Misconceptions about Protestants

[MKJ]

You assumed as the norm a route into Catholicism which is atypical. I am simply trying to say so.

No,I assumed the route that we were discussing.

 

[Catherineanne]

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, THY will be done, THY kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven.

I'll go with what Jesus said, thanks.

You're welcome.

 

[Catherineanne]

Yikes, glad we're in different rooms. Those were Jesus' words.

The words are fine. The interpretation, that God is some kind of ATM, is pagan. God does not answer to man; we answer to him.

Good luck with that.

 

[Standing Up]

The words are fine. The interpretation, that God is some kind of ATM, is pagan. God does not answer to man; we answer to him.

Good luck with that.

You're hanging with the wrong group for you to think God is some kind of ATM.

 

[sunlover1]

You're welcome.

you just lied on me.
Those are not my words
Change that please.

 

[Catherineanne]

you just lied on me.
Those are not my words
Change that please.

You want to choose which words of the Lord to follow?

Interesting approach.

 

[Meepy]

Yeah, God "raised up" the printing press inventor, some argue. Kinda like the Roman roads and Roman pax that permitted the early dissemination of the Gospel. Over time, it was corrupted (indulgences and stuff), so the Reformation coincides with the printing press.

oh yes, there was corruption and simony. In fact simony was getting really bad after 1000AD and many councils condemned it. However before indulgences it was mostly selling positions within the Church which later the Church had to explicitly condemn. Sadly it went from that to selling indulgences because they thought it would be more non-noticeable than selling Church positions. However we must remember is that all of this corruption was condemned and anathematized in the Church councils, especially in the Lateran ones.

The corruption happened due to things like extreme poverty, greed, simony, usury, and nepotism. Not because of Church doctrine or teaching, or anything with the core tenants of the faith. The beginning of Luther's intentions were good; wanting to get rid of the corruption. But later his passion got the best of him and he started attacking the Church itself.

Even with Gutenberg, the Bible sold for 30 florins each, which was roughly three years' wages for an average clerk.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLOJ sits back and watches the show

 

[sunlover1]

You want to choose which words of the Lord to follow?

Interesting approach.

I'm not the one picking and choosing..
Please stop this

 

[Catherineanne]

I'm not the one picking and choosing..
Please stop this

Here is that distinction again:

Pagan approach; man attempts to manipulate the deity/deities by means of magic spells and behaviours. Belief is that if the spell is correctly carried out the deity MUST respond and grant man's desire. The pattern is, in effect, man in control; God manipulated by man. Evident today in some parts of our faith where statements are made about God having to answer our prayers, as long as we use the right words, have enough faith, believe sufficiently etc etc. All of these appear innocuous, but are in fact variants of works theology; man achieving the manipulation or coercion of God.

Christian approach; man attempts to discern the will of God for his life and then follow it. God in control; man submitting to God's will for his life. Example of Christian approach:

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, THY will be done, THY kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven.

Within the context of us first seeking God's will it is THEN possible to say that God will answer all our prayers. But it is still NOT possible to say that he does what we ask him to do; rather we ask him to do what we see he already intends for the world, and then we seek to fulfill his will ourselves, as far as it is in our power to do so.

 

[razeontherock]

come on, you think non-denominationalism is not a denomination?

I didn't say that.

Every group after the reformation and parts beforehand started with a man.

Well from this side of the computer screen it looks like your particular group was started by men, for men. It's still possible to be part of no such schismatic group.

 

[razeontherock]

You know Mt. 25 stuff, else off to purgatory or worse you go. Whoops, the Church killed the enemies, rather than feed and cloth them.

Whoops indeed Is that an official apologetic before the Throne?

That clip by Saxon was tasty though (Wonder what Chesterton would think of that?)

 

[razeontherock]

I think we need to be careful with trying to test God. Especially when someone doesn't have the proper understanding of prayer or the operation of the Holy Spirit. God won't grant things in prayer that are against his ordinances. Hence I don't think you properly understand the context of that verse.

