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Missing link was a lie

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dad

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The dates are listed on the Palermo stone and the Turin list.
Dates are there? Who wrote them, the spook kings? Guess they didn't use BC. Worthless. They don't even know if a year was a year of reign (assuming the guy or spook existed to begin with) or of a life...etc. No good for dating.




This argument is about the Egyptian dynastic rule from 3,000 B.C. to 31 B.C. If you do not want to go by the dates of the Turin list and Palermo stone, that is your problem.

I don't, thanks, that would be insane. They are not reliable. Why do you think any date that so called science thinks is worth it's salt, is a decay date?

The "spirits" and "gods" are not a problem because after 1500 years of Egyptian rule, the first kings would be revered enough to become "spirits" and "gods". Even in later dynasties pharaohs were considered living gods so it moots your point.
Nope, conjecture.



Maybe in the future you should actually read what I say.
We have done the same with our first presidents. Washington and the apple tree... Granted, we do not view them as "spirits" or "gods" but we often give them credit for more deeds than they have done.

OK, ...so? That doesn't wave away spirits in the bible or Egypt, or anywhere else.



Or it never happened.
So you don't know. OK.



By working from Cleopatra and going backwards for how long each king/queen ruled. There are records, as you so often claim.
Nope. No records that are reliable, with dates. Forget working back, just look at the guy supposedly last on the list, and the date, and basis. End of story. It is shot out of the water.



According the the list, Menes inherited the throne from Horus and ruled for 62 years until he was killed by a hippo. 62 years is not hundreds of years.

"Horus is one of the oldest and most significant of the deities in the Ancient Egyptian religion who was worshipped ..."

Horus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So your 'reliable record has a deity handing down the throne to some guy named Menes. You really wanna run with that?????



Then stop using it.
It lists spirits, so it is a valuable record for that. Not for dates.



And according to many animistic cultures that exist currently spirits still live among men.
Really? Example?



So you are saying the core is "spiritual also" material in the "present state"? I stated:

Great heat is being produced right now and it is not killing us. The core of the earth is several thousand degrees and it is not killing us. That means it could still have been the "present state" considering the heat earth is making right now and we are all just fine.




It is happening at this very moment. Thrust faults, subduction zones, etc.
Nope! WQrong. That is a fable. No science exists to back that up, it is assumed. Not known. No one ever got down more than several miles. Of course there is molten rock and heat under parts of the earth. But how deep, is the issue?? If we rapidly moved continents apart, we would expect heat. Simple. The hot core is a lie, far as I am concerned. I don't believe it. Why should I??? Look at the lying basis for the claim. Imaginary old ages, and some lying dream formation of the earth. Get over it, it was created by God. Why would He make it hot? Any scripture for that?



Pillow lavas are bulbous, spherical, or tubular lobes of lava. They form during eruptions with relatively low effusion rates. Slow extrusion gives enough time for a thick crust to form on all sides of a pillow lobe, and prevents individual pillows from coalescing into a sheet. Internally the pillows are fed via a distributary system of interconnected channels. Pillows are not typically hollow and tend to solidify all the way through. Pillows often have lineations or scrape marks on their sides that form during extrusion.
"Often" ? So how bout these Aussie ones? Got any scratches? If we pushed a continent over, would we not expect some molten rock?


They are created when magma reaches the surface but, as there is a large difference in temperature between the lava and the water, the surface of the emergent tongue cools very quickly, forming a skin. The tongue continues to lengthen and inflate with more lava, forming a lobe, until the pressure of the magma becomes sufficient to rupture the skin and start the formation of a new eruption point nearer the vent. This process produces a series of interconnecting lobate shapes that are pillow-like in cross-section. The skin cools a lot faster than the inside of the pillow, so it is very fine grained, with a glassy texture. The magma inside the pillow cools more slowly, so is slightly coarser grained than the skin, but still classified as fine grained.
One of the features of former state matter is that it cooled quickly, and possibly had a different melt point. So what you describe woulld not necessarily be exclusive to water cooling?




The date is not the issue. I want you to give an explanation as to how pillow lava would form in places other than underwater. You have claimed that you can give explanations of how the "past state" worked. Let me have it. A scientific explanation of "past state" pillow lava formation.
Well, first we must have a need for it to do so. That means having evidence it was pre split. You haven't established that the Aussie formation was immune from being pushed up in the continental separation. Also, that there either was or was not water covering the formation in the desert. If there was, and it was after the split, why not let sleeping pillow lava dogs lay??
 
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BananaSlug

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Dates are there? Who wrote them, the spook kings? Guess they didn't use BC. Worthless. They don't even know if a year was a year of reign (assuming the guy or spook existed to begin with) or of a life...etc. No good for dating.

It does not matter if it is the years of reign or the years of their life. It is still useful in making a chronology. Didn't James Ussher do the same with the chronologies in the Bible to get the 4004 B.C. creation date? What is the difference between the two?


I don't, thanks, that would be insane. They are not reliable. Why do you think any date that so called science thinks is worth it's salt, is a decay date?

So if the Palermo stone and Turin list are not reliable for dates, how can they be reliable for any other information? Don't creationists typically argument that if one part of the Bible is false, the whole thing is suspect?

Nope, conjecture.

Really? Which part is conjecture, the deitification of early kings or the fact that later pharaohs were considered to be living gods?



OK, ...so? That doesn't wave away spirits in the bible or Egypt, or anywhere else.

But it does provide evidence of our capability to glorify prominent historical figures.

So you don't know. OK.

