Missing pages from one's bible

[Xeno.of.athens]

Then the vast majority of Catholics are very naughty, indeed.

Or (which is more likely) you think that most are.

 

[Strong in Him]

It's naughty not to agree, you know.

It's not naughty to disagree with someone, even a leader - it shows that person has a mind of their own, can think and reason.
Jesus disagreed with the religious leaders.
Even Popes may have disagreed with their predecessors. They may have also disagreed with leaders of other denominations.

 

[Philip_B]

It's naughty not to agree, you know.

I think I prefer the understanding that says that the informed conscience must be our guide. Whilst some would argue that requires correlation with the official position, there have been many examples where the official position has been found wanting, and in evidence, I would cite the debate between the Official Position of the time that supported Terra-centricity, and the opposing (though I would not suggest naughty position) that supported Helio-centricity.

On the matter of Scripture, I hold the view that the enormous importance that the reformed tradition places upon scripture, means they are destined to want to exclude the Deuterocanonicals, even though it is clear that the New Testament authors clearly relied on the LXX, at least in part, and some would argue in the main, and there are passages in the New Testament that seem to have a reliance of those documents.

The Anglican Position, as I understand it, and I might add I despair of finding what the position is on many of these issues - so perhaps I should call it An Anglican Position, is that the 27 books of the NT and the OT from the Masoretic Canon are the primary Canon, and the books (the so-called missing pages) are Deuterocanonical, suggesting that they have their place in scripture, however that can not be used as the foundation source of anything that might be required unto salvation.

Anglicans Online | The Thirty-Nine Articles

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It's not naughty to disagree with someone, even a leader - it shows that person has a mind of their own, can think and reason.

No matter what you decide; to follow this man or that man, or to follow your own self, you will have a mind of your own that you used to decide who you will follow. If you decide to disagree with someone then you used your own mind to do that just like you'd use your own mind to agree with someone.

 

[Strong in Him]

No matter what you decide; to follow this man or that man, or to follow your own self, you will have a mind of your own that you used to decide who you will follow. If you decide to disagree with someone then you used your own mind to do that just like you'd use your own mind to agree with someone.

Yes, absolutely.
So why tell me, and others, that we should be Catholics and agree with the Pope?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Yes, absolutely.
So why tell me, and others, that we should be Catholics and agree with the Pope?

Because I think being a Catholic is great and the holy Eucharist is too good for words; heaven on earth some say, and who am I to contradict them. So that's why I encourage you and everyone else to be Catholic. It's the bees knees

 

[Strong in Him]

Because I think being a Catholic is great and the holy Eucharist is too good for words; heaven on earth some say, and who am I to contradict them. So that's why I encourage you and everyone else to be Catholic. It's the bees knees

I'm glad you love it, but no thanks.
I think that being a Christian is great - the best.
Whether at communion or not, I know Jesus's presence in my life, every day.
If I didn't go to church at all, he'd still be with me. I'm happy with the church I'm in.

 

[The Liturgist]

I have a New Cambridge Paragraph Bible, which is a King James Version with all of the canonical books included (73 of them), but with seven of them and parts of two more in a kind of intertestamental appendix, as is the custom with the KJV. And I have numerous Catholic bibles with 73 canonical books. And I have some Protestant versions with only 66 books in them which means about 288 to 300 pages are missing from the 66 book versions. What do you good people do when you think about the missing pages? Does it bother you or are you happy as happy can be to have around 300 pages missing from your bible?

I myself lament that several otherwise good translations lack books like Sirach, Wisdom, Tobit, the books of the Maccabees, even Baruch - which John Calvin reckoned as protocanon. Sirach and Wisdom were more important to the early church than several books in the Masoretic Canon of 66 books, which came from Rabinnical Judaism, for example, some of the minor prophets, as is evinced by their prominent position in the lectionary.

What really grates at me however is that my “KJV Study Bible” omits these important books, and instead features an entire essay criticizing, nay, abusing them, despite the fact that these books are a part of the King James Version, for the Church of England and most other Anglican churches use them.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I myself lament that several otherwise good translations lack books like Sirach, Wisdom, Tobit, the books of the Maccabees, even Baruch - which John Calvin reckoned as protocanon. Sirach and Wisdom were more important to the early church than several books in the Masoretic Canon of 66 books, which came from Rabinnical Judaism, for example, some of the minor prophets, as is evinced by their prominent position in the lectionary.

What really grates at me however is that my “KJV Study Bible” omits these important books, and instead features an entire essay criticizing, nay, abusing them, despite the fact that these books are a part of the King James Version, for the Church of England and most other Anglican churches use them.

Many conservative Protestants like the NASB but there is no NASB with the Deuterocanon available.
But Recently a Catholic Edition of the ESV has been printed and I have a copy. It is quite good, almost as good as the RSV Catholic Edition. There is a NRSV Catholic Edition, and a NLT Catholic Edition and also a GNT Catholic Edition so it is evident that numerous essentially Protestant bibles are available in Catholic Editions, which is a good thing. But there are some Protestant bibles that have restricted their translation work to the 66 books that Protestants regard as canonical.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Or (which is more likely) you think that most are.