Don't try to take that to the bank ...

 

[razeontherock]

The words are fine. The interpretation, that God is some kind of ATM, is pagan. God does not answer to man; we answer to him.

Good luck with that.

Nobody here interpreted this pagan blasphemy. At best, it is an honest misunderstanding. (Both appropriate and ironic, considering the thread title)

 

[Standing Up]

Whoops indeed Is that an official apologetic before the Throne?

-snip-

Perhaps if I were in their camp?

 

[MamaZ]

The words are fine. The interpretation, that God is some kind of ATM, is pagan. God does not answer to man; we answer to him.

Good luck with that.

God answers the prayers of His people. Where did Sunlover express that God is some kind of ATM? In the scriptures we see God answering mans prayers all the time.

 

[Catherineanne]

God answers the prayers of His people. Where did Sunlover express that God is some kind of ATM? In the scriptures we see God answering mans prayers all the time.

Here http://www.christianforums.com/t7529424-58/:

OR,... it means exactly what it seems to mean. and I am NOT the ethiopian who btw didn't have the Holy Spirit in him to help guide Him internally... (among other things)

“I tell you the truth, if you have faith and don’t doubt, you can do things like this and much more.
You can even say to this mountain, ‘May you be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and it will happen.
You can pray for anything, and if you have faith, you will receive it.”

Yeah, the only stipulation here is IF you have faith and DO NOT doubt...

JESUS said I can pray for anything and I will receive it. I'm going with Jesus for the win, no offense to you Meepy

= prayer treating God as ATM. It is not that it is wrong to pray, or even wrong to ask God for something, but it is insufficient to stop at what is described here; this is a pagan approach, rather than a Christian one, as I have explained already.

Certainly it is true that God answers prayer. But it is also the case that we must first seek the will of God in our lives, not just try to coerce him to do what we want.

Here is the distinction again:

Pagan spell - seeks to manipulate deity to do what we want; man in control.
Christian prayer, as taught to us by the Lord - seeks to find the will of God and then prays for that will to be done. We can petition as part of that prayer, but always with the caveat that God's will must be done, not ours; God in control.

 

[Meepy]

I didn't say that.


Well from this side of the computer screen it looks like your particular group was started by men, for men. It's still possible to be part of no such schismatic group.

Let me guess,, the "invisible church" of all believers? May I ask what happens when someone in this invisible church claims a dispute with another member? Who is going to fix the dispute. One person says a certain scripture verse is symbolic, while the other one says its literal(lets take 6-day creation for example, or baptism). Both say they are following only the scriptures. What does one do?

Secondly, it would be kinda hard to find an invisible Church. Especially when the scripture says that it will be like a large beacon on the top of a mountain. That kinda discounts those little secret underdog 1611 groups

Of course the Church was influenced by men. The big question is whether they were being led by the Holy Spirit. The scripture itself was written by men influenced by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit did not "stop" after the apostles died.

 

[razeontherock]

Here http://www.christianforums.com/t7529424-58/:

= prayer treating God as ATM. we must first seek the will of God in our lives, not just try to coerce him to do what we want.

There is nothing in what Sunlover wrote that even suggests this. You had to assume the worst! Excusing, not accusing the Sistren is the way to go

 

[razeontherock]

Let me guess the "invisible church" of all believers?

I didn't say that. Feel free to pick up the needle off your broken record anytime ...

May I ask what happens when someone in this invisible church claims a dispute with another member? Who is going to fix the dispute. One person says a certain scripture verse is symbolic, while the other one says its literal. Both say they are following only the scriptures. What does one do?

Ask all you want, just don't expect me to engage your foolishness.

Secondly, it would be kinda hard to find an invisible Church. Especially when the scripture says that it will be like a large beacon on the top of a mountain. That kinda discounts those little secret underdog 1611 groups

Apparently you're blissfully unaware that persecution is not only a thing of the past, but a Prophesied part of our future. This is an ominous sign of how un-prepared your RCC really is ...