Messianic Judaism

[Heber]

So what you are saying is that Christians don't convert to Messianics. They just adopt a different way of thinking?

This is precisely the situation. You now follow the same G_d but you see him in a different light than that which most Christians see.

I think Yedida and ChavaK have answered the question I raised about conversion. Hopefully you see the point I was making now?

Thanks guys - while I've been asleep you've done grand work!

I still wonder why you said that you will not speak of your Baptism?

 

[yedida]

This is precisely the situation. You now follow the same G_d but you see him in a different light than that which most Christians see.

I think Yedida and ChavaK have answered the question I raised about conversion. Hopefully you see the point I was making now?

Thanks guys - while I've been asleep you've done grand work!

I still wonder why you said that you will not speak of your Baptism?

A baptism can be an extremely personal thing. Considering we have presented her with a new thing to think about (conversion or no conversion) and it sounds like she's understanding and re-thinking it all out, maybe it's best to let the baptism thing drop for now. After all, even though we're family, we're members she's just met.
When she feels more comfortable around us perhaps then she'll share her experience with us.

 

[Heber]

A baptism can be an extremely personal thing. Considering we have presented her with a new thing to think about (conversion or no conversion) and it sounds like she's understanding and re-thinking it all out, maybe it's best to let the baptism thing drop for now. After all, even though we're family, we're members she's just met.
When she feels more comfortable around us perhaps then she'll share her experience with us.

I'll not pursue it, it's just that it appeared with some emphasis, first, that I wondered why she mentioned it in a whole paragraph but says she will not recount it? Odd.

 

[yedida]

I'll not pursue it, it's just that it appeared with some emphasis, first, that I wondered why she mentioned it in a whole paragraph but says she will not recount it? Odd.

Well, truth be told, if I'd just met you guys only a few days ago, I doubt I'd feel completely comfortable telling you that my friend and I baptised each other in a heated swimming pool at 3am one summer morning. A lot of people could take exception to that, but you guys are family now and I feel totally at home with all of you. But that takes time, in person, and certainly online.

 

[ChavaK]

Originally Posted by Devri

So what you are saying is that Christians don't convert to Messianics. They just adopt a different way of thinking?​

I think something analogous would be a Reform Jew who becomes
Orthodox. They are not "converting", but changing their lifestyle
and way of thinking.

​

 

[yonah_mishael]

I think something analogous would be a Reform Jew who becomes
Orthodox. They are not "converting", but changing their lifestyle
and way of thinking.

Unless they're a convert to Reform, and then they have to convert again.

 

[yedida]

Unless they're a convert to Reform, and then they have to convert again.

Now whoever would have thought that? Certainly not a gentile (though thinking about it, I guess I can see where the Orthodox are coming from!!).
Thinking in those same lines, I would venture to guess that a lifetime baptist wanting to become RCC they would probably have to "convert" as well.

 

[Heber]

Unless they're a convert to Reform, and then they have to convert again.

But even that is not a true 'conversion' - it cannot be, by definition. It is a vastly different way of relating to G_d and fellow man, but it is not sufficient to be a conversion in the true sense of that word.

 

[pat34lee]

But even that is not a true 'conversion' - it cannot be, by definition. It is a vastly different way of relating to G_d and fellow man, but it is not sufficient to be a conversion in the true sense of that word.

Some messianics, and not just "sacred namers", consider that being baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit means just that. When they learn that they were baptised in false names, they want to be baptised again in the true names as close as they can manage. To many, its not about the pronunciation of the Hebrew names, just the fact that the other names were wrong.

 

[Heber]

Some messianics, and not just "sacred namers", consider that being baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit means just that. When they learn that they were baptised in false names, they want to be baptised again in the true names as close as they can manage. To many, its not about the pronunciation of the Hebrew names, just the fact that the other names were wrong.

I didn't comment on Baptism! I was speaking about conversion not the same thing.

 

[pat34lee]

I didn't comment on Baptism! I was speaking about conversion not the same thing.

My bad. I thought that conversion was brought up as a reason for rebaptism.

 

[ChavaK]

Unless they're a convert to Reform, and then they have to convert again.

Well, that's true. Wasn't thinking about converts though....

