Can you write in non-enigmatic terms - that way we can be clear what you are actually saying? It will save a number of posts as we try and figure it out.
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Not in all cases.. God leads His people even out of Egypt.. even if that is where they were born and raised.
Christians and messianics are no more the same faith than Orthodox, Karaite, and Reform Jews and Sadducees are all the same. Just among Christians themselves, there are vast differences in how they view both the Father and the Messiah, and in how much of the bible they believe is real and what some believe is just morality stories and fables.
I was just on a Messianic website (Yedida's congregation) and it, like others I have read, look very similar to Christianity to me. The statement of faith and "what we believe" stuff is almost identical to something you'd find on a Protestant website. So to me they seem the same.
That Jews don't want to be associated with the word Christianity or Christian?
Yes, most MJ statements of faith do sound just like Christianity. I don't know if it's to not offend the "Christian" who may be looking them over or what their reasoning is. But MJ and mainstream/traditional Chrisitanity are as different as day is from night.
That could be a large part of it, but I think mostly the Jewish believers want to have a place where they can believe in Yeshua and hold onto their own Jewishness.
The MJ Gentiles could be disenchanted with the way mainstream has and is headed, it could be that God has opened up their eyes to the fact that Torah is alive and well and now want to be among others who believe the same thing and want to be where they can learn more.
For me, I was lead into it on my own (just the Bible and the Spirit at my side teaching me). For a year I tried to fit myself into a "church" setting, it didn't work.
We ought expect the two to be different because the Gentile Christians only need iobserve the Noachide Laws but for the Hebrew Christian not a tittle wilol be removed.
I guess it's the difference of watching and talking with a family as opposed to living with that family.Yedida, after looking over your congregations website and conversing with MJ's for a couple years I honestly have no idea how you see Christianity and MJ as different as day and night.
If they are that different why is there an MJ forum even here? Shouldn't you just be required to post in the World Religion section? If it isn't Christianity you shouldn't have your own forum.
Yedida, after looking over your congregations website and conversing with MJ's for a couple years I honestly have no idea how you see Christianity and MJ as different as day and night.
If they are that different why is there an MJ forum even here? Shouldn't you just be required to post in the World Religion section? If it isn't Christianity you shouldn't have your own forum.
Yes, most MJ statements of faith do sound just like Christianity. I don't know if it's to not offend the "Christian" who may be looking them over or what their reasoning is. But MJ and mainstream/traditional Chrