"Minimal" requirements to be a Christian?

[Albion]

(3) If you've monitored the "Non-Christian Religion" section of this site, you know that Mormons are making the case that they believe in salvation by grace through repentance and faith in Christ's atoning death on the cross. They believe they are saved for service, but believe that their salvation is not based on merit. Yet they also believe in what evangelicals regard as a false prophet (Joseph Smith) and a false book of revelation (The Book of Mormon), and so, most of the evangelicals debating them reject Mormon claims to be true Christians. My question is, why can't we rejoice in the possibility that they meet the minimal conditions for qualifying as true Christians?

In short, you can't worship some gods other than the God of the Old and New Testaments and be a Christian just like a Methodist or Catholic.

It's not a lot more complicated than that, but since you focus on the Mormons and they have an ersatz "Bible" that no (other) Christians in previous history ever heard of, and which is full of imaginative doings and teachings that have no connection to the faith of Christ...well, that's plenty enough to show why the "minimal requirements" are not met in this case.

 

[Deadworm]

Albion: "In short, you can't worship some gods other than the God of the Old and New Testaments and be a Christian just like a Methodist or Catholic."

They also believe the NT is the authority of our Bible. So who authorized you to say that the mythology in the Book of Mormon is relevant to their chances of salvation and cancels the validity of the B of M's many articulations of salvation by grace through repentance and faith in Christ's atoning death? I remind you that the pagans whose salvation is assured in Romans 2:7, 10 "by doing good" do not worship a god remotely like the God of the Bible. Yu duck the force of my points (1) and (2).

 

[Albion]

Albion: "In short, you can't worship some gods other than the God of the Old and New Testaments and be a Christian just like a Methodist or Catholic."

They also believe the NT is the authority of our Bible.

No, they do not! They openly say that the Bible, while being important to them, contains errors and so can't be trusted. And they treat the Book of Mormon as another testament, so that alone means that the Bible isn't considered the authority.

I remind you that the pagans whose salvation is assured in Romans 2:7, 10 "by doing good" do not worship a god remotely like the God of the Bible. Yu duck the force of my points (1) and (2).

Since you want a reply to that particular point, I believe that you've badly misunderstood the meaning of those verses.

 

[Deadworm]

Albion: "No, they do not! They openly say that the Bible, while being important to them, contains errors and so can't be trusted."

Wrong! They consider the Bible the word of God, despite its errors, and diligently study the KJV. In fact, when a group of us attended their presentation of the basics of their faith, their speakers gave the misleading impression that only the Bible is the Word of God! Read and learn:
http://whymormonism.org/31/bible

Albion: "Since you want a reply to that particular point, I believe that you've badly misunderstood the meaning of those verses."

I tremble before your unsubstantiated decrees!

 

[com7fy8]

He asks, "What is the minimum of belief that would qualify one to be considered a Christian?"

What do you believe are the minimal requirements for one to be considered a Christian and to recieve the Divine benefits

So, yes, Albion, Tucker does ask this.

It seems to me that one has to publicly declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, they have to confess their sins, and they have to be baptized in the name of Lord Jesus to even start to be considered a Christian

I think of how Jesus says,

"'No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.'" (John 6:44)

"'"It is written in the prophets, "And they shall all be taught by God." Therefore, everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.'" (John 6:45)

So, included in the minimum is how God draws a person to Jesus and has the person learn so he or she comes to Jesus. So, yes indeed God Himself makes sure we get things right, including so we trust in the real Jesus > versus what Paul says can happen > 2 Corinthians 11:3-4. The real Jesus gives us "rest for your souls", as we trust Him and learn from Him > Matthew 11:28-30.

and receive the Divine benefits.

So, Tucker is not asking only how to begin to be a Christian; therefore, I have gotten into other things which the Bible says, about being a Christian.

