Michael Jackson just died. How do you feel?

[*Starlight*]

Being accused is still nothing to be proud of, correct?


I didn't imply guilt. I implied nothing. I overtly stated that he shouldn't be proud of the two facts I listed. Should I be proud if I get accused of molesting kids? Should you if you work with kids? No.

In the same way as you shouldn't be proud of, for example, having dark (or light) hair. It's just totally irrelevant.

 

[Nadiine]

Being accused is still nothing to be proud of, correct?

Not sure what you're trying to convey by that?
My husband's friend's son got falsely accused of rape -
it finally came out that she was at a party and had sex w/
2 guys, and she tried to cover it up w/ that false story.
She later admitted it was bogus.

People are helpless to false accusations; esp. people with
deep pockets. & we'll never know this side of eternity if he was guilty or not.

To the OP -
I went thru mourning this weekend over losing him.
I watched the tv nonstop for all the MJ coverage - just devestated.
(I know others were sick of it, but when you're so shocked, it's all
you want to see in some ways).

He's an icon to my generation - a pioneer of music in our time.
HUGE loss no matter what his eccentricities.

I think alot of the sadness society feels (other than losing someone so
pivitol in music and video) is that so many discarded him and there's
an underlying guilt attached to this as MJ just spiralled downward
and nobody really cared or worse, mocked him thru it all.

Yes, due to his bad choices in problems that he created which caused
further isolation and financial ruin - but this is quite common with creative talents.
There seems to be a connection w/ eccentricity and 'strangeness'
with true creative genius. (nevermind is horrific childhood which I believe caused
some of his serious hangups and inability to communicate w/ others on a normal level).

On specials this weekend, I was relieved to see that he did recieve good counsel
earlier on before he got so much worse from people who truly had his best interests at heart, but they claim he's a narcicist and what I know of narcicism (knowing 2 people personally who have that), they do not listen to counsel very well at all and reject most all correction.

I'm deeply sad over this, it's taught me alot personally about
judging celebrity and how we treat them in general when they're
in a downward spiral.
We feel vindicated to attack & mock them if they're "bad enough" or
wierd enough, etc.

I have always prayed for them and do care about them personally;
they are human beings like anyone else. For some reason, we
seem to ignore that they're lost and need a Saviour just as badly
as everyone else.

*One in need of heavy prayer right now is Patrick Swayze*

 

[Nadiine]

one of his best songs imho - and the words mean more now than
I would of thought

YouTube - Michael Jackson - Will You Be There

 

[Tissue]

I didn't imply guilt. I implied nothing. I overtly stated that he shouldn't be proud of the two facts I listed. Should I be proud if I get accused of molesting kids? Should you if you work with kids? No.

You did imply guilt, even if you did not mean to.

I'm quite aware of what I write and I'm also quite aware that a number of people will have a tendency to read too much into what I write, no matter how I phrase it. So I'd much rather address it with those who do that when it happens than try to preclude every single post to make it idiot proof (so to speak). I'm not about appearances, I'm about content. If people can't see past appearances enough to look at content, discussion with them is not worth my time because I'm obviously not worth their time.

This displays a general ignorance about the nature of communications and linguistics. You can't blame people if you aren't more aware of how your post will be interpreted. As Starlight noted, I am not the only one who found your post to express something different than what you are now saying.

The fault is your own.

 

[AngelusSax]

Conversion to what!? Jackson had already tried Christianity, then dabbled in Kabbalah mysticism, and finally Islam. What next? Hinduism?

You may limit what God can do and when He can do it by claiming there's no possible way MJ could have become Christian in his final millisecond. I limit God in no such way. With God, ALL THINGS are possible, including final-millisecond conversions of people who once were Christian and then quit it for something else.

It seems if God had your standards, you'd go to heaven, and anyone else wouldn't unless they told you, personally, they were a Christian for the last 30 years...

Personally, I do think MJ was a less-than-stellar guy. I think it is entirely possible he died without salvation, but I also believe it's God's job to be God, not ours. For anyone to claim to know, 100%, that he is in hell, is to claim, in essence, to be God in their own mind.

That's not a blasphemy I am comfortable or stupid enough to commit.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Michael Jackson left behind an incredible legacy in pop music, but in Hell, he's just another skull amongst the millions and millions and millions of souls that preceded him.

†. Isa 14:13-16 . .You said in your heart: I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High. But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit. Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate.

What might Jackson's fellow inmates be pondering? Simple. They are no doubt thinking to themselves: "You are one of us now. What you accomplished on earth, and the accolades you accumulated, mean nothing to anybody down here. We understand you were honored at the recent BET awards, but trust us: neither your moon walk, nor that BET honor, will suffice to relieve your suffering, nor remedy your current circumstances in the slightest."

†. Luke 16:19-26 . .There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

. .The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In haides, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him: "Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire."

. . But Abraham replied: "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us."

Jackson was in the midst of preparing for a 50-concert world tour when he died. What might Christ have to say about that?