No, it is not my opinion. Polling has shown that the vast majority of American Catholics practice various forms of birth control with the net result being that the birth rate among Catholics is no different than that of society overall and vastly lower than the advent of birth control means. According to the Catholic Church the use of birth control is a serious sin.

Likewise, it is a mortal sin in the Catholic Church to forego attendance at weekly mass. In the Catholic countries of Europe attendance at weekly mass is in the very low single and double digits of the population. Either these folks are seriously incapacitated to the point of being chronically disabled or they are going about their normal lives with no concern for their eternal souls.

 

[The Liturgist]

Many conservative Protestants like the NASB but there is no NASB with the Deuterocanon available.
But Recently a Catholic Edition of the ESV has been printed and I have a copy. It is quite good, almost as good as the RSV Catholic Edition. There is a NRSV Catholic Edition, and a NLT Catholic Edition and also a GNT Catholic Edition so it is evident that numerous essentially Protestant bibles are available in Catholic Editions, which is a good thing. But there are some Protestant bibles that have restricted their translation work to the 66 books that Protestants regard as canonical.

Indeed, such as the NIV. This was mainly a problem with the old version 2; the new third edition I have no use for, except when David Suchet reads it.

 

[Strong in Him]

No, it is not my opinion. Polling has shown that the vast majority of American Catholics practice various forms of birth control with the net result being that the birth rate among Catholics is no different than that of society overall and vastly lower than the advent of birth control means. According to the Catholic Church the use of birth control is a serious sin.

I remember my mum telling me that her cousin, a Catholic, had been told that it was medically dangerous for her to have any more children. So she used contraception and confessed every time she went to church - which I don't think was that often.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Polling has shown that the vast majority of American Catholics

But these USA Catholics are a minority of Catholics in the world.

 

[The Liturgist]

No, it is not my opinion. Polling has shown that the vast majority of American Catholics practice various forms of birth control with the net result being that the birth rate among Catholics is no different than that of society overall and vastly lower than the advent of birth control means. According to the Catholic Church the use of birth control is a serious sin.

Likewise, it is a mortal sin in the Catholic Church to forego attendance at weekly mass. In the Catholic countries of Europe attendance at weekly mass is in the very low single and double digits of the population. Either these folks are seriously incapacitated to the point of being chronically disabled or they are going about their normal lives with no concern for their eternal souls.

The Traditional Latin Mass communities, which are, or were thriving, until Pope Francis decided to undo Summorum Pontificum and impose Traditiones Custodes (which means Custodians of Tradition, an apt name since the new encyclical has the effect of holding Tradition in Custody) tend to follow the traditional rules. Pope Francis also fired Raymond Cardinal Burke, who I wish had been elected to replace Pope Benedict XVI, from his post as the leader of the Sovereign Military Order of the Knights of Malta, and also effectively rendered said order no longet Sovereign, after His Eminence put a stop to a German charity affiliated with the Knights of Malta distributing condoms in Africa.

So in so far as the Roman Catholic Church is not following its rules, it is due to the edicts of bishops opposed to those rules, and not the pious laity.

 

[The Liturgist]

They dropped the books from within the bindings of the King James Bible at some time in the 1800s.

A minority of KJVs still have a complete 46 book Old Testament.

 

[The Liturgist]

As a result, early Catholic churches based on the LXX to re-define the OT Canon, which is improper. God on the other hand corrected this by authenticated the Protestants.

Ummm what? On what basis do you propose that Christians have no right to determine what Old Testament books to receive? And how are Protestants “authenticated”? I am a Protestant, and I accept all the Deuterocanonicals, and also the Ethiopian books, and recognize Catholics and Orthodox as fully authentic churches, as authentic as any traditional liturgical Protestant church.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

A minority of KJVs still have a complete 46 book Old Testament.

The New Cambridge Paragraph Bible is one such, the Penguin Bible is another, and Oxford prints a paperback Classic bible that is a KJV with all the books in it. Some of the expensive leather-bound bibles also have all the books present. But I would be well pleased to see all KJVs restore the books that were dropped in the 19th century. And to retain the "To The Reader" at the start of the KJV.

 

[Hawkins]

Ummm what? On what basis do you propose that Christians have no right to determine what Old Testament books to receive? And how are Protestants “authenticated”? I am a Protestant, and I accept all the Deuterocanonicals, and also the Ethiopian books, and recognize Catholics and Orthodox as fully authentic churches, as authentic as any traditional liturgical Protestant church.

Already explained. By God's will, now only Protestants have both a correct OT Canon and NT Canon. That's the way how Protestants are authenticated. Are you saying that only Catholics are legitimate? Or are you saying that the Jewish Canon is not legitimate?

Rather the controversy is always on whether the Apocrypha is legitimate!!!

The Jews have the canonization all the times from King Hezekiah till Ezra till the Pharisees. Like I said, it is their testimony, it is their canonization. The only conflict lies in the apocryphal books.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Or are you saying that the Jewish Canon is not legitimate?

That is correct; the Jewish Tanakh has fewer books than it ought to have.

 

[Valletta]

But these USA Catholics are a minority of Catholics in the world.

And most of the so-called Catholics in the U.S. are not practicing Catholics, they are cultural Catholics.