Miracles of Saint John Maximovitch

[The Liturgist]

Who drove to a monastery with a truckload of loaded firearms? The evidence only shows that Scott had a gun.

Forgive me, I made a slight error, in that he was armed with two firearms and a knife. As soon as you questioned this report, I immediately reviewed the incident to see if either of us was in error, and it turns out we both were; I unwittingly and to my regret overstated how armed Scott Nevins was, probably based on a conversation I had about the incident on another Orthodox forum which is now defunct, whereas you understated the extent to which he was armed, based on certain online narratives which I have reviewed in fact-checking this.

This being said, I will say that our mutual error does not have a material bearing on the case, since the essential facts remain: Scott Nevins drove to the monastery with multiple weapons, but was blocked at the entrance and then followed a short distance by the night watchman, and then tragically killed himself.

However even bringing two guns and a knife to a monastery in the dead of night, only to reverse direction when obstructed by the night watchman’s SUV, is an extremely alarming course of events. And it was wrong of him to shoot himself, if he was of right mind, but it appears that he was deemed by ecclesiastical authorities to be insane.

By the way I believe I mentioned this previously, but the night watchman was very amiable and I enjoyed his company, particularly when I became alarmed by the antics of an unstable pilgrim in the men’s dormitory (on my next visit I have been advised to request a private room; I visited in the peak season and thus got stuck downstairs). He was a police officer before leaving the secular world.

It is very important to be as accurate as possible on line, because rumors and slander can result.

I agree, and it would appear that we both failed in this respect, but fortunately not in a material capacity. I overstated, and you understated, the number of weapons in his possession. Insofar as I overstated his weaponry, I regret doing so and beg forgiveness.

As for Elder Ephraim if he did in fact have two refrigerators with imported cheese, and wine daily, this would prove he was a fake.

No it wouldn’t. Cheese is permitted Orthodox Christians throughout much of the year, including today, and also to those who have a medical exemption from fasting. As far as consuming wine is concerned, I only saw him drink water, and there was no odor of alcohol on his breath, however, at a number of monasteries throughout the world, the monks do consume alcohol on a daily basis. For example, the least strong of the beers made by the Trappist monasteries in Belgium are consumed by the monks. Historically they consumed enkel (single) which was also served to Belgian children at school during meals, since until relatively recently, in most of the world wine and beer were safer to drink than water.

I will say that the food served at St. Anthony’s was amazingly good, consisting of a seafood soup among other things, with various rolls, and fresh figs (the delicious kind grown in the Southwest US which are not crunchy, as they are not pollinated with fig wasps), this being in the summer when the figs were ripe. There was also a continual supply of Greek Delight of different flavors on offer, at no charge, in the bookstore. Life, during my week at the monastery, was very simple; looking back on it, I felt like I had been restored to my youth, including the very activity of periodically going to the bookstore for candy. And there were many families there. The entire experience was a blissful respite and I was invited to spend another week, but at the time I was dealing with a crisis, and stupidly I declined. Nonetheless, Elder Paisios was extremely helpful.

I don't know what to believe. There's no proof that the person who made these claims was even the real Scott Nevins.

Well, I hope it wasn’t, because it was material of a disturbing nature. However a remark by an Archbishop suggests that they may have regarded him as insane; I should seek to find out if he received an Orthodox funeral, since these are available to suicides who are insane, but not to those who have their faculties intact and end their lives with full sanity. Indeed, if I recall it is handled like how those who willingly opt for cremation, as opposed to those who are involuntarily cremated, are handled, with only the Trisagion Prayers available in the former case, but a full Orthodox funeral available in the latter case.

Presumably, if someone elects for euthanasia, for instance, that would constitute a case where one was sane and opted for doctor-assisted self-murder, which I have no doubt is a major reason why the Orthodox Church rightfully joins all other traditional churches including the Roman Catholic Church and various Protestant churches in opposing euthanasia.

 

[The Liturgist]

The Church has enough fasts. Why would Elder Ephraim want to improve on the Church calendar of fasts, as if the Holy Spirit didn't get it right the first time? And the very notion of marital fasting implies that the couple is doing something wrong by being married. This is abuse and sounds a bit Gnostic.

That’s not what marital fasting is. Marital fasting is not having sexual intercourse on fast days, which is actually a traditional practice in Eastern Orthodoxy. I mean, if we’re not going to have meat or dairy products, why should married couples have coitus on those days?

It does not imply that the couple is doing anything wrong by being married. I positively reject your interpretation of it.

I would also note that according to the canons of the early church, married couples can commit sodomy, and can be penanced for it, according to the Rudder (this is if I recall specifically addressed by St. John the Faster). Specifically married couples should not lust after strange flesh, even if it is of their own partner, or engage in unnatural sexual relations.

+

Also I would note a certain inconsistency on your part, in that you appear to object to abstinence from sexual relations on fast days, on the grounds that the “church has enough fasts”, and yet if Elder Ephraim partakes of wine, and imported cheese* this automatically makes him a fake. Despite the fact that he saved a monastery on Mount Athos that was teetering on the brink, reviving it and promoting hesychasm at it, and opened 21 monasteries in North America, which I believe is a record.

