Misogyny is disgusting

[OldWiseGuy]

Yeah, I'm not playing this existentialist subjective relativist game, you don't get to pull that non-argument, basically a thought terminating cliche.

I don't have to walk in your shoes to see some consistent patterns that you're thoroughly indoctrinated and are convinced you have evidence, but ignore anything to the contrary, because of cognitive bias due to the indoctrination or otherwise lack of critical thinking skills

You seem to know more about me than I do.

 

[essentialsaltes]

That said women are very good at what they do, but they are not very good at what I do.

Maybe with effort and some tutelage, they can become as abrasive and disconnected from reality as you.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Entitlement is not necessarily an innately positive thing when you apply it as a default. And freedom in a Christian position is hardly a good thing by default if you're just free to sin, one would think you'd know better than to use those terms loaded with secular baggage

Do you think I should have given up hunting because my wife was against killing animals for sport?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Maybe with effort and some tutelage, they can become as abrasive and disconnected from reality as you.

I wondered when the personal attacks would begin.

I do live in a different reality than most. Works great.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I wondered when the personal attacks would begin.

What? These are your most notable skills!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yeah, because stereotyping women as being superficial is totally showing that you respect them rather than expecting idealistic archetypes that are just compartmentalizing women to avoid the stuff you don't want to admit is threatening your dominance as a man (I'm not threatened by women as a man, not sure why you'd be except that you can't even acknowledge the privileged status you have as a man in a patriarchal system)

I'm free of all that drama, and free to be objective in my observations.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What? These are your most notable skills!

Presenting something that others disagree with isn't 'attacking' them. You however, have just launched a personal attack on me for no reason other than you don't agree with me. Attack the message, not the messenger. I am not a misogynist so there's no justification to attack me personally in this thread.

 

[muichimotsu]

Men and women have profound intellectual differences. In fact in many ways we are a different species. Men are from Mars, women from Venus.

The only way we are intellectually equal is that neither understands the other.

That said women are very good at what they do, but they are not very good at what I do.

Don't negate the fact that many jobs require the 'muscle mass' that only men have. This fact alone limits what women can do, and crowds them into fewer job descriptions. Additionally many employers have to make accommodations for various weaknesses that women bring to the workplace. A good example of this is the common back problems that nurses suffer from moving heavy patients from awkward positions. Male nurses don't suffer this nearly as much.

I mean, you can say that, you'd need to substantiate it for it not to just be asserting patriarchal norms you don't question. And no, we're not a different species except in the vernacular uses of the word, otherwise we couldn't interbreed and have fertile offspring. And that would just mean the human species couldn't exist

Barring the obvious physical limitations, what is stopping women from, say, being in the STEM fields more? It isn't just that they aren't interested, that can be the case, it's supposedly that society encourages them to do other fields even if they actually have the aptitude for STEM fields. And inversely, what is wrong with men doing traditionally feminine things, like, beyond simple sewing, actually being a tailor or such?

 

[muichimotsu]

I'm free of all that drama, and free to be objective in my observations.

No, you're totally objective and couldn't possibly have any lingering resentment because you got divorced, possibly because of issues on your end more than hers (can't say for certain)

 

[muichimotsu]

Do you think I should have given up hunting because my wife was against killing animals for sport?

Maybe you should've determined the priorities you both had before you got married instead of just going into it because it was socially expected of you or you had mere sentimentality and impulses guiding your decision versus being objective and reasonable?

 

[Kylie]

Thanks for the admission.

You say that as though it's a bad thing I fear for my life when a man directs anger towards me.

Men general accept that they must achieve longevity in order to get a pay raise, even while doing the same work as others who have seniority and earn more.

Woah, hold on there.

The gender pay gap is not about men having seniority over women. It's about two people, both with equal claim for the same pay, but one gets paid less because they were born with a vagina.

That's what it's come to, but how do we deal with it. My wife dealt with me by divorcing me. Perhaps mass divorces and placing the women in protective custody?

If that's what works.

But there are a lot of men who would see that as an attack on them, and react with violence towards their wives.

We must change the culture. We must create a culture where boys are taught from childhood that it is okay to express emotion and to talk about their feelings.

 

[Kylie]

Actually that's part of it.

And do you find it surprising that half the population is being told they are lesser than the other half simply because of their biological sex?

I don't think most men think that way. Freer and more entitled maybe but not superior.

And what is it about being born with a penis that makes a person more entitled?

 

[muichimotsu]

You seem to know more about me than I do.

If the "substance" of your argument borders on passive aggression, I don't have to make generalizations, you're proving my point for me by having little more than rhetorical quips rather than actual contentions backed by evidence and proper argumentation

Just saying "you need to walk in my shoes" is not anything contributing to the discussion, it's you seemingly not caring about the truth of your worldview, but just asserting it as true

 

[Kylie]

That said women are very good at what they do, but they are not very good at what I do.

I've never yet seen a job that a woman can't do at least competently.

 

[muichimotsu]

Presenting something that others disagree with isn't 'attacking' them. You however, have just launched a personal attack on me for no reason other than you don't agree with me. Attack the message, not the messenger. I am not a misogynist so there's no justification to attack me personally in this thread.

You know that just asserting you're not a misogynist doesn't make it so, right? You very well could just be showing plenty of misogynist biases and not be aware of it because you've compartmentalized what you think misogyny is and what evidence suggests otherwise

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I mean, you can say that, you'd need to substantiate it for it not to just be asserting patriarchal norms you don't question. And no, we're not a different species except in the vernacular uses of the word, otherwise we couldn't interbreed and have fertile offspring. And that would just mean the human species couldn't exist

Barring the obvious physical limitations, what is stopping women from, say, being in the STEM fields more? It isn't just that they aren't interested, that can be the case, it's supposedly that society encourages them to do other fields even if they actually have the aptitude for STEM fields. And inversely, what is wrong with men doing traditionally feminine things, like, beyond simple sewing, actually being a tailor or such?

Women have trouble with calculus so many drop out of STEM programs.

My grandmother was a dressmaker so I grew up around an old treadle Singer. Many men, mostly Jewish, are tailors, fashion designers, etc.

 

[muichimotsu]

Women have trouble with calculus so many drop out of STEM programs.

My grandmother was a dressmaker so I grew up around an old treadle Singer. Many men, mostly Jewish, are tailors, fashion designers, etc.

Oh, this old chestnut? Some women having trouble doesn't mean they all do or that they can't approach it in a way that works, similar to learning methods amongst people in general being part of the issue rather than a lacking capacity in that subject

*sigh* I'm not talking ethnic stereotypes, I'm talking the gender norms that you seem to buy into and can accept within particular preconceptions rather than considering it in a broader manner. Am I less of a man because I dressed as a woman for enjoying something at a fan convention? Is a man less masculine because he is emotionally open and enjoys things that are presumed to be feminine in priority (soap operas, etc?)

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I've never yet seen a job that a woman can't do at least competently.

I wouldn't like to see a woman do any of the jobs I've had. It would be defeminizing.

 

[Kylie]

Women have trouble with calculus so many drop out of STEM programs.

And is that because the female brain is inherently less suitable for mathematics, or is it because girls are, from a young age, discouraged from going into hard sciences and mathematics?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Oh, this old chestnut? Some women having trouble doesn't mean they all do or that they can't approach it in a way that works, similar to learning methods amongst people in general being part of the issue rather than a lacking capacity in that subject.

You mentioned STEM, and I offered the fact that women have trouble with calculus, for whatever reason, and many drop out because of it.