 

[ChavaK]

But even that is not a true 'conversion' - it cannot be, by definition. It is a vastly different way of relating to G_d and fellow man, but it is not sufficient to be a conversion in the true sense of that word.

But it is in that the Orthodox would not consider a Reform convert to be Jewish to begin with.
But I get your point that the person would not be going from religion A's beliefs to religion B's beliefs.

 

[Devri]

I think what is confusing is the term "conversion". How can a Christian
"convert" to being a Messianic if the basic tenets of the faith are the same?
Perhaps adapting a Messianic lifestyle is a better terminology.

I can't speak for any other Messianic but my thought processes and way of life have changed dramatically. In fact the salvation through Yeshua is really the only thing that remains the same.

I now observe the feasts and festivals, I observe and actively participate in Shabbat, I eat Kosher, and my personal appearance and lifestyle have changed. I do not observe the pegan holidays as Christians do, etc. So while the foundation of the Christians/Messianics is the same that's about it. For me, it has been a tremendous change or conversion if you will.

I'm not aware of how other Messianics live or their practices, only those of my synagogue and our Rabbi teaches us to observe Torah.

For me, conversion means adopt new principles and a new way of living. This is what I have done. The bible says for each man to work out his own salvation with fear and trembling...this act is my fear and trembling.

I don't give a rip about legalism. In fact that is a good portion of the reason I left the Christian faith. It's a personal relationship and so long as I don't commit a trespass and my relationship with Yehovah grows, I can't be doing any harm.

Just sayin'

 

[Heber]

I can't speak for any other Messianic but my thought processes and way of life have changed dramatically. In fact the salvation through Yeshua is really the only thing that remains the same.

I now observe the feasts and festivals, I observe and actively participate in Shabbat, I eat Kosher, and my personal appearance and lifestyle have changed. I do not observe the pegan holidays as Christians do, etc. So while the foundation of the Christians/Messianics is the same that's about it. For me, it has been a tremendous change or conversion if you will.

I'm not aware of how other Messianics live or their practices, only those of my synagogue and our Rabbi teaches us to observe Torah.

For me, conversion means adopt new principles and a new way of living. This is what I have done. The bible says for each man to work out his own salvation with fear and trembling...this act is my fear and trembling.

I don't give a rip about legalism. In fact that is a good portion of the reason I left the Christian faith. It's a personal relationship and so long as I don't commit a trespass and my relationship with Yehovah grows, I can't be doing any harm.

Just sayin'

That is precisely why it isn't conversion. You have not changed G_ds. All the rest is how you relate to G_d and he relates to you, but it is Yeshua - the same G_d (in simple terms, without getting too complicated).

 

[visionary]

I can't speak for any other Messianic but my thought processes and way of life have changed dramatically. In fact the salvation through Yeshua is really the only thing that remains the same.

I now observe the feasts and festivals, I observe and actively participate in Shabbat, I eat Kosher, and my personal appearance and lifestyle have changed. I do not observe the pegan holidays as Christians do, etc. So while the foundation of the Christians/Messianics is the same that's about it. For me, it has been a tremendous change or conversion if you will.

I'm not aware of how other Messianics live or their practices, only those of my synagogue and our Rabbi teaches us to observe Torah.

For me, conversion means adopt new principles and a new way of living. This is what I have done. The bible says for each man to work out his own salvation with fear and trembling...this act is my fear and trembling.

I don't give a rip about legalism. In fact that is a good portion of the reason I left the Christian faith. It's a personal relationship and so long as I don't commit a trespass and my relationship with Yehovah grows, I can't be doing any harm.

Just sayin'

I called it my transformation.. Every step is one step closer.

 

[ChavaK]

I called it my transformation..

Excellent word....much better than conversion, I think.

 

[cupid dave]

People I have seen posting on forums who desire to be Jewish but
can't give up Christianity. They don't understand these are two
entirely different religions and you can't become a Jew while
believing in Jesus.

Unless he was The Elijah?

He did the eucharust blessing with the elijah gobblet so we'd think about it?

 

[cupid dave]

Hesus? Please, please confirm that this was a typo!!

Yes it was...

Jesus is what I meant.

 

[visionary]

Unless he was The Elijah?

He did the eucharust blessing with the elijah gobblet so we'd think about it?

Now why would Yeshua do a pagan ritual with the elijah gobblet?