Minimum Wage

[catholicbybirth]

It's good for society because living standards improve. People have wages they can actually live on.

I don't need to support a theoretical arguement. The evidence is plain. We brought in a minimum wage in 1999. Had it for 14 years now, and it has not led to job losses or increased unemployment.

In fact, employment levels were going just fine until the bankers got greedy.

If people who flip burgers make $15/hr, then how much will the burgers cost? I mean, now that the minimum wage is $7.25 and the very basic hamburger is $1.39 or so, and the big burgers are at least $4.00 and sometimes as much as close to $6.00. When the minimum wage gets raised to $15/hr, then the $1.39 burger will cost close to $3.00 and the nearly $6.00 burger will cost close to $15.00. How many burger joints will close? Ah, yes, that will improve the workers lot in life, and everyone else's as well.

Janice

 

[Root of Jesse]

When minimum wage pays less than what a person can get on public assistance, one thing must change.

Aside from that, let's look at what jobs actually pay minimum wage:
Fast food. Janitorial. Parking lot attendants. Hospital housekeeping. Some security guards. Dishwashers. Physical manual low skill labor.

I'm not demeaning these jobs at all. The point is that they are entry level jobs which are mostly for people to acquire necessary skills to move up into a company. A proving ground to become management. As a young man, I hired entry-level employees as a manager of a national pizza restaurant chain. People either proved themselves and moved up, or they left. Nobody stayed at minimum wage.

Minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage, and I believe that if someone is working full time, they should be paid more than minimum wage. But this is not to say they should raise minimum wage.

Let's look at another apect: You say people should be paid more than what minimum wage pays today. Tell me what you think minimum wage should be? What's "fair"? And who decides what's "fair"

I believe the people can vote with their feet. If they're in a job and they're not happy with the wage, and they can't seem to get a raise, it's time for them to find a job that pays better, and move there. I worked for a company for 7 years, and after two years of voluntary wage freeze, they offered a 2% raise. I thought I was worth more, so I went looking, and found a place where I got a 35% increase, not to mention better working conditions and hours. I found it by God's grace, and I'm so thankful every day. But the way to move out of minimum wage jobs is to get a skill that business needs, and price yourself in the market.

Another by-product of increasing minimum wage is that the company should, to be fair, raise everyone else's wages that moved up in the organization. If I started at $8 and got a raise through hard work to $10, and then the government came along and said everyone should make $10, I'd expect my employer to give me $12. Can they honestly afford it, though? The best way to make more is to acquire skills and talents.

 

[Root of Jesse]

If people who flip burgers make $15/hr, then how much will the burgers cost? I mean, now that the minimum wage is $7.25 and the very basic hamburger is $1.39 or so, and the big burgers are at least $4.00 and sometimes as much as close to $6.00. When the minimum wage gets raised to $15/hr, then the $1.39 burger will cost close to $3.00 and the nearly $6.00 burger will cost close to $15.00. How many burger joints will close? Ah, yes, that will improve the workers lot in life, and everyone else's as well.

Janice

As proof of that, there's a minimum wage in the city I live in. It's $12 and the mayor is advocating $15. An average lunch burger is $10.50, fries and drink extra, and Subways here do not sell $5 foot-longs.

 

[Root of Jesse]

It's good for society because living standards improve. People have wages they can actually live on.

I don't need to support a theoretical arguement. The evidence is plain. We brought in a minimum wage in 1999. Had it for 14 years now, and it has not led to job losses or increased unemployment.

In fact, employment levels were going just fine until the bankers got greedy.

If that's the case, I'd be willing to bet my salary that prices increased, or taxes decreased to compensate.

 

[Erose]

As long as there is greed, minimum wages will remain in place, but also have little effect in helping people at the bottom earn a living wage.

Your right minimum wages are here to stay, and in all seriousness you couldn't even reduce the minimum wage. It is the base now. But personally I think it has less to do with corporate greed than it does with it being a tool for politicians to get elected. Even though there is no evidence that raising the minimum wage works, it buys votes, because everyone likes the idea of having a few extra dollars in their pocket. Thus politicians take advantage of it.

Perhaps the solution would be to have wage gap laws, where the CEO of a corporation can't make more than 25%, or some other figure, over the lowest paid employee ?

Interesting idea, the only problem I see with it, that it may discourage people from wanting to climb the ladder.

I was in a manufacturing facility a little while back negotiated with their union a pay scale that was extremely tight. On the machines in the plant you have helpers and you have operators. Well the pay difference between operators and helpers were $.25/hour. So what happened no body wanted to be an operator. Why would they want that much more responsibility, for what a $10.00 a week pay raise?

