Misconceptions about Protestants

[razeontherock]

Non Catholics don't think like Catholics. Saying one is thier own Pope must be a catholic phrase for a person asking for God's salvation, praying, and living through Jesus Christ, Not the Pope.

THAT'S it Will you be my RC to Pr interpreter from now on?

 

[VolRaider]

Well, would you let your children go to some Mormon church event or a Muslim school? Of course not. Why would you want your children to be taught things contrary to what you are trying to teach them? There are Catholic Vacation Bible Schools if you want your kids to participate in that sort of thing.



Nice one! Equating us with Mormons and, even worse, Muslims! Classic! Also, that "sort of thing" comment rocks, too!
Man, I love reading this board! Burn em all, baby!

 

[razeontherock]

Is this a misconception about Protestant or a true observation -- that Protestants (in particular Evangelicals/Fundamentalists) are irrational fideists?

Not a fake church sign, but a real one -- it is a quote from Martin Luther's "Table Talk". Here is the context:

1) It REALLY irks me when I hear anyone say anything along the lines of Faith and logic being mutually exclusive.

2) Usually anyone saying anything like this is an atheist

3) Table Talk was written by Luther's students, is an unofficial release he never approved of IIRC, and Germans often get a little sloshed at dinner, at least when they're celebrating with enough friends for there to be somebody left over to act like recording secretary. Table Talk is a light, fun, irreverent read, but NOT a source of doctrine!

4) Can I summarize all of the above by translating it into RC-speak? The very fallible "pope" was speaking fallibly, not ex-cathedra

 

[sunlover1]

I could search the scriptures more diligently, but, being ignorant and unstable, that couldn't give me any more assurance than before. I could rely on teachers wiser and more learned than I, but to find them I'd have to make judgments of their teaching based once more on my ignorant and unstable understanding of Scripture. Again, this couldn't help.

You said you COULD have searched the Scriptures more diligently but that you were
ignorant and unstable...
I said this in jest! YOU were the one who had said you didn't study the Bible. And i put
the "seriously" at the beginning of the passage. Which should have indicated that the
sentence with the "" was me playing.

You've been reading the wrong book.. The one you shoulda been studying
woulda fixed this dilemma for you.

Seriously, Let God's curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from
heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you.

Nobody is infallible.
His Word abides forever.

Dude, ya need to get out more!

Now .. if you reread this passage without assuming evil of me, you might
understand that I was trying to show you that "the church" said don't be trusting
anyone unless it's JUST what had been preached (which is written)

Many clues in this post that it was all in fun.

 

[Heavens]

[Originally Posted by Heavens

Oops! Sorry, no carnal 'rational' please. Just answer the question from scripture if you would? Thanks

​

Originally Posted by PilgrimToChrist
Is this a misconception about Protestant or a true observation -- that Protestants (in particular Evangelicals/Fundamentalists) are irrational fideists?
[/quote]

I don't know, not being a protestant.

My response above was when someone just gave an opinion as though it were fact.
I was just asking someone what the name of the person was in this scripture and nobody has told me yet. Lot of other words, but no name yet lol.

(Isa 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

His Name is...

 

[razeontherock]

Now here's something I not only agree with, but really resonates with me:

Because Jesus came to reveal God to us in a greater fullness. Therefore we have an obligation to the pure and unadulterated reception and transmission of that revelation.

Now your very next words

If somebody, therefore, holds something which is contrary to what Christ has revealed, it is not the orthodox who are being "unnecessarily divisive" but rather the heterodox who have separated themselves from us.

Let's be real here: this is not anything even remotely similar to anything that has ever happened in our lifetime! It may be that you and I were approx the same age (20 in my case) when we first embraced Christianity, coupled to a building with other people in it. I have never encountered anything acceptable within RC, but G-d did take hold of my life, shake everything violently, and plant me right in the middle of some who knew Him. And He bore witness to them by His Spirit, because Christ was consistent in what He revealed.

You apparently experienced something that brought you to RC.

Nowhere was there anybody "separating themselves from us."

Is that "unnecessarily divisive" or necessarily divisive?

That passage from Galatians about another Gospel is completely inapplicable here, because btw us there is only 1 Gospel.

So yes, there must be divisions between the orthodox and the heterodox -- between those who hold to and preach what Christ has revealed and those who go their own way, leading people into darkness and confusion.

Again, this is just a false dichotomy, at least as you're trying to apply it here.

 

[razeontherock]

Misconceoption about Pr's # 53:

A rational person cannot believe that the authority to determine doctrine is given by Christ to the government of the Church that He established, and be utterly convinced that it has erred in doctrine. It's a logical contradiction.

Pr's are just irrational, that's all.

Is this what they teach you in your RC sermons? They obviously don't teach you how to address the falshood in what you posted.

 

[razeontherock]

Moving along quickly now! Misconception about Pr's #54:

This means that you're conceding that I'm correct.

When a Pr doesn't say what a RC wants them to, that means the Pr concedes RC is correct.

 

[sunlover1]

I'll vouch for her.

See, there we go then!
LOL

Can we assume you're not either?

"They" say we should never assume.

Sophistry and horse manure. God gave us His written Word so that we can know His thoughts. He spoke plainly for every man to understand His Word....

