Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
OK I will.I realize that was a broad generalized statement (question). I'm speaking of your normative non Messianic Jew for the most part.
Yedida....have you considered that the obvious might in fact be true? That most MJ statements of faith sound Christian because they ARE Christian?
This is where I find this whole discussion absurd. A few here place far too much authority on their own opinions regarding what constitutes MJism.
If I want to asses MJism, I will go to the leadership- and the leadership have made Statements of Faith that adherents agree with. The vast majority of those SoF are unashamedly Christian, and furthermore Protestant in their core beliefs.
Sure, there are the fringe groups. These groups have few adherents and yet they still hold the core beliefs of Protestantism.
There are the few on this forum who essentially believe as those groups, but claim that they are "nothing like" Christians. This is just plain old baloney. There is something deeply disturbing to me to think that someone would be so desperate as to bury themselves into an identity that lives in denial of its own beliefs. (It is disturbing to me for people to bury themselves in religious identity anyway)
Not in my experience. I have been, spoken at, and helped guide more than one MJ group in the past. To me, they are basically Evangelical Christians with some Jewish heritage and symbols.
I realize of course there is a deep need on this forum by some to be "different", but that says more about them than MJism.
I think that a quick look at any mainstream MJ statement of Faith would pretty much bury the notion that there are few things in common between MJ groups and other Christian groups.
Let's stop waxing lyrical here and just stick with the facts: MJ statements of faith are essentially Christian.
Gentiles have ALWAYS BEEN WELCOME because the NT says so, there is no time when Gentiles were not allowed in any MJ congregation, ever. Not to mention that many MJ congregations were started with the help of, or by, Gentile Christians.
The gentiles may have been welcome but they were not treated as equal.
Perhaps it emanated from within the gentiles themselves but many places "appeared" to think of the gentile as second class citizens. I only recently quit sensing that where I'm at.
Once again, yes, it's there in Torah. It's about those who are unambiguously set up as leaders by God.
Self-proclaimed ministers (even those who have studied at Seminary) can only be accepted as put in place by God. It would be helpful if voices roared from heaven or mountains, or burning bushes, or if doves descended up them but that doesn't happen nowadays - we have only someone's statement and maybe a few PhDs or other credentials and those do not equate to someone being "God appointed, or annointed."
Those who are actually called by God have most aways been people that were not held in high regard.
Who told you that?
OK...I can understand the clique effect in churches. I've seen it myself, though not between Jew and Gentile. Usually between other sub sets of the congregation.
Those who are actually called by God have most aways been people that were not held in high regard.
In other words, you believe you cannot follow that commandment in the current day and age.
Once again, yes, it's there in Torah. It's about those who are unambiguously set up as leaders by God.
Self-proclaimed ministers (even those who have studied at Seminary) can only be accepted as put in place by God. It would be helpful if voices roared from heaven or mountains, or burning bushes, or if doves descended up them but that doesn't happen nowadays - we have only someone's statement and maybe a few PhDs or other credentials and those do not equate to someone being "God appointed, or annointed."
It doesn't even appear that the mainstream Christians observe the Noahide Laws. At least not the laws as I've seen them as set forth in B'nai Noach website.
My comments were not directed at you, Yedida, which I hope you realise. But even if I sent in my certificates - academic and ordination - I do not think for a moment that attitudes would change towards those who are leaders. That much was evident in the debate about the poll, which was a sham in my opinion.
Maybe it is because we have letters both before and after our names that people choose to be so downright rude - I don't know, best ask them, I guess.
I presume you mean:
Prohibition on immorality and forbidden sexual relations?
These Seven Universal Laws pertain to:
[bless and do not curse]
1) Avodah Zarah: Prohibition on idolatry.
2) Birchat HaShem: Prohibition on blasphemy and cursing the Name of G-d.
3) Shefichat Damim: Prohibition on murder.
4) Gezel: Prohibition on robbery and theft.
5) Gilui Arayot: Prohibition on immorality and forbidden sexual relations.
6) Ever Min HaChay: Prohibition on removing and eating a limb from a live animal.
7) Dinim: Requirement to establish a justice system and courts of law to enforce the other 6 laws.
It doesn't even appear that the mainstream Christians observe the Noahide Laws. At least not the laws as I've seen them as set forth in B'nai Noach website.
Hmmm...
Most of these laws seem to be observed:
These Seven Universal Laws pertain to:
[bless and do not curse]
1) Avodah Zarah: Prohibition on idolatry.
2) Birchat HaShem: Prohibition on blasphemy and cursing the Name of G-d.
3) Shefichat Damim: Prohibition on murder.
4) Gezel: Prohibition on robbery and theft.
5) Gilui Arayot: Prohibition on immorality and forbidden sexual relations.
6) Ever Min HaChay: Prohibition on removing and eating a limb from a live animal.
7) Dinim: Requirement to establish a justice system and courts of law to enforce the other 6 laws.
I presume you mean this Law:
Prohibition on immorality and forbidden sexual relations.
Abortions by Religious Affiliation:
Protestants: 37.4%
Catholics: 31.3%
Jews: 1.3 %
Non-religious/secular: 30.0 %
That's what I'm getting at. Here in the States it's so easy to be hoodwinked. I won't just blindly accept someone telling me that they are appointed, called, anointed to teach the gospel. There has to be something to back it up - what is it, since we no longer have the signs we find in the Bible?
We have the scriptures. If they are called, they will not only teach the scripture, they will live them (as well as any of us are able). See 1 John 4.
Do you believe that Binny Hinn is God-called? He appears to be living what mainstream teaches. Kenneth Copeland? Kenneth Hagen? Pat Robertson? Joel Osteen? Myers? Prince? According to what information is available, these all appear to live as mainstream teaches. Are these God-appointed? Was Oral Roberts? In the beginning Joseph Smith appeared to be living what mainstream teaches. Are these all God-called, appointed, anointed? What are your views?
Aaah, who could ignore you for long? You're our Lulav.
I could play the advocate and say yes, they are appointed, but not in the way most people think. I think our Father loves us, but wants our love for him to be real. And to 'prove' that (if you love me keep my commandments) He allow us to be tested by men such as those.
It doesn't take much in this day and age with all the instant info to place these and others side by side and see that they conflict with themselves, let alone with G-ds Torah.
Yes, but come tomorrow, don't shake me too hard!
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?