Michigan Anti-Evolution Bill

[samiam]

ID makes perfect sense. It sure makes more sense than the religious fairy tales evolution tells. I am glad to see this and I hope more states follow the same.

OK, I've looked at your profile; you are pretty new around here so I will explain some things to you.

First of all, while there are a number of non-Christians who post here, there are also a number of Christians who post here, such as Lucaspa and myself. This is an "open debate", so non-Christians are perfectly welcome here; Erwin also has a Christians-only discussion board which discusses the same topic.

Second of all, I seriously doubt that you have had a balanced education concerning evolution. Your knowledge of evolution probably only stems from "facts" your conservative church has told which supposibly "refute" evolution. You probably are in the misguided position that these "facts" will convince any scientists that evolution is a load of bollucks.

Unfortunatly, it is not that way. The things you have heard at your church group or have read on TV which supposibly debunk evolution? Well, we have heard them too, all too many times, and we have very solid refutations to whatever you can dredge up. Which we have posted here. Over and over again.

Do not think you will win any kind of serious debate against evolution here. You will not. Debating against evolution is like debating that the earth is flat (something the Bible also states) or that the sun rotates around the earth (also stated by the Bible). And yes, previous generations of Christians refused to belive in a round earth nor in a sun that goes around the earth, because of how they interpreted scripture.

I don't want you to have a crisis of faith here, so I will explain to you that a number of Christians do both have a strong faith in God, and believe in evolution. I assure you: Evolution does not, in any way, weaken one's faith in God if their faith is truly on a strong foundation.

Can you believe in a evolution and still believe in God? It is very important that you ask this question before you start debating here.

I see no point in trying to debunk what you are saying; it has been throughly debunked before here about a zillion times here and will be undoubtably debunked again by some of the other regulars.

If you are open-minded to the existance of evolution, I can demonstrate some strong scientific arguments for it. If not, I will not waste my time. The kind of scientific thinking required to understand evolution takes a lot of mental effort, and can not be done at all if one has a denial mechanism in place which makes them refuse to accept evolution.

- Sam

 

[goat37]

ID makes perfect sense. It sure makes more sense than the religious fairy tales evolution tells. I am glad to see this and I hope more states follow the same.

Also ID does not make perfect sense, because as other threads have posted (some from me), that ask why then would an intelligent designer create birds with the proper genes to create teeth, and humans with a tail.

And in order for the entire theory of creationism to work, you would need to be a YEC. The earth is NOT 6000 years old, it is 4.5 billion. If you accept that the earth is 4.5 billion then history would tell you that 250 million years ago neither mammals nor birds existed, and thus birds must have come from non-birds, and mammals must have come from non-mammals.

 

[goodseedhomeschool]

If God wants to create birds with teeth it is His choice I am sure.
If you want to know how old the earth is, do the geneology in Genesis. It really is not hard to do.
Evolution (man from molecules) takes a lot of faith to believe since there is no evidence to back it up.

 

[samiam]

Please read my reply to one of your other postings.

 

[goat37]

If God wants to create birds with teeth it is His choice I am sure.
If you want to know how old the earth is, do the geneology in Genesis. It really is not hard to do.
Evolution (man from molecules) takes a lot of faith to believe since there is no evidence to back it up.

No evidence? Are you referring to micro-evolution or macro-evolution...

and even if there wasn't any evidence (which there is), you still have no evidence to back up your claim.

If you want to do some honest research, and not just spew out from what you hear from a few fundamentalists, I suggest you go to http://www.talkorigins.org/ and look for yourself.

You're not even worth debating because you obviously don't even know what it is you are trying to discredit.

 

[goodseedhomeschool]

I do not have to win any debate at all. The real question here is: When did you (if you ever had it) loose your faith in God? Your picture shows a very young man, fresh out of secular school no doubt who has been indoctrinated by the best religionists the government has to offer.
If you are here as a Christian, I can only say to you, "Man cannot serve two masters".
Evolution is the religion for men who want no accountability.
If you really want to know how the world and all that is in it came to be, sit down with your Bible and let God tell you.
If you are here to argue, I won't waste time because this is really useless. If you already have your worldview, then now, you are just trying to convince others.
100 years from now evolution will be laughed at moreso than the flat earth theory. LOL I'm laughing now. Guess I'm ahead of my time.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

If you want to know how old the earth is, do the geneology in Genesis. It really is not hard to do.

Then why does that interpretation not jive with reality?

There are many completely independent lines of evidence indicating a very old age for the earth. Those determinations are based upon examining the earth itself rather than an unsubstantiated religious text.

 

[the_malevolent_milk_man]

I graduated from HS in a very conservative town. I took a biology AP course and passed the AP test being the first from my school to ever have passed it. /bow

I remember when we started discussing evolution my teacher said "The suits asked me to cover creationism at the same time as evolution. Their "theory" (made air quotes) is that God created everything, any questions?" class, all 2 of us, laughed. "Ok, then moving on!". Our science department is really weak, less than 10% of the students sign up for advanced chemistry, biology, or physics =( Not weak as in bad, had some great teachers, but just nobody has any interest in it.

 

[goodseedhomeschool]

First of all talk origins is the most pathetic anti God site on the net.
Second. YOu know "micro-evolution" is not the issue. There are obvious variations within species. Never ever ever though has macro, cosmic, stellar, etc. evolution been observed.
Many false claims such as "human gill slits", "Most missing links", are still being taught in school textbooks. Why, I don't know. Perhaps because if it were eliminated, the kids would not be so easily brainwashed, who knows.
Variation within species is not evolution.
This word gets so easily used that it needs to be revised.

 

[Arthur Dietrich]

*raises a tentative hand*

Last I checked Evolution wasn't a religion and had nothing to do with how the universe was created, just the diversity of species. Has this changed?

 

[goodseedhomeschool]

to mechanical bliss
LOL you are funny.
God's word always "jives" with reality.
Evolution never jives.
So you believe you came from a rock I see.
Hummmm reality???

 

[Cantuar]

ID makes perfect sense.

That's a personal opinion. It makes no sense whatever to me except as a piece of politics masquerading as science.

It sure makes more sense than the religious fairy tales evolution tells.

Oh, please, not that piece of creationist rubbish again. The whole point of scientific theories is that they don't depend on recourse to fairy tales.

I am glad to see this and I hope more states follow the same.

You want to see children graduate from school being scientifically illiterate? Have you been reading recent news reports about IT and engineering jobs being moved from here to India? Did you know that fewer than 10% of US degrees are in science and engineering and something like half of Indian degrees are in those subjects? Did you know that a couple of years ago every PhD student in physics at one of the Ivy League universities was foreign born and educated? And I assume you think this is just some piece of gross unfairness perpetrated by the liberal left or something. Well, it isn't. A lot of it has to do with the relatively low standard of maths and science education over here compared with a lot of western Europe and East Asia. How many more high-tech jobs and academic scientists do you want to see leave the country?

 

[goodseedhomeschool]

Evolution is THE religion being taught in public schools across America. It is the biggest faith based system of this century.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

First of all talk origins is the most pathetic anti God site on the net.

False. Talkorigins is not an anti-God site.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-god.html

Never ever ever though has macro, cosmic, stellar, etc. evolution been observed.

False. Moreover, you are misrepresenting the theory of evolution as a strawman just like nonscientist Hovind does. You came here from "Dr." Dino's site, didn't you?

"Most missing links", are still being taught in school textbooks.

False. Show me a recently published textbook that contains hoaxes and deliberately passes them off as evidence for evolutionary biology and then we might take you seriously.

Perhaps because if it were eliminated, the kids would not be so easily brainwashed, who knows.

The ones who have been indoctrinated and lied to are the creationists--especially if they read "Dr." Dino as if it's the Bible.

Variation within species is not evolution.

Technically, yes, it is. What is your educational background with respect to evolutionary biology? My guess is it's not much.

 

[goodseedhomeschool]

Who are you people.
Eugenie Scott clones, here to keep the faith alive?
Why do you come to a Christian website?
I will leave you folks to your religion in that I see Christians here are only made fun of and bashed.
I pray you folks are not the moderators here. If so, I can see why the world is in such a mess.

 

[samiam]

I do not have to win any debate at all. The real question here is: When did you (if you ever had it) loose your faith in God?

OK, I can see why you can not accept evolution; you believe the big lie that one can not both believe in God and evolution. You do not want to listen; you want to argue here.

I am sad that you had a need to respond to a honest attempt to talk to you with confrontational language; I am sorry that you are not open-minded enough to accept that one can both be a Christian and accept the theory of evolution.

I do not waste my time with people who do not want to listen; I will ignore you from now on.

You want an argument here? You will get one. And you will lose it.

- Sam

 

[Cantuar]

Evolution is the religion for men who want no accountability.

Are you even reading what other people write? There are Christians on this site and other sites and in labs the world over who accept evolution, cosmology, and all the rest of science. It is a logical impossibility for the majority of Christians to be atheists. So either evolution isn't atheistic or creationists are the only Christians.

Are you ready to tell your fellow Christians on this board that they're really atheists?

 

[goat37]

First of all talk origins is the most pathetic anti God site on the net.
Second. YOu know "micro-evolution" is not the issue. There are obvious variations within species. Never ever ever though has macro, cosmic, stellar, etc. evolution been observed.
Many false claims such as "human gill slits", "Most missing links", are still being taught in school textbooks. Why, I don't know. Perhaps because if it were eliminated, the kids would not be so easily brainwashed, who knows.
Variation within species is not evolution.
This word gets so easily used that it needs to be revised.

You do realize that macro-evolution is just micro-evolution extended over a longer period of time, right?

With our short lifespans, you cannot expect to see a full evolution from one species to the next with our own eyes, which is why we look to the past through fossils and such.

And to boot, no one ever said that the theory of evolution is complete, it is still a relatively new idea and needs further research and scrutiny.

So tell me, where did birds come from then, if not from non-birds over 250 million years ago?

You are doing a horrible job at debunking evolution, this is because you obviously don't even know what it truly is.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

to mechanical bliss
LOL you are funny.
God's word always "jives" with reality.

Then why does the evidence indicate that the earth is much older than 6,000 years and that a global flood never happened?

I see you didn't actually address what I posted but rather tried to divert and try to be mocking.

Evolution never jives.

It jives with the evidence perfectly. It just doesn't jive with your interpretation of your religious text. That's your basis for rejection, not reality.

So you believe you came from a rock I see.
Hummmm reality???

Strawman.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

Evolution is THE religion being taught in public schools across America. It is the biggest faith based system of this century.

It's not a religion or faith based by definition. Since evolutionary biology is substantiated by evidence and faith is belief without evidence, evolutionary biology is not faith based.