Amen Brother!
God (Holy Spirit) is indeed the author of The Bible as all Scripture is God "breathed",
and profitable for teaching, rebuking instruction etc.
We have His very Spirit with us.. Helping us to understand His very heart!
We do need "the church" because it's "His body" that He manifests through
to embrace, to feed, to preach, to bless, to support and encourage etc His
creation. God loving on His people, THROUGH His people.. such a lovely
thing indeed. But only by the power of the Spirit of God is this possible

Sorry, I guess "amen" was sufficient.

 

[razeontherock]

If we justly execute murderers, who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul; how much more justly are heretics executed, who destroy both body and soul in hell?

I can't believe I just read that. Perhaps now you understand why resorting to exclaiming "heresy!" at the drop of a hat might make me a little jumpy? You just wrote you'd LOVE to re-instate the barbaric practices of the dark ages. Don't try that in my neck of the woods!

 

[razeontherock]

It just means that Protestants are their own leaders, just like saying that a man acts like "he is his own king" and is not really a reflection of Catholicism's relationship to the pope.

So then you agree that the phrase Pr's act like their own Pope is just a stupid thing to say.

 

[razeontherock]

The thump of a righteous man availeth much.

That's precious!

 

[chilehed]

Sophistry and horse manure. God gave us His written Word so that we can know His thoughts. He spoke plainly for every man to understand His Word. It is only clever religionists, with size 12 brains, who can't see this.

So then you really believe that you're immune from self-deception?

Interesting.

 

[razeontherock]

You insist that you're neither ignorant or unstable, that you have the mind of Christ, and you can probably cite any number of passages of scripture that you believe show that you're correct. And yet you ignore the fact that you'd be just as certain of this if you were ignorant and unstable.

You ignore the process of renewing her mind that she's gone through. FAIL.

human reason is absolutely insufficient to come to certainty about matters of divine revelation, and you reading scripture gives you no objective certainty of the truth of your doctrine because in attempting to understand its meaning you're relying on your own intellect which you haven't proven is reliable.

You're trying to spread your doubts, which is bad enough. Then you try to dis rock-solid proof - the same Rock that followed Israel through the desert -

I believe you said something about being disrespectful???

 

[chilehed]

You said you COULD have searched the Scriptures more diligently but that you were
ignorant and unstable... ..:

What I intended to indicate was that searching more and more diligently can't resolve the problem that one it relying on his own intellect. I never said that I didn't study Scripture diligently.

Your idea that the Holy Spirit will lead you within yourself to a true understanding of scripture is based on your own understanding of the relevant passages. That's circular reasoning: "I know that I understand the scriptures because my understanding is that the scriptures tell me that I will understand them." It's irrational.

 

[razeontherock]

Oops! Sorry, no carnal 'rational' please. Just answer the question from scripture if you would? Thanks

​

Originally Posted by PilgrimToChrist
Is this a misconception about Protestant or a true observation -- that Protestants (in particular Evangelicals/Fundamentalists) are irrational fideists?

Heavens:
I don't know, not being a protestant.

My response above was when someone just gave an opinion as though it were fact.
I was just asking someone what the name of the person was in this scripture and nobody has told me yet. Lot of other words, but no name yet lol.

(Isa 9:6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

His Name is...

YouTube - SomeThing About That Name Jesus Kirk Franklin Rance Allen

Plus He said if you have seen Me you have seen the Father.

So if there was a specific heresy dealt with by the Church that Jesus can only refer to the 2nd person of the Godhead and does not refer to the Father or the Holy Spirit, what was that one called?

Anyway the bass player in that vid ROCKS

 

[razeontherock]

See, there we go then!
LOL

"They" say we should never assume.



Amen Brother!
God (Holy Spirit) is indeed the author of The Bible as all Scripture is God "breathed",
and profitable for teaching, rebuking instruction etc.
We have His very Spirit with us.. Helping us to understand His very heart!
We do need "the church" because it's "His body" that He manifests through
to embrace, to feed, to preach, to bless, to support and encourage etc His
creation. God loving on His people, THROUGH His people.. such a lovely
thing indeed. But only by the power of the Spirit of God is this possible

Sorry, I guess "amen" was sufficient.

Miconception about Pr's #55: they are minimalists

Preach it Sis! Water that's allowed to stagnate starts to stink very quickly - especially when the heat is turned up

 

[razeontherock]

What I intended to indicate was that searching more and more diligently can't resolve the problem that one it relying on his own intellect.

That's why we don't lean on our own understanding. Miconception about Pr's #56: Pr's lean on their own understanding, which must be the only reason they don't follow the Pope.

 

[sunlover1]

I'm not dissing you for reading scripture, I'm merely pointing out the fallacy you've fallen into.

You insist that you're neither ignorant or unstable, that you have the mind of Christ, and you can probably cite any number of passages of scripture that you believe show that you're correct. And yet you ignore the fact that you'd be just as certain of this if you were ignorant and unstable.

I can indeed.
How DO we know, or do we just live in "limbo" all of our lives
without ever knowing if we know anything?

(limbo comment was me joking)

 

[Lively Stone]

What I intended to indicate was that searching more and more diligently can't resolve the problem that one it relying on his own intellect. I never said that I didn't study Scripture diligently.

Your idea that the Holy Spirit will lead you within yourself to a true understanding of scripture is based on your own understanding of the relevant passages. That's circular reasoning: "I know that I understand the scriptures because my understanding is that the scriptures tell me that I will understand them." It's irrational.

What you say here is proof that you cannot possibly trust the Holy Spirit who is supposed to be dwelling within you to teach you by His word. Do not place your doubts upon others.