†. Luke 12:16-21 . . And he told them this parable: The ground of a certain rich man produced a good crop. He thought to himself: What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops. Then he said: This is what I'll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I'll say to myself: You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.

. . But God said to him: You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself? This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

 

[AngelusSax]

You might be right. You might not be. If you're not, and you've been judging this harshly, how harshly will you be judged when your time comes? And not by humans, but by God?

I'd hate to hear "Well, sorry, but you judged harshly without actual knowledge of what went on in other people's lives just before their death, consigning them to hell. Your judgement shall then be proportionate from me, and your consignment is what you consigned to others."

Unless Jesus really didn't mean that when you judge, you will be judged in the same measure... But I don't feel like chancing that.

When our time comes, and provided God's mercy on us is indeed undeservedly rich and we enter paradise, we're gonna be surprised at who is there... and who is not, possibly.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
RE: That's not a blasphemy I am comfortable or stupid enough to commit.

I seriously question whether you are capable of distinguishing a blasphemy from a chamois.

Some of you people are not only failing to utilize your professed beliefs to determine Jackson's afterlife destination, but worse; you're displaying a shameful lack of trust in the Bible's Christ as a certified representative of the Bible's God.

†. John 3:31-32 . . He has come from above and is greater than anyone else . . He tells what he has seen and heard, but how few believe what he tells them!

†. John 8:26 . .He that sent me is real; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him.

†. John 12:48-50 . . For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commission, what I should say, and what I should speak . . whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

For God's sake, use your heads, if not your beliefs. Jackson started out with Christianity, then later dabbled in Kabbalah mysticism, then finally settled on Islam. That last step alone was a seriously fatal move as the Bible's Jesus testified that salvation is not of the Arabs, but rather, of the Jews (John 4:22) . The old saw "three strikes and you're out" certainly applies to Mr. King of Pop.

Christians who consider themselves too pious to judge the fate of an obvious unbeliever like Michael Jackson demonstrate a lack of belief in their own beliefs and openly disparage the validity of the expert testimony of the very Christ whom they profess to follow.

†. John 3:36 . .Whoever relies upon the Son has eternal life, but whoever disbelieves the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

†. John 3:18 . .Whoever relies upon him is not condemned, but whoever disbelieves stands condemned already because he has not trusted in the name of God's one and only Son.

People who refuse to utilize Christ's expert testimony to judge the destination of an unbeliever are openly insinuating that the Bible's God whom Christ represents is a dishonest person of low ethical integrity who cannot be trusted to tell the truth.

†. 1John 5:9-10 . .We accept human testimony; but God's testimony carries more weight because it's the testimony of God, which He has given about His son. . . Everyone who does not believe God makes Him a liar, because he hasn't believed the testimony God has given about His son.

What I am seeing on this message board is a shameful lack of integrity. People believing themselves to be believers would rather depreciate God's reputation than rely upon Christ's testimony that unbelievers stand condemned to Hell even before they pass on.

†. John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever disbelieves stands condemned already.

†. Mark 16:15-16 . . He said to them: Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to everyone, everywhere. Whoever believes and is baptized will be spared, but whoever disbelieves will be damned.

C.L.I.F.F.
/

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Better feel patient and careful, for judging a man that you only know through the disobedient and faithless media will anger God. Meet Michael Jackson through his old friends. They will speak of him as he was. You will indeed anger God, if this man was a good man and yet poorly treated by others and yourself. Don't follow gossips, but seek out the truth before speaking. Peace comes from knowing and not the entanglements of juicy gossips.

 

[AngelusSax]

Some of you people are not only failing to utilize your professed beliefs to determine Jackson's afterlife destination, but worse; you're displaying a shameful lack of trust in the Bible's Christ as a certified representative of the Bible's God.

I trust you were looking in a mirror when you said that so the statement would be true.

I seriously question whether you are capable of distinguishing a blasphemy from a chamois

You have clearly set yourself up to be God. That is a blasphemy.

It is for God to judge, not us. It's fine to say where you THINK someone went, but when you claim to know for certain, then you claim to know their hearts and minds intimately in that final second, and you claim to know and speak for God in a way reserved for God alone.

Let God be God, and have your opinions, but don't think your opinions are absolute fact. That is what one does to set themselves up as their own god, replacing the true God for their own idolatrous selves.

I trust you've not done this intentionally. But it's still what has apparently happened. But then, that's just my opinion based on your posts, but I don't truly know for sure. (At least I'm consistent, and not stating to know for a fact you are your own God, thus judging you in a way that would be beyond my station to judge).

John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever disbelieves stands condemned already.

Yes, and what about the verses that surround that one? The one where Jesus came to save the entire world, and came not to condemn but to save? Feel free to continue to proof-text and ignore the overall passages if it helps you judge other people's salvation as if you are God though.

 

[Poverello78]

Double-post, and I don't know how to remove posts.

 

[Poverello78]

As of yesterday, I have it on good authority that Michael Jackson was regularly meeting with Pastor Andre Crouch before his death. He'd been "asking how he could make his music more spiritual" (the words I was told).