But are there other things that absolutely have to be done

So, yes, Tucker is asking for "other things". And, among other things, I have offered how a child of God needs to seek our Father for how He is able to correct us > Hebrews 12:4-11 > this correction changes us to become "partakers of His holiness", and Hebrews 12:14 says,

"Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

And I already have provided an amount of input about other things involved in being a Christian; so you, Albion, and others are welcome to share with Tucker what is involved in the holiness which is required so we can see the Lord. I know I am not the only Christian who has something to offer about this; we need each other's help and ministering of this. So, anyone else who can, please do offer what you have. But I intend to share what I have, too, but I think different ones of us should help Tucker with this, about what is the real holiness which is needed, in order to see our Lord Jesus who is our soon-coming Groom.

To me if one has publicly declared Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, has confessed their sins to Lord Jesus and asked for forgiveness, and has been baptized, then they are a Christian.

From there I am not sure where things go.

So, yes, I think Tucker is totally clear that he would appreciate our input about where to go, after we have gotten saved.

It seems to me that as long as you do not sin against the Holy Spirit and that you are not bullheadedly willful about your sins that everything can eventually be worked out so that one can/will recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those who declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior.

I have already offered an amount of things about this. So, before I offer anything about the holiness which is required, I think I should let Albion and anyone else give you what they have to minister about what is involved in the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

 

[Albion]

So, yes, I think Tucker is totally clear that he would appreciate our input about where to go, after we have gotten saved. I have already offered an amount of things about this. So, before I offer anything about the holiness which is required, I think I should let Albion and anyone else give you what they have to minister about what is involved in the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

You're right to have steered the discussion back to its original purpose and I am supportive of what you've written here. The problem, if that's an appropriate word, is that Tucker made a good case in his OP for answering his own question, only to have other posters subtract from it and suggest that the minimum requirements are just to do what Jesus said...or something equally vague. Tucker was not that vague himself, but he did speak of "Divine benefits," which is a term that could be interpreted quite a few ways, and never made any mention of "holiness."

 

[com7fy8]

he did speak of "Divine benefits," which is a term that could be interpreted quite a few ways, and never made any mention of "holiness."

But becoming "partakers of His holiness" (Hebrews 12:4-11), I would say, certainly is a benefit. So, please . . . anyone else along with me . . . share what you have about this. Or, do you think that sharing in God's own holiness is not a benefit of being a Christian??

 

[Resha Caner]

Phrasing the question in terms of "requirements" seems to miss the point ... as if it's all about what we do and God need not even exist.

 

[JacksBratt]

What do you believe are the minimal requirements for one to be considered a Christian and to recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

It seems to me that one has to publicly declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, they have to confess their sins, and they have to be baptized in the name of Lord Jesus to even start to be considered a Christian and receive the Divine benefits. But are there other things that absolutely have to be done for one to be considered a Christian and to receive the Divine benefits promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

To me if one has publicly declared Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, has confessed their sins to Lord Jesus and asked for forgiveness, and has been baptized, then they are a Christian. From there I am not sure where things go. It seems to me that as long as you do not sin against the Holy Spirit and that you are not bullheadedly willful about your sins that everything can eventually be worked out so that one can/will recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those who declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior.

What do you believe about what minimally needs to be done to be considered a Christian and to recieve the benefits that are promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

I believe that the minimum comes as a process:

1/ Understand and believe that you are a sinner and, as such, will be condemned to hell. (I am a sinner)
2/ Understand and believe that you are powerless, under your own ability, strength and power, to earn your salvation.(Cannot be saved by works)
3/ Have a desire to change direction in your life and live a Christ like life.
4/ Admit to Christ that you are a sinner and are ashamed of your sins.
5/ Ask Christ to forgive you from you sins, enter your life and be your new guide in all your actions.
6/ Accept Christs free gift of salvation. (Repentance)
7/ Live a life with a constant awareness of Christs will for you that will be evident to others in you daily life.