People should be compensated by their skill level and the importance of their skill level, along with the environment they work in. A door greeter at Walmart should never be making as much as or close to let's say an electrician or machinist. Nor should an electrician be making more money than let's say a medical doctor.

But I do agree with you that many companies have gotten top heavy and that should be fixed. How to fix it I don't know. As long as you got companies willing to pay CEOs the amount of money they are paying them, those CEOs are going to keep making that type of money. The same goes to professional athletes and movie stars. As long as you have someone out there willing to pay those type of salaries, then I really don't see it changing.

I remember reading how the wage-gap between top executives and employees in US corporations, was far greater than in other nations.

FYI, I'm just throwing out ideas here.

Good ones.

The bottom line is, without a change of heart, nothing will ever happen to close the gap between rich and poor.

Very true statement. Sadly it has always been this way, and I am afraid will be this way until the Good Lord comes again. Sin has that way about it, and it is something not easily dealt with. I mean the government has spent trillions since 2007 to minimize poverty, but all we gotten out of that trillion+ dollar spending is deeper national debt and more people below the poverty line.

 

[S.ilvio]

If people who flip burgers make $15/hr, then how much will the burgers cost? I mean, now that the minimum wage is $7.25 and the very basic hamburger is $1.39 or so, and the big burgers are at least $4.00 and sometimes as much as close to $6.00. When the minimum wage gets raised to $15/hr, then the $1.39 burger will cost close to $3.00 and the nearly $6.00 burger will cost close to $15.00. How many burger joints will close? Ah, yes, that will improve the workers lot in life, and everyone else's as well.

Janice

The less McDonalds there are on this planet the better for society in my view.

However. I'll take you up on your question. In Ireland the minimum wage is €8.65/$11.95.

A Big Mac in an Irish McDonalds is €3.50/$4.84. There's no sign on McD's going out of business and the workers take home a good basic liveable wage. in fact I'm told McD's pay above Min wage in Dublin...

 

[LoAmmi]

The rich have been getting richer for several consecutive decades. The gap between the rich and the poor has been increasing for several consecutive decades.

Trickle down works (for the rich). I mean, when they have more money, they'll have more money.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

FYI, before we trash McDonald's, my daughter works there and makes well over minimum wage.

The advantage for herself and other mothers, is that they are very flexible with them over kid issues.




Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Thought this was fitting for the thread.

“There was room for the rich; there was room for those who were clothed in soft garments…But when finally the scrolls of history are completed down to the last word of time, the saddest lines of all will be: ‘There was no room in the inn.’ The inn was the gathering place of public opinion, the focal point of the world’s moods, the rendezvous of the worldly, the rallying place of the popular and the successful. But there’s no room in the place where the world gathers. The stable is the place for outcasts, the ignored, and the forgotten. The world might have expected the Son of God to be born in an inn; a stable would certainly be the last place in the world where one would look for Him. The lesson is: divinity is always where you least expect to find it. So the Son of God-Made-Man is invited to enter into His own world through a back door.” Archbishop Fulton Sheen (Bishop Sheen Catechism)

Jim

 

[Erose]

If people who flip burgers make $15/hr, then how much will the burgers cost? I mean, now that the minimum wage is $7.25 and the very basic hamburger is $1.39 or so, and the big burgers are at least $4.00 and sometimes as much as close to $6.00. When the minimum wage gets raised to $15/hr, then the $1.39 burger will cost close to $3.00 and the nearly $6.00 burger will cost close to $15.00. How many burger joints will close? Ah, yes, that will improve the workers lot in life, and everyone else's as well.

Janice

Considering that today you just about nocking $10.00 out of your pocket leaving McDonalds, can you just imagine what it will be like if the minimum wage was $15.00? Granted I hardly go to McDonalds anymore because I think the prices are too high for what you are getting.

 

[S.ilvio]

FYI, before we trash McDonald's, my daughter works there and makes well over minimum wage.

The advantage for herself and other mothers, is that they are very flexible with them over kid issues.




Jim

I think they pay €1 above minimum wage here. They are much derided and I dislike their marketing, but I do have a sneaky Big Mac when my conscience is distracted...

 

[Root of Jesse]

FYI, before we trash McDonald's, my daughter works there and makes well over minimum wage.

The advantage for herself and other mothers, is that they are very flexible with them over kid issues.




