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Mistranslations of the scripture

imolaavant

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How does one hold the scripture to be accurate after being translated and handed down orally before every being written down? After all, the disciples & apostles were only human.

It seems like there is an awful lot of room for mistranslations and misunderstandings to take place before the bible reached its current form. How does a believer reconcile this?
 

dvd_holc

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Even with the inability of humans to full understand and function perfectly, the bible is the written presence of God. God for reason many reasons and wonders has choosen to manifest Himself through humans and we are able to acheive His intended goals effectively.
 
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InnocentOdion

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How does one hold the scripture to be accurate after being translated and handed down orally before every being written down? After all, the disciples & apostles were only human.

It seems like there is an awful lot of room for mistranslations and misunderstandings to take place before the bible reached its current form. How does a believer reconcile this?
I think that's why people always go back to the Greek and Hebrew texts, and in general, the earliest manuscripts they have. To make sure it's correct and as close to meaning, both literal and hinted at. :)
 
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Key

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How does one hold the scripture to be accurate after being translated and handed down orally before every being written down? After all, the disciples & apostles were only human.

It seems like there is an awful lot of room for mistranslations and misunderstandings to take place before the bible reached its current form. How does a believer reconcile this?

Because it all still makes sense.. and for that to happen... would take nothing short of God.

God Bless

Key
 
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Zeena

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How does one hold the scripture to be accurate after being translated and handed down orally before every being written down? After all, the disciples & apostles were only human.

It seems like there is an awful lot of room for mistranslations and misunderstandings to take place before the bible reached its current form. How does a believer reconcile this?
Reconcile the original Greek or Hebew with the translation your viewing :)
 
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metherion

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There are also a few more things we need to look at.

One, many people in the world at that time were used to recalling long tales and stories and histories orally. This was in a time before the printing press, after all, and since scribes were rare and expensive, oral tradition was much stronger and less error ridden than many people think it was. Remember, thousand line epics like Beowulf and whatnot were almost exculsively oral until a few hundred years ago.

Also, there were several copies spread over a large area. This would provide many copies to compare and reconcile errors from.

That's what I got.

Metherion
 
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ebia

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How does one hold the scripture to be accurate after being translated and handed down orally before every being written down?
Less literate cultures are extremly good at preserving information orally - storytellers get corrected very smartish if the change the story even the slightest. There is good evidence that some Australian indigenous stories describe real events that happened over 10,000 years ago. If people can preserve a story orally for that long, 40 or 50 years is nothing by comparison.

Add to that the likelyhood that most if not all the gospels were written down before the last of the eyewitnesses died and there is every reason to suppose the original manuscripts were accurate retellings of the story.

Those documents were then copied into multiple copies very quickly, so lots of very early copies exist to compare against each other and check to see for discrepancies in copying.

There are a few passages that we can't be sure about, but not many and those that are disputable are indicated as such in any reputable bible.
 
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imolaavant

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Thanks for all the responses. some really good points were made. To clarify where I'm coming from in asking this, allow me to present my understanding:

Jesus died around 30ad. He and his followers spoke Aramaic. The gospels were written in Greek at least 35 years later by unknown authors and there are some discrepancies between the 4 books, such as the exact day Jesus was crucified on.

I would think that since Jesus was going around doing miracles, that someone would have wrote about it at the time, not decades later. I do agree that being able to compare thousands of ancient copies gives us a good idea of what the originals said - however this does not mean the the originals were 100% accurate historical accounts.

I disagree that the memories of people 2000 years ago were more accurate than ours. If someone knows of a study or something more tangible than conjecture, please post a link or reference.

So here is one of my struggles. I do appreciate all your points of view. Thanks.
 
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InnocentOdion

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I myself believe in Aramaic primacy - that is, the gospels were written in Aramaic first. Have you ever heard of this? As far as I'm aware, the Gospels do not disagree on the day Jesus died. However, there are certain things such as "at dawn" or "before dawn", however we must remember that certain things are subjective: my view of when dawn has started is different to yours.

People may not have written them down, because at the time they were busy trying to bring others to know this man, it is possible that proof was not needed for those, because they were still very active first hand eyewitnesses. I would not feel a need to write down something that I witnessed when people were still alive. However, as I neared the end of my life, fearful of the truth being lost or distorted, or possibly even being distorted by some, not out of malice, but out of carelessness or lack of facts, deciding it would be a good idea writing it down - unbeknownst to myself that someone else was doing the exact same thing, or would do the exact same thing, a few years later.