 

[com7fy8]

That's good, I think. And yes, as Resha says, it is about how God does this with us. And He uses His people to help to turn sinners >

"from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God" > in Acts 26:18. There is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience," Paul says in Ephesians 2:2. So, we need how God delivers us from Satan's evil spirit. In sin, our personalities were weak so thinking and feelings and emotions could be because of the stinking and messing of Satan's spirit "which works", Paul says, in people of disobedience. And so we needed to become new persons with more and more of the personality of Jesus > 2 Corinthians 5:17. This is why, I consider, Jesus says >

"If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up His cross daily, and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23)

Our human self keeps us available to how Satan's spirit would mess our personality. We need how God transforms us into His love and cures our nature so we are not available to being messed by frustration, nasty angry reacting, bitterness, dominating and dictatorial passions for pleasures and excitement, unforgiveness, and self-righteous criticizing and fear and worry and abusing each other with our arguing and complaining and other bad example of how to relate. By the way, I would say that if we are delivered from this negative and nasty stuff, this deliverance is done only by God's almighty grace and so this is a benefit of being a Christian. And this is involved in becoming holy, "as He who called you is holy" (in 1 Peter 1:15) > > > how God changes us into how His love is, so we are not just human natured and keep on suffering in being messed-with and violated by negative and nasty and naughty and numbskulling stuff. Holiness has to do with how God's love is and has us becoming > "as He is, so are we in this world." (in 1 John 4:17)

 

[KarlX]

What do you believe are the minimal requirements for one to be considered a Christian and to recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

It seems to me that one has to publicly declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, they have to confess their sins, and they have to be baptized in the name of Lord Jesus to even start to be considered a Christian and receive the Divine benefits. But are there other things that absolutely have to be done for one to be considered a Christian and to receive the Divine benefits promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

To me if one has publicly declared Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, has confessed their sins to Lord Jesus and asked for forgiveness, and has been baptized, then they are a Christian. From there I am not sure where things go. It seems to me that as long as you do not sin against the Holy Spirit and that you are not bullheadedly willful about your sins that everything can eventually be worked out so that one can/will recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those who declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior.

What do you believe about what minimally needs to be done to be considered a Christian and to recieve the benefits that are promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

Romans
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is all you have to do to be saved .
Keep in mind if we have to get technical about things then it becomes a work.
What I mean is suppose a hypothetical as an example ;
a mute person who is absolutely paralyzed hears about Jesus and believes minutes later an accident occurs right out of the blue so to speak and they instantly die.

By the letter of this verse they are not saved are they now.


But of course God knows the heart , so therefore the true answer is believe and receive .
This of course does require the sincere desire as well as the faith and of course the faith itself comes from God .
Even the very revelation of it's truth comes from God .

 

[Sam91]

The other guy (a thief or something) on the cross next to Jesus got saved. He went to heaven with Jesus after only confessing with his mouth what he believed in his heart

 

[Bob Carabbio]

What do you believe are the minimal requirements for one to be considered a Christian and to recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

It seems to me that one has to publicly declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, they have to confess their sins, and they have to be baptized in the name of Lord Jesus to even start to be considered a Christian and receive the Divine benefits. But are there other things that absolutely have to be done for one to be considered a Christian and to receive the Divine benefits promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

To me if one has publicly declared Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, has confessed their sins to Lord Jesus and asked for forgiveness, and has been baptized, then they are a Christian. From there I am not sure where things go. It seems to me that as long as you do not sin against the Holy Spirit and that you are not bullheadedly willful about your sins that everything can eventually be worked out so that one can/will recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those who declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior.

What do you believe about what minimally needs to be done to be considered a Christian and to recieve the benefits that are promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

 

[-57]

What do you believe are the minimal requirements for one to be considered a Christian and to recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

It seems to me that one has to publicly declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, they have to confess their sins, and they have to be baptized in the name of Lord Jesus to even start to be considered a Christian and receive the Divine benefits. But are there other things that absolutely have to be done for one to be considered a Christian and to receive the Divine benefits promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

To me if one has publicly declared Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, has confessed their sins to Lord Jesus and asked for forgiveness, and has been baptized, then they are a Christian. From there I am not sure where things go. It seems to me that as long as you do not sin against the Holy Spirit and that you are not bullheadedly willful about your sins that everything can eventually be worked out so that one can/will recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those who declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior.