He did acquire a lot of enemies on the liberal side of GoArch due to his traditionalism, but he was obedient: his monastery, for example, adhered to the Revised Julian Calendar and I think it was using the Violakis Typikon, although on this part I could be mistaken. The services were traditional mainly with respect to their reverence and formality and the use of Byzantine Chant.**


*I suspect the cheese in question is ordinary cheese imported from Greece and used in the baking of bread at the monastery, and also served to guess; I recall having some delicious cheese at meals on non-fasting days. On fasting days, the cheese would not be set out, of course.

** I would note that I am not a Byzantine Chant purist, in that I particularly like the polyphonic music of Tikey Zes, Michaelides, and other composers, some of whom, including Tikey Zes, put to good use the organs that many Greek Orthodox churches feature, something which does not scandalize me, since churches in Ionia are known for having organs, probably due to Venetian influence as this was a Venetian colony (I think it was Ionia; I may be confusing it with Corinth, but it was one or the other) and if I recall the food there has some Italian characteristics, and in still greater antiquity, we know the Narthex of the Hagia Sophia had an organ that was played for the benefit of those waiting therein before the services. Considering a major use of organs in the Western Church consists of preludes and postludes, in the form of, among other things, the preludes and fugues composed by JS Bach and other great composers, this seems entirely proper. However, I do respect the movement to preserve Byzantine Chant, and the movement to preserve traditional liturgical practices even more. Some Greek Orthodox parishes have extremely minimal iconostases which I greatly dislike. I have heard from many sources that GoArch priests tend to be annoyed when members of their parish return from St. Anthony’s and other monasteries and convents founded by Elder Ephraim and express a desire for worship to be more like what they experienced on their pilgrimage.

Indeed, if Mount Athos is the vital center of Tradition in the otherwise somewhat liberal and Hellenocentric Ecumenical Patriarchate, then Elder Ephraim’s monasteries, especially St. Anthony’s, are the vital center of Tradition and also of growth in membership, in the otherwise shrinking Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of North America, which has a reputation for liberalism and Greek ethnocentricity (to the extent that even ACROD has a Greek bishop; if one wants a Carpatho-Rusyn bishop, apparently they are only found in the OCA, which has a very large number of former ACROD parishes, and where prostopinije has been allowed to make a major contribution throughout the autocephalous church*** in terms of facilitating congregational singing.

One other weird thing that troubles me is how the EP attempted to abolish the autonomous Russian Orthodox churches of the expatriate community in Europe, which included the large cathedral in Paris, which was associated with a major school of Russian Orthodox theology which would later have an impact on the Orthodox Church in America. It seems like it would be a counterproductive move given the disagreements the EP has with the MP, since in forcing those parishes to go under the omophorion of another Patriarchate, they effectively lost their main channel for influencing Russian Orthodoxy.

*** The EP unfortunately does not recognize the OCA as autocephalous because they did not grant the Tome of Autocephaly, and as expressed by the current Archbishop of North America, their position is that the Ecumenical Patriarch is primus sine paribus, rather than primus inter pares, and only he has the power to grant (and distressingly, to revoke) autocephalous status.

 

[The Liturgist]

First we need to know what is meant by "marital fasts" and whether this is simply the Elder instructing married couples to actually hold to the fasts established by the Church or something over and above. I suspect it is the former rather than the latter.

Indeed, all evidence I have points to the former being the case.

 

[ArmyMatt]

The Church has enough fasts. Why would Elder Ephraim want to improve on the Church calendar of fasts, as if the Holy Spirit didn't get it right the first time? And the very notion of marital fasting implies that the couple is doing something wrong by being married. This is abuse and sounds a bit Gnostic.

except that St Paul says that married people should fast. married couples should restrain from sex during the regular fasts, and spiritual fathers can place this on spiritual children at other times just like anything.

and marital fasting doesn’t imply married people are doing anything wrong. we don’t fast from food because food is wrong.

 

[abacabb3]

The Church has enough fasts. Why would Elder Ephraim want to improve on the Church calendar of fasts, as if the Holy Spirit didn't get it right the first time? And the very notion of marital fasting implies that the couple is doing something wrong by being married. This is abuse and sounds a bit Gnostic.

Marital fasting is done regularly during the regular fast days. This is not gnostic, any more than not eating steak during Lent.

 

[The Liturgist]

Marital fasting is done regularly during the regular fast days. This is not gnostic, any more than not eating steak during Lent.

This is entirely correct. Indeed it is no more Gnostic than refraining from gluttony. Actually if we look at the highly perverse practices of some Gnostic sects such as the Nicolaitans and the Borborites or “Mud People” , the former documented by St. Irenaeus, and the latter documented by the fourth century heresiologist St. Epiphanios of Salamis in his encyclopedia of heresies, the Panarion (meaning “medicine chest” or “first aid kit”), marital fasting is in opposition to the worst excesses of Gnosticism with regards to sexual morality.

 

[Prodigal7]

I know mentally ill people so honestly this does not really prove to much. There must be some tangible verification. Ive seen bonafide miracles like deleted tapes all of the sudden not being deleted after i checked again subsequent to prayer. Sure, i can be making stuff up so i dont claim thats some irrefutable truth claim, but the point is i have tangible verification that because i know i am not lying, i know i am also not mistaken .


I see a possibility here of being mistaken unless you are aware of something tangible.

I think the modern age always tries to explain away the spiritual.

Lots of things are not tangible Including our thoughts, feels, and intuitions. My life seems to go worse when I walk around with a flat earth materialistic type of world view.