Miracles & Healings

[Ace777]

There is a LOT we can investigate about SCIENCE and Miracles and Healing. So there really is NO REASON to drift off of that subject.

First of all Science depends a lot on research. The PROBLEM is they do not know HOW to set up a study. The basic belief is that the "miracle" has to go beyond what you can achieve though the placebo effect. My dad was an expert on this so I know about the power of suggestion and the power of positive thinking to bring about healing. Still we have to go beyond the placebo effect to establish something in science. Even though clearly there are advantages to the placebo effect and what people may perceive as being a miracle.

Second we have to look at what they call spontaneous remission.

"When cancer suddenly disappears, people may call it a miracle. But a recent study by three physician-researchers from DMS and Norway found that spontaneous remission of breast cancer is actually quite common. More than one in five invasive cancers detected in the study by mammography vanished without ever being treated."

Dartmouth Medicine Magazine :: Discoveries : Study reveals surprising cancer remission rate

So science does not use the word miracle, they use the term spontaneous remission. Or they will write it off to Psychology.

Spontaneous remission in psychology means that a symptom will be spontaneously reduced or disappear without any therapeutic intervention. Spontaneous remission mostly occurs when a person with depression or anxiety experiences the reduction.

We can go where people want to go, we just need to remember the forum we are on.

Spontaneous Recovery in Psychology | Definition & Example - Lesson | Study.com

Learn about spontaneous recovery and various examples, including classical conditioning and operant conditioning. Understand its importance in...

study.com

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

You would have to find evidence that the remission is attributable to and correlated with some religious act or practice and then rule out that said act or practice didn't itself, of it's own efficacy, cause the remission (i.e. if taking a mix of herbs is part of the religious act you'd have to rule out that the herbs themselves were what aided or caused the remission). In addition to that you would need to establish that people who performed these acts or even religious people in general had significantly higher rates of remission than people who did not, controlling for environmental, dietary, and other factors. This is extremely difficult to do, especially with something like cancer. Ultimately it has to be more than, "we can't explain this remission, therefore, MIRACLE!" for it to even be scientific. Because then you'd need to show the source of the miracle in order to attribute the remission to it followed by experiments that show how it actually works.

A great area to study miraculous healing would be something more concrete, I think. Something like the spontaneous regrowth of amputated limbs.

 

[Ace777]

A great area to study miraculous healing would be something more concrete, I think. Something like the spontaneous regrowth of amputated limbs.

Funny you should mention that. I know a women with a spine that is twisted up like a pretzel. They do things like put iron rods in the spine in an attempt to keep it straight. They put her in physical theory and it is amazing the progress she is making. Nothing short of a miracle. Yet this is all established proven medical procedure. I went through physical therapy once and the doctor was impressed with the progress I made.

I remember when penicillin came out they considered this a medical miracle. So doctors do believe in miracles. Only they may not attribute this to a God. The Law of Attraction attribute all of this to the power of positive thinking and the power of generating positive energy. Just like it makes people sick and depressed to be negative and have negative energy. Also the law of karma goes far beyond what people talk about out on the streets. The karma people call this the law of cause and effect. So you have three independent groups or systems of belief that all tend to be able to generate the same results and doctors are not that far behind in getting good results.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I remember when penicillin came out they considered this a medical miracle.

Penicillin became widely used before you were born.

 

[Ace777]

Penicillin became widely used before you were born.

My father was a medical doctor and my mother was a bacteriologist so that was a subject they talked about often.

 

[Hans Blaster]

My father was a medical doctor and my mother was a bacteriologist so that was a subject they talked about often.

That does not change the fact that Penicillin became available for military use during WW2 and general civilian use right after it. Do you remember 1949? If not, then your claim was incorrect. You are not your mother or father.

 

[Ace777]

Do you remember 1949?

I was born in 52' but I am well aware of what took place before I was born. Again you judge others of what you are guilty of. I wonder why you are unable to confront yourself to see who you really are? Again and again you project yourself out on others to accuse them of what you are doing.

Projection is a psychological defense mechanism proposed by Anna Freud. In this process, an individual attributes unwanted thoughts, feelings, and motives onto another person. Essentially, it involves projecting one’s own inner experiences or emotions onto someone else, as if they were the source of those feelings. It’s almost like turning against oneself by placing those feelings externally.

 

[AV1611VET]

Healings are one thing, but miracles, in my opinion, cannot be studied.

Expecting science to study miracles is like expecting a calculator to read lips.

 

[Ace777]

Expecting science to study miracles is like expecting a calculator to read lips.

Actually I do use alexa for my calculator most of the time. I do not even know where it is on my phone or computer.