What do you believe about what minimally needs to be done to be considered a Christian and to recieve the benefits that are promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

One thing for sure is that water baptism isn't a requirement.

To be a christian the following must have occurred:
The bible says...no one understands; no one seeks for God Romans 3:11.

Jesus choose us...we don't choose Him. John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

God must draw us....John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Faith and grace are a gift....Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

The Father must grant you the ability to come to Jesus....John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

God must give you to Christ....John 6:65 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never turn away.

 

[mark kennedy]

What do you believe are the minimal requirements for one to be considered a Christian and to recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

It seems to me that one has to publicly declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, they have to confess their sins, and they have to be baptized in the name of Lord Jesus to even start to be considered a Christian and receive the Divine benefits. But are there other things that absolutely have to be done for one to be considered a Christian and to receive the Divine benefits promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

To me if one has publicly declared Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, has confessed their sins to Lord Jesus and asked for forgiveness, and has been baptized, then they are a Christian. From there I am not sure where things go. It seems to me that as long as you do not sin against the Holy Spirit and that you are not bullheadedly about your sins that everything can eventually be worked out so that one can/will recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those who declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior.

What do you believe about what minimally needs to be done to be considered a Christian and to recieve the benefits that are promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

You have to be the righteousness of God in Christ, God must literally impart the divine nature to you, a manifestation of the Holy Spirit Jesus called being born again. True repentance, saving faith sanctification bearing fruit, ministry, all are gifts of grace. If Adam never sinned righteousness would have been by Grace which God bestows for His glory. The opposite is something called perdition, a permanent disposition to sin and amenity tword God forever. You have probably met people in that condition, they seem to have an attraction to religion. Judas was a child of perdition, Jesus knew that when he called him to be an apostle. Jesus washed this man's feet, and he gets up and sells him to his enemies. The scribes and Pharasees Jesus called children of their father the devil in John 8. Elsewhere believers are described as being born of incoruptable seen. Paul often describes it as dead to sin and raised to serve in righteuosness, Romans 6 thru 8 describes this in explicit and dramatic fashion. Ephesions the first chapter describes salvation in such a way that most commentators describe as a hymn of praise.

What must I do to be saved? The Philipian jail or asked Paul that question and Paul replied believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you and your whole household. When Paul writes the letter to the Philipians it was delivered to this man's home and read to the church that meet in his home. When the rich young ruler asked, Jesus perceiving the he was covetious said well all you have and follow me. He went away sad because he was very wealthy, The real problem was he had an insatiable appetite for more. The Lord explains to Peter it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to enter heaven. Ok the apostle asks perhaps anxious and startled by now, who can be saved? With man this is impossible with Go's all things are possible.

What are the minimum requirements. The bare minimum is nothing less then the unblemished divine perfection of the Lied Jesus Christ, in the power of the Holy Spirit, according to the perfect will of the Father. Sound like a tall orde, insurmountable, inconceivable, impossible? That's because it is apart from Christ.

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. The unpardonable sin committed be Jesus' enemies is a sin only the children of perdition can commit. How you know your saved is through the Holy Spirit we are told we are the children of God. Then and only then do we have what we Calvinists call eternal security. Once you have it you become the rightiouness of God in Christ even though you have unreserved earthly bodies till the redemption of the purchse price.

Believe and you must be born again.

Grace and peace.
Mark

 

[mark kennedy]

Repentance, Baptism, and accepting Christ as Lord (as defined in the Nicene Creed)

One more important thing that's difficult to use as a checklist item is to take practical action to nurture that faith which should:

• Motivate desire for repentance
• Reflect on the significance of baptism
• Commit and recommit to following Christ in practice

The requirement of baptism always leads me to wonder about the thief on the cross. He repented and Christ received him. Don't get me wrong I understand baptism is required but the death burial and resurrection required is only symbolized in the ceremony, the substance is found in Christ.