Neither do you. Okay.

Nope. No records that are reliable, with dates. Forget working back, just look at the guy supposedly last on the list, and the date, and basis. End of story. It is shot out of the water.

So now you agree that the geneaology of Christ is wrong? Cleopatra's reign ended in 31 B.C. with Roman occupation. All you have to do is start with Cleopatra and work your way backward with the years of reign for each king. Cleopatra to Ahmose is 1500 years (31 B.C.-1550 B.C.). In any case, why are the dates not reliable?

"Horus is one of the oldest and most significant of the deities in the Ancient Egyptian religion who was worshipped ..."

Horus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So your 'reliable record has a deity handing down the throne to some guy named Menes. You really wanna run with that?????

I am claiming Horus is a deified human or made up.

It lists spirits, so it is a valuable record for that. Not for dates.

So by your argument the Bible is not a valuable record for dates either. In any case, why is it not a valuable record for dates? Because you disagree with it?

Really? Example?

Shuar
Machiguenga
Hmong
Yagua

Here's four. Do you want more?

Nope! WQrong. That is a fable. No science exists to back that up, it is assumed. Not known. No one ever got down more than several miles. Of course there is molten rock and heat under parts of the earth. But how deep, is the issue??

So what causes rock to be molten? According to "present state" science, molten rock is caused by the intense pressure caused in the mantle and core. Another line of evidence for our molten core is the fact that we have a magnetosphere.

If we rapidly moved continents apart, we would expect heat. Simple. The hot core is a lie, far as I am concerned. I don't believe it. Why should I???

Plate tectonics (the continents are still moving), volcanoes, and magnetosphere.

Look at the lying basis for the claim. Imaginary old ages, and some lying dream formation of the earth. Get over it, it was created by God. Why would He make it hot? Any scripture for that?

Plate tectonics, volcanoes, and magnetosphere.


One of the features of former state matter is that it cooled quickly, and possibly had a different melt point. So what you describe woulld not necessarily be exclusive to water cooling?

One of the features of the "present state" pillow lava is that it cools quickly. How would it not be exclusive to water cooling? Could you provide a scientific explanation rather than making stuff up?

Well, first we must have a need for it to do so. That means having evidence it was pre split. You haven't established that the Aussie formation was immune from being pushed up in the continental separation. Also, that there either was or was not water covering the formation in the desert. If there was, and it was after the split, why not let sleeping pillow lava dogs lay??

All I want is an explanation as to how "past state" pillow lava would form. It's not too hard for you is it?
 
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Split Rock

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The trick is catching his contradictions.

That's hardly a "trick." They are obvious. The trick is continuing to try and make sense of dad's fantasitic ramblings while having the patience to argue with someone with the mentality of a brick.
 
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BananaSlug

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That's hardly a "trick." They are obvious. The trick is continuing to try and make sense of dad's fantasitic ramblings while having the patience to argue with someone with the mentality of a brick.

Bricks can be broken.
 
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driewerf

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Dad,
already two times I asked you some questions I see as rather crucial. I'd liked to have some answers.
And you claim changing conditions, for which there is no reason to believe in (except to fit your bias), for which there is no evidence, not even the slightest hint. On the contrary, phsycical evidence points toward constancy in all the fundamental laws of nature.
The burden of prove lies on you.
So start to tell us what conditions were different.
How we could see this in the remains of the past?
How did these laws of nature change?

As long as you don't do anything of these, you are only producing hot air.
No dad. The one who introduces new concepts has to prove them right. You are introducing a different past. Very well, so the burden of proof lies on you.
Start to answer the following questions
- which physical laws or constants changed?
- what caused their change? (And you will have to provide a detailed mechanism for that change. Just saying "The Flood", or "the Fall" will not do it.
-can we see any remnant of this? (in the fossil record, in the geological column, in distant stars or galaxies? in anything else?)
These three questions are crucial.
 
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driewerf

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I'd liked also to point your attention to these two little things you didn't answer until now.
Fossils? We have a record of all sorts of hyper evolved from the kinds creatures

Do we? Then show me that record!


Archeological evidence, geological strata, astronomical data? It all supports a different state past! Don't throw out such vague quasi claims.

Does it?
Really? Show me that data!
 
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dad

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Dad,
already two times I asked you some questions I see as rather crucial. I'd liked to have some answers.

"How we could see this in the remains of the past?
How did these laws of nature change?
"

The records of man and God's word ARE the remains of the past. We see it in them..:) !!

The laws of OUR nature did NOT change! Get over it! Our nature is the change from the true nature, and temporary at that. Ho hum. This is so easy.
 
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dad

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I'd liked also to point your attention to these two little things you didn't answer until now.


"
Originally Posted by dad
Fossils? We have a record of all sorts of hyper evolved from the kinds creatures
Originally Posted by driewerf
Do we? Then show me that record!​


Easy. It is called the fossil record!!! You kidding????


Originally Posted by dad
Archeological evidence, geological strata, astronomical data? It all supports a different state past! Don't throw out such vague quasi claims.
Originally Posted by driewerf
Does it?
Really? Show me that data!​

Jerusalem is real, Ur was found to have existed, Herod was real, etc etc. Geology? The continents separated. Really! Strata? It was laid down as we see! Astronomical? The moon never came from an imaginary smash up derby of some mysterious planet x, where the dust up coalesced into the moon, as science dreams! The universe was not in a speck! The majority, some 90 plus percent of our universe that is unseen, is NOT dark matter! Etc etc etc.

 
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