It is true, some nations are extremely good on keeping stories and myths, and some people are extremely good on remembering facts and information. Many Muslims become can remember the whole of the Koran, or so I've heard, so why not the Gospels?

Aramaic primacy websites:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_primacy
http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/
http://www.aramaicnt.org/NEW/index.php?t=2
http://orvillejenkins.com/languages/aramaicprimacy.html
http://www.v-a.com/bible
http://www.peshitta.org/
 
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Calminian

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How does one hold the scripture to be accurate after being translated and handed down orally before every being written down? After all, the disciples & apostles were only human.

It seems like there is an awful lot of room for mistranslations and misunderstandings to take place before the bible reached its current form. How does a believer reconcile this?

This is actually one of the reasons I have so much faith in the Bible. The manuscript evidence is so replete it removes all doubt of transmission errors. And apart form this, did you know that if all manuscripts were destroyed today, we could actually reconstruct the entire Bible just from the writings of the early church fathers alone? And that Bible would be essentially identical to what we have today.

Here's one of my favorite articles on manuscript evidence. Manuscript Support for the Bible's Reliability
 
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Confess

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How does one hold the scripture to be accurate after being translated and handed down orally before every being written down? After all, the disciples & apostles were only human.

It seems like there is an awful lot of room for mistranslations and misunderstandings to take place before the bible reached its current form. How does a believer reconcile this?
In the earliest translations the monks would spend all their time translating. They would be so precise that whole scripts would be burned if there was one mistake made.

Today's translations remain harmonious with the earliest translations found. Due to the many variations of definitions that can be given for many words, you will find other translations using different words. Some are less accurate then others, but they all follow the same storyline and say the same thing.

There are a few versions out there that people just need to stay away from all together. Those that are gender neutral, the Living Bible and others. They took translation to an extent that the context was lost.

I like the KJV, NKJV, NIV. Other people like other versions, but that is a personal issue.
 
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OldChurchGuy

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Thanks for all the responses. some really good points were made. To clarify where I'm coming from in asking this, allow me to present my understanding:

Jesus died around 30ad. He and his followers spoke Aramaic. The gospels were written in Greek at least 35 years later by unknown authors and there are some discrepancies between the 4 books, such as the exact day Jesus was crucified on.

I would think that since Jesus was going around doing miracles, that someone would have wrote about it at the time, not decades later. I do agree that being able to compare thousands of ancient copies gives us a good idea of what the originals said - however this does not mean the the originals were 100% accurate historical accounts.

I disagree that the memories of people 2000 years ago were more accurate than ours. If someone knows of a study or something more tangible than conjecture, please post a link or reference.

So here is one of my struggles. I do appreciate all your points of view. Thanks.


There is a most interesting book entitled "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman (I think that's how his last name is spelled). It is written for lay people about the latest in study and scholarship regarding the many New Testament manuscripts and fragments that are currently known.

Some may find it very disturbing while others may find it enlightening. Regardless, I think it is worth the time to read it.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
 
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ebia

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Thanks for all the responses. some really good points were made. To clarify where I'm coming from in asking this, allow me to present my understanding:

Jesus died around 30ad. He and his followers spoke Aramaic. The gospels were written in Greek at least 35 years later by unknown authors and there are some discrepancies between the 4 books, such as the exact day Jesus was crucified on.
The 4 authors are trying to emphasis different points in the story - John, for instance, wants to emphasis the parallels between the crucifixion itself and the moment of slaughter of the sacrifical passover lambs in the temple, so he times the whole story off that point. The synoptic authors have different priorities in their stories. We shouldn't assume that the authors have a post-enlightenment obsession with getting telling the facts accurately and the expense of the point of the story.

I would think that since Jesus was going around doing miracles, that someone would have wrote about it at the time, not decades later.
Bits probably were, but in a society that is less literate than ours writting things down isn't the first point of call. It is highly likely, however, that the central story of passion week was written down earlier, and then those accounts incorporated into the accounts of Luke etc.


I do agree that being able to compare thousands of ancient copies gives us a good idea of what the originals said - however this does not mean the the originals were 100% accurate historical accounts.

I disagree that the memories of people 2000 years ago were more accurate than ours. If someone knows of a study or something more tangible than conjecture, please post a link or reference.
It's not mostly about individual memories, but the collective memory of a story-telling culture. When the story is well known and oft repeated in a story-telling culture the collective memory preserves it's accuracy - if the story-teller deviates from the accepted story the community correct him pretty sharply (and sack him if he does it repeatedly).