 

[Deadworm]

Most posters on this thread seem to confuse "minimal" requirements with faith in the essentials of the Gospel. Sam's reference to the Paradise-bound thief on the cross is instructive here. There is no reason to believe that this thief knows Jesus' teaching in any detail, let alone the Gospel. All he does is admit guilt and ask Jesus to "remember" him when Jesus enters His kingdom. Thus, the thief satisfies the elusive minimum condition for salvation.

A similar extreme, but relevant example is Karl [Mar]x's example of the paralyzed deaf mute who embraces Christ shortly before he dies in an accident before having a chance to confess or clarify his new beliefs.

Such examples could be multiplied. What about the more common cases of people with a low I.Q. who are regular church attenders, would not dispute any of "the 4 spiritual laws," but lack the cognitive ability to articulate Gospel basics? Or what about the mentally ill? In such cases, I think we need to say that God knows the heart and therefore knows what spiritual choices these poor souls would have made, if they had the opportunity and cognitive ability. So does the minimal requirement boil down to this: the unseen regenerating work of the Spirit, which may not be limited by conventional basic doctrinal affirmation?

 

[ShaulHaTarsi]

The requirement of baptism always leads me to wonder about the thief on the cross. He repented and Christ received him. Don't get me wrong I understand baptism is required but the death burial and resurrection required is only symbolized in the ceremony, the substance is found in Christ.

Just because the thief repented does not necessarily mean he became a Christian as we would understand it. This does not mean to say he was not received by Christ and was not saved.

While some branches of Christianity may believe that Baptism lacks some kind of effectual strength, nearly all of them believe that it is one of the normative signs to make someone a Christian as is understood by ... Christians.

Most posters on this thread seem to confuse "minimal" requirements with faith in the essentials of the Gospel. Sam's reference to the Paradise-bound thief on the cross is instructive here. There is no reason to believe that this thief knows Jesus' teaching in any detail, let alone the Gospel. All he does is admit guilt and ask Jesus to "remember" him when Jesus enters His kingdom. Thus, the thief satisfies the elusive minimum condition for salvation.

We are not Christ nor are we the Holy Spirit. We can but lay out some basic principles on what the requirements, as we perceive it, to be a Christian. This does not mean that these requirements are laws set in stone nor should they be benchmarks by which to measure people on an individual basis, but they are certainly sufficient in determining (when one needs to make such a determination) whether one is a "Christian" or not. There are plenty of counter examples of people who are meeting these requirements or may otherwise attempt to have purely intellectual faith and would be greeted by an "I never knew you! Depart from me!" while those who did not meet the checklist may still be welcome and accepted into paradise.

 

[1213]

Don't you think that most of the people who hold different understandings of the words Jesus spoke here or there do so to the best of their ability and sincerely think that theirs is the correct interpretation?...

The problem in this is, in my opinion, the interpretation. I don’t think it is needed to make own interpretations, but let Jesus explain what he means in the Bible. Similarly, as when you speak, I don’t make interpretations, I listen what you say and try to understand it as you say it.

 

[Winken]

What do you believe are the minimal requirements for one to be considered a Christian and to recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

It seems to me that one has to publicly declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, they have to confess their sins, and they have to be baptized in the name of Lord Jesus to even start to be considered a Christian and receive the Divine benefits. But are there other things that absolutely have to be done for one to be considered a Christian and to receive the Divine benefits promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

To me if one has publicly declared Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior, has confessed their sins to Lord Jesus and asked for forgiveness, and has been baptized, then they are a Christian. From there I am not sure where things go. It seems to me that as long as you do not sin against the Holy Spirit and that you are not bullheadedly willful about your sins that everything can eventually be worked out so that one can/will recieve the Divine benefits that are promised to those who declare Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior.

What do you believe about what minimally needs to be done to be considered a Christian and to recieve the benefits that are promised to those that call Lord Jesus their Lord and Savior?

Romans 10:8-13
Romans 8:1 ("walk" is not conditional. It is a statement of present, continuous standing before our Lord. That never changes. The "walk" of the Spiritually birthed Christian is firm forever).