Jim

Jim, how much did she earn to start? And did she already have skills? What do they pay entry level people? I used to work for BK, and it was up to the franchise, but the first 3 months was at minimum.

But you bring up a great point-not every company's compensation can be expressed in the business end of the paycheck.
One of my benefits is a 6-hour day with a lunch hour, meaning I have to be away from home 7 hours plus commute. Another one is that they allow me extra time at lunch to go to Daily Mass and walk the mile each way. Another is that they match 50% of my 401K contribution.

I realize that what you take home to feed your family is the most important. But when a company wants to work with the employees, rather than take sides with them, it counts for something.

 

[Erose]

Trickle down works (for the rich). I mean, when they have more money, they'll have more money.

And what we got now is any better? No what we get is politicians just keep getting richer and everyone else who can't afford to pay a politician to leave them alone is getting poorer.

For me the most prosperous time in this country was the period between Reagan though Bush 2. The most healthy financially was under Bush 2. Now I have been stuck at the same pay for 5 years now after taking a $15000 pay cut.

You want better paying jobs the unemployment rate has to get back to the 3-4% where you will have healthy competition between companies for employees. With a high unemployment rate you just don't have that competition, so people become better off stick with what they got, even though they aren't making as much money as they did before.

 

[LoAmmi]

And what we got now is any better? No what we get is politicians just keep getting richer and everyone else who can't afford to pay a politician to leave them alone is getting poorer.

You are creating a false dichotomy between trickle down and what we have now.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Jim, how much did she earn to start? And did she already have skills? What do they pay entry level people? I used to work for BK, and it was up to the franchise, but the first 3 months was at minimum.

But you bring up a great point-not every company's compensation can be expressed in the business end of the paycheck.
One of my benefits is a 6-hour day with a lunch hour, meaning I have to be away from home 7 hours plus commute. Another one is that they allow me extra time at lunch to go to Daily Mass and walk the mile each way. Another is that they match 50% of my 401K contribution.

I realize that what you take home to feed your family is the most important. But when a company wants to work with the employees, rather than take sides with them, it counts for something.

She started slightly higher than minimum wage, and quickly got raises. They wanted her full time as a shift manager, but kid management issue prevented that. She had some college at the time.


But as in your case, it's up to the owner of the franchise, how they pay their employees, although corporate has guidelines.

Don't get me wrong, she'd rather be doing something else, but until the kids are old enough to leave at home on their own, Macs works out well for her.


Jim

 

[Root of Jesse]

She started slightly higher than minimum wage, and quickly got raises. They wanted her full time as a shift manager, but kid management issue prevented that. She had some college at the time.


But as in your case, it's up to the owner of the franchise, how they pay their employees, although corporate has guidelines.

Don't get me wrong, she'd rather be doing something else, but until the kids are old enough to leave at home on their own, Macs works out well for her.


Jim

Man, as good as I have it, riding 6 hours in a cubicle and earning what I earn, I'd rather be doing something else... But I do my job and well, and they pay me, and well. It's not bad. I'd rather be in full time service to the Lord, though. And got a wife and a mortgage, so I guess I'll take what God gave me. (My boss took the team out to lunch on Friday, and knew everyone's dietary limitations-I don't eat meat on Friday, and one of my colleagues is Muslim and doesn't eat pork. I was impressed! And the bill for us was over $250.) I have great perks.

 

[Gnarwhal]

As a business owner, The minimum wage laws are not a factor. I start a new hire at a wage level commensurate with their skill level. Entry level is more than $15.00 an hour. My average worker makes $25.00, plus benefits. I pay my people well because they are highly skilled, highly motivated and work very hard.

Economics 101: incentivizing. Employers like Costco and In-N-Out know that paying their employees well compels their employees to "go the extra mile" and do so with a good attitude. Generally speaking, employees at both of those companies are very helpful and pleasant to engage with because they tend to enjoy their jobs and feel appreciated.

 

[Erose]

You are creating a false dichotomy between trickle down and what we have now.

Nope don't think so. Trickle down economics works a lot better than redistribution. Is it perfect heavens no!!! But it is better than Keynesian economics has has been shown (and continues to be shown) not to work.

 

[S.ilvio]

Nope don't think so. Trickle down economics works a lot better than redistribution. Is it perfect heavens no!!! But it is better than Keynesian economics has has been shown (and continues to be shown) not to work.

Have you read the Pope's views on the myth of Trickle Down..?

 

[ebia]

Have you read the Pope's views on the myth of Trickle Down..?

cue "that's not really what he meant"