Hence my example I mentioned before: at some time over 10,000 years ago the course of the Murray River stopped at a choke in its course. Eventually it broke through and that event is preserved in one of the stories of the local aborigines - preserving a (mythologised) account of an event that happened over 10,000 years ago and for which there is no current evidence available to a pre-scientific people. Storytelling can and does preserve stories for hundreds - even thousands - of years. 40 or 50 years is nothing.
We've lost the power of collective storytelling, but its power of preservation is well understood, which is why non-literate cultures turn all the important information they want to preserve into stories.
 
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dvd_holc

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Thanks for all the responses. some really good points were made. To clarify where I'm coming from in asking this, allow me to present my understanding:

Jesus died around 30ad. He and his followers spoke Aramaic. The gospels were written in Greek at least 35 years later by unknown authors and there are some discrepancies between the 4 books, such as the exact day Jesus was crucified on.

I would think that since Jesus was going around doing miracles, that someone would have wrote about it at the time, not decades later. I do agree that being able to compare thousands of ancient copies gives us a good idea of what the originals said - however this does not mean the the originals were 100% accurate historical accounts.

I disagree that the memories of people 2000 years ago were more accurate than ours. If someone knows of a study or something more tangible than conjecture, please post a link or reference.

So here is one of my struggles. I do appreciate all your points of view. Thanks.
First, it was not unusual that Jesus performed miracles. In fact, they excepted Jesus to perform miracles. There are many known people who lived before and after Jesus who performed miracles. In Jesus day, Jesus is the only known guy to raise people from the dead.

Second, you have to understand that the Jewish community was not like our culture. They were much more dependant on oral transmission. Likewise, the rabbis taught their students to memorize the whole bible, all of the previous honorable rabbi interpretations and stories, etc. Jesus and the other rabbis similar to Him (Hillel, Shammai, Gamaliel, etc.) were the equalient of being a walking encycleopedia. Likewise, they taught their disciple to be just like them. So then, they would have not sat down and listed a historical writing of people as it was happen. We are much in debted to people who did, Josephus for example. But Josephus did not write his account until he was older in age and truly he was attempting to justify himself and give a account to the Romans why to be friendly to the Jews.
 
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ebia

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For context I can easily tell you what my grandfather was doing on 29 December 1940 - and I know my memory is pretty accurate as many of the details are easily corroborated from other sources as it was the night of one of the biggest raids during the London blitz. I'll be able to tell my daughter the same story, and I think she'll get a pretty accurate version. If she tells her children I'd imagine it would start to become more corrupted as it's passed on through generations, but a period of 100 years from the event until the writing down, even with the life expectancy at the time, is not a great period - the major details should remain accurate.
Now pretend that your story was important enough to be retold at big family gatherings several times a year. You are good at bringing the story to life, so you always do the storytelling, but everyone present has heard the story many times before. If you or your successors change the story, someone will butt in straight away to correct you. The collective memory will keep the story unchanged for far, far, longer than any individual could.
 
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Merlin

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How does one hold the scripture to be accurate after being translated and handed down orally before every being written down? After all, the disciples & apostles were only human.

It seems like there is an awful lot of room for mistranslations and misunderstandings to take place before the bible reached its current form. How does a believer reconcile this?
Your opening premise is in error.
The Bible was not

"translated and handed down orally before every being written down?"
 
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rocklife

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How does one hold the scripture to be accurate after being translated and handed down orally before every being written down? After all, the disciples & apostles were only human.

It seems like there is an awful lot of room for mistranslations and misunderstandings to take place before the bible reached its current form. How does a believer reconcile this?

some preachers and bible scholars also argue this, we will probably know everything and have it all sorted out after Jesus comes back, to be honest. There is a bible verse that says for now, it is like looking into a mirror, we don't know all the answers, we have to wait on God for many answers. And to really understand scriptures, we need the Holy Spirit Jesus talks about. Without Holy Spirit, and humbleness, we are lost totally and His words will make even less sense. Thankfully you don't just need Bible words to save you, God is alive, and a Spirit. His words are helpful, but they are not the only thing God gives us to lead us to Truth, the Bible is very very helpful, but we also need His Spirit. There have been many persecuted christians who did not have a Bible, who had never even read the whole thing, but they had wholehearted love of God. and remember to contrast, the Pharisees and even the devil has the bible pretty much memorized, the Pharisees led Jesus to His death, and satan twists it for evil. It is God and His Spirit that will save us and help us most of all, thankfully.
 
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