 

[AV1611VET]

Actually I do use alexa for my calculator most of the time. I do not even know where it is on my phone or computer.

How's that working out for you as far as investigating miracles is concerned?

 

[Hans Blaster]

I was born in 52' but I am well aware of what took place before I was born.

It is not what you are aware of it is what you claimed to *REMEMBER*. It is impossible to remember something that happened before you were born.

Again you judge others of what you are guilty of. I wonder why you are unable to confront yourself to see who you really are? Again and again you project yourself out on others to accuse them of what you are doing.

I am not making claims about remembering things happening that I didn't experience.

Projection is a psychological defense mechanism proposed by Anna Freud.

Good grief, man. Get a grip.

Would you like me to point out other clear errors in the same post?

 

[Ace777]

How's that working out for you as far as investigating miracles is concerned?

Actually Alexia is an idiot, so it does not work out very well. Although AI can do far more complicated math than a calculator can do.

I was going to talk about that though. When we read in the bible that the vessel was 15 feet in diameter. It was round, 7 1/2 feet high, and had a circumference of 45 feet. If the diameter was 15 feet the circumference would be 47.2 feet. If the circumference was 45 than the diameter would be 14.324. 0.676 divided by 2 = 0.338. This works out to 4.056 inches. So we can assume that the Brim of the Vessel is around 4 inches.

We have to actually do the math. Of course the vessel itself was not that thick. Just the brim at the top was. That helps to give structure to the rest of the vessel. Because it held hundreds of gallons of water. It was big enough the priest could actually climb in and take a bath. Perhaps that is why they do full water baptism today instead of just sprinkling a few drops on people.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I prayed for a lady with several malignant tumours in the thyroid, in Jesus Name, for there to be no cancer.

They got her on the operating table within a few days and took the thyroid out.

On Post Op biopsy they could see no cancer and apologised for operating. They said in 2000 operations they had never seen such a thing. I have publicly posted the medical notes.

I prayed for a lady in Jerusalem having a heart attack. She was healed in about two minutes and never had a relapse, I am still in contact with her after 40 years. Her aunty died of the same symptoms at the same age. I was guided to visit her without any knowledge of her condition right at the time of the episode.

I prayed for a gentleman in a public park who was ex RCMP and had been shot in the legs. He was healed, in Jesus Name, on the spot and trying out his new walk. I was literally jumping for joy and rejoicing to be privileged to see such a beautiful healing.

This is a sample of many I could speak of...

The journey to my being able to share such experiences has not been easy, but I am privileged to share that there is a lot going on beyond the reach of science, when the Creator decides to intervene.

 

[Larniavc]

The PROBLEM is they do not know HOW to set up a study.

That’s a bold statement, Cotton. Let’s see how this pans out.

 

[Larniavc]

The Law of Attraction

This is pure make believe.

 

[Nagomirov]

A sick girl of about 12 years old came to my confession from an orphanage for the mentally retarded. She could not connect two words, spinning like a top, her abnormal look, constant grimaces, her whole appearance spoke of “inferiority”. She began to confess and take communion every Sunday. A year later, she had a need for revelation of thoughts (who prays and often confesses, he knows what it is). The girl began to lead such an attentive spiritual life, which even those people who consider themselves deeply religious and churchly do not suspect. She began to pray the Jesus Prayer (Lord, Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me sinful), to fight against prepositions, to forgive offenses, to endure everything. Within a few months, she learned to read and write, passed all the signs of mental retardation, the seal of spirituality was depicted on her face. In everything she said and did, there was feeling and reasoning. When I saw her, my heart shrunk from the sinfulness and untruth of my own life. Then she was transferred to another orphanage, and we did not see her for a while. But one day she came to me and said: “Father, do not worry for me, I am always with God. He does not leave me even in my sleep ... " If after this all the wise men of the world come together and present me with the most exact proofs that there is no God, I will look at them with sorrow.

- Archpriest Alexei Grachev (1959 - 1998)

 

[Nagomirov]

The miracle of healing by the cross

 

[AV1611VET]

When we read in the bible that the vessel was 15 feet in diameter.

What vessel?

 

[Ace777]

What vessel?

1Kings7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

Like I said I wanted to do the math to see how wide the brim was at the top.

 

[Ace777]

This is pure make believe.

No pun intended right? My father had 15 degrees and certificates in hypnosis. I gave them to the historical society. He could hypnotise a whole audience. He hypnotised my whole school once. Except for me because as you say, it is all make believe. He also had 16 medical degrees and certificates, I am pretty sure that was not make believe. I still have those.