn't know better I would say you are a psychic friend....

No need to be psychic Stormy. You revealed your lack of knowledge about God the minute you hit "submit reply."

 

[StormyOne]

How could it be when you make an obvious post that impugns it? When one is left to post pictures that obviously blame God for the abuse we see in the world, in spite of all the contrary evidence of God's matchless love, then I can only deduce that you have no knowledge of God.



It was about that from the get go.



No need to be psychic Stormy. You revealed your lack of knowledge about God the minute you hit "submit reply."

You feel better that you got that off your chest? Anything else you feel compelled to share "O wise one?" We await your next proclamation..... where have you been all of our lives as we have stumbled around in darkness? You've made it clear that you have the answer and enlightenment we need.....

so clueless you are..... when (if ever) you understand the OP get back to us okay... in the meantime I am sure there is forum somewhere in need of your service and the members share your penchant for two dimensional thought.....

 

[Adventtruth]

I don't that's possible, nor do I think Christ's blood covers us like the candy coating on a rotten apple.

If you believe its His blood or if you call it His righteousness imputed to you, its not your own.

Abraham's faith was credited to him for righteousness
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin​

Romans 4:1-8 (KJV)

I think when we ingest the passover lamb we are ingesting the nature and character of God. We become transfoprmed by becoming Him.

So now the truth of you has come out. Sorry I can't believe the Catholic teaching of Transubstantiation. Nor do I believe we become God.

Jhn 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. Jhn 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

This passage is an obvious reference to trusting Christ under the sign of the New Covenant to which you seem to not understand.

Because whether I quote the one verse or the whole chapter it makes to difference regarding the impact of what Paul wrote. Christ died for me.

That you may obtain and stand in Christ righteousness and not your own by thinking that the little bread and juice/wine you drink some how turns into the body and blood of Christ....but to each his own.

Isn't it obvious?

Not when you believe in the doctrine of Transubstantiation

 

[RND]

You feel better that you got that off your chest? Anything else you feel compelled to share "O wise one?" We await your next proclamation..... where have you been all of our lives as we have stumbled around in darkness? You've made it clear that you have the answer and enlightenment we need.....

so clueless you are..... when (if ever) you understand the OP get back to us okay... in the meantime I am sure there is forum somewhere in need of your service and the members share your penchant for two dimensional thought.....

It isn't I that's denying the obvious. You set in motion your understanding in your post to Mankin.

I fail to see your point in this. Do you think these messages should be removed? There's no good answer for all the suffering in the world. However, God doesn't usually intervene in the will of other human beings aka Hitler, terroists, bad leaders, and all those other people.

Also, what's the use of a heaven if our world is perfect? Jesus reverbalized over and over that things would be bad

What then is the point of saying that God cares, God will take care of you, that God watches over you when that is not the case? If God does not intervene, then why pray for protection or deliverance from harm when that may not happen? Your last point suggests then that for people to look forward to (and appreciate) heaven they must experience hell here and now?

You know, I never addressed this post of yours. Maybe I should have.

What then is the point of saying that God cares, God will take care of you, that God watches over you when that is not the case?

Who's to say that even in our most difficult and trying times and yes, even that very time that leads to our death that God isn't there protecting us? Why is it that people feel that somehow it is God's responsibility to deliver them from harms way in this life and if He doesn't somehow He's fallen asleep at the wheel? We are never promised that God will deliver us in this life. Peter is a perfect example. Peter was delivered by God from the chains of imprisonment only to be crucified upside down later. Was God not with Him like He was the first time? Was God on a coffee break and didn't hear the "prayer phone" ring? Or could it be that whether in life or in death God promised Peter He would be with him? Isn't it odd that we (including me sometimes) feel we deserve to be delivered in the very body that God give us to worship Him in?

If God does not intervene, then why pray for protection or deliverance from harm when that may not happen?

Why anticipate or assume that God is required somehow to deliver us in this world and not the next? Are you saying that if God doesn't deliver us from starving to death like that little boy in the picture that somehow God can't or won't deliver us in the next life?

Are you suggesting that if God doesn't swoop down with a mighty arm to stop that plane from crashing and burning which results in the death of hundreds that somehow God can't or won't deliver us in the next life?

Are you suggesting that if we are killed unjustly by armies that seek to kill for absolutely no good reason that somehow God can't or won't deliver us in the next life?

Your last point suggests then that for people to look forward to (and appreciate) heaven they must experience hell here and now?

And your questions seem to suggest that it's all God's fault that these things happen when in fact we are at war with an unseen enemy seeking to destroy and devour us and separate us from the matchless love of God.

So tell us Stormy, what point were you trying to make? Hmmmm?

 

[RND]

If you believe its His blood or if you call it His righteousness imputed to you, its not your own.

Abraham's faith was credited to him for righteousness
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin​

Romans 4:1-8 (KJV)

AT, we're on the same page. When I refer to the "candy coated rotten apple" analogy I not suggesting that is some way that isn't a general part of our salvation. Christ's shed blood certainly covers our sin. But it goes much deeper than that. After our sins our covered with His blood we then begin to take on His character and His nature. That shadow was seen in the "eating" of the Passover lamb. We are drawn ever deeper to Christ by what He has done and that is reflected in our lives.

So now the truth of you has come out. Sorry I can't believe the Catholic teaching of Transubstantiation. Nor do I believe we become God.

AT, you're missing a valuable point here. I don't believe in transubstantiation or that we become Gods either. What I am suggesting is that through the Father drawing us ever nearer and our taking in Christ spiritually (is there any other way) we begin to "reflect" the character and nature of Christ. This is how the old man is cast out and the new man realized. What was done physically as a shadow of things to come in the ceremonies and sacrifices of old has been replaced in the spiritual realm by what is done today.

This passage is an obvious reference to trusting Christ under the sign of the New Covenant to which you seem to not understand.

AT, your tone isn't necessary here in light of the many fine comments you've sent me privately regarding a number of my posts here in this thread. Please let's be civil with each other.

What Christ was saying in John here is indeed "spiritual" language and not "literal" language. That's why many of His would be disciples left Him at this time because they did not understand what Jesus was saying was spiritual.

We no longer have to physically take a Passover lamb, kill it and place it's blood on the doorposts of our lives to make sure the angel of death passes over us. But we still do this on a "spiritual" level when we accept the Passover lamb that died on the cross at Calvary. When we "eat" of this lamb that is, take in His life and His word into ours, we are covered with His blood.

That you may obtain and stand in Christ righteousness and not your own by thinking that the little bread and juice/wine you drink some how turns into the body and blood of Christ....but to each his own.

These things are done in an Adventist ceremony as a representation of what was done. Adventist don't, and I certainly don't, believe that Jesus' actual flesh and blood is entering my body.

Not when you believe in the doctrine of Transubstantiation

When I say I don't believe in Transubstantiation are you willing to take my word for it friend? The things we see in type and anti-type from the old and new have been made full in the life and death of Christ.