At some point, Pastor Crouch apparently felt MJ didn't have long to live and released a note asking his church and others to pray for him. I don't have a lot of details, obviously, but my family is very good friends with Andre Crouch, so I have every reason to believe it.

 

[Nadiine]

Conversion to what!? Jackson had already tried Christianity, then dabbled in Kabbalah mysticism, and finally Islam. What next? Hinduism?

I don't know who posted this, but to any Christian, that's the
obvious sign of someone seeking for spiritual help; from God who is
greater than all of us.
I don't know the context this was given in, but any Christian knows
not to attack someone for that, but to PRAY FOR THEM thru that
to seek the true and living God.
What do we expect from the unsaved who have a spiritual nature?
We're made to commune spiritually w/ God.

By the way, I don't know anything about previous Christianity -
I do know that he was a Jehovah Witness for quite a few years.

His grieving family needs our prayers today too.
YouTube - Janet Jackson BET Awards 6/28/09 Michael Jackson Tribute (HQ)

 

[Webers_Home]

.
RE: I do know that he was a Jehovah Witness for quite a few years.

Jackson was raised a Jehovah's Witness by his mother. Let me clue everybody into a couple of salient features of WatchTower Society theology.

1) Jesus testified in John 3:3-11 that nobody is getting into the kingdom of God sans a second birth performed by God's Spirit. According to the WatchTower Society, only a maximum of 144,000 Witnesses will ever be born again. Rank and file Witnesses-- the hewers of wood and the haulers of water --are denied a Spirit birth and taught never to expect to be born again: never; not in this life, nor in the next.

2) Only the 144,000 Spirit-born Witnesses have direct access to the New Testament's Christ as their personal advocate/mediator in Heaven as per 1John 2:1. Rank and file Witnesses are permitted indirect access to Christ via their membership in the Society. When a Witness is excommunicated, and/or terminates their membership, they forfeit access to Christ as an advocate/mediator in Heaven.

That is the only kind of Christianity that Jackson ever believed and practiced. He never switched over to mainstream Christianity; but went from the WatchTower Society to Kaballah mysticism and ultimately took an interest in his brother Jermaine's religion: Islam. His association with non-Witness Christians and pastors, and his request for prayers, were little more than patronizing bombast. Jackson was a crowd pleaser, what do you expect?

C.L.I.F.F.
/

 

[2ndRateMind]

Any commentary on how we ought to regard this death? A loss? A judgment of God? A meaningless cessation of the movement of matter?

I'm curious as to how you all feel about the death of a person such as this.

Frankly, unmoved. We all die sometime, and the end of this particular vulgar entertainer moves me even less then than the modicum it seems to move his family - whatever their media orchestrated protestations elsewise. I cannot see that the death of a self-absorbed rich man, who doesn't feed the hungry, is any loss to the progress of humanity.

Best, 2RM.

 

[Nadiine]

Frankly, unmoved. We all die sometime, and the end of this particular vulgar entertainer moves me even less then than the modicum it seems to move his family - whatever their media orchestrated protestations elsewise. I cannot see that a rich man, who doesn't feed the hungry, is any loss to the progress of humanity.

Best, 2RM.

I suppose you've done MORE than MJ for humanitarian purposes?

We all know he's given mega amounts of time, energy, love and
money for kids causes and individual people in need.
And nobody matters unless they've contributed enough to "the progress
of humanity"? Is this some personal standard you set to decide who's worth caring about?

This level of callousness is amazing but I've learned over time that
you can't shame people to care.
We don't have to embrace vulgarity, but we do have to care
about people and esp. their families.
Death may be no big deal to you, but I assure you it is a very big
deal for their own eternal state and the kids and families they leave
behind.

 

[Poverello78]

I cannot see that the death of a self-absorbed rich man, who doesn't feed the hungry, is any loss to the progress of humanity.

He was in the Guinness Book of World Records in 2000 for supporting more charities than any other pop star.

 

[Nadiine]

He was in the Guinness Book of World Records in 2000 for supporting more charities than any other pop star.

apparently that doesn't count?
Hopefully this was just a case of ignorance.

 

[Zebra1552]

You did imply guilt, even if you did not mean to.



This displays a general ignorance about the nature of communications and linguistics. You can't blame people if you aren't more aware of how your post will be interpreted. As Starlight noted, I am not the only one who found your post to express something different than what you are now saying.

The fault is your own.

Congratulations on your appeal to popularity. You win -5 points.

 

[Zebra1552]

Not sure what you're trying to convey by that?
My husband's friend's son got falsely accused of rape -
it finally came out that she was at a party and had sex w/
2 guys, and she tried to cover it up w/ that false story.
She later admitted it was bogus.

People are helpless to false accusations; esp. people with
deep pockets. & we'll never know this side of eternity if he was guilty or not.

I'm saying the man is no different or special just because he was a pop icon, he was a human being just like you or I. There is no sense getting worked up about his death any more than anyone else. Do we see threads like this in CP&E talking about suicide bombings or earthquakes? No. The first will be last and the last will be first. We would do well to remember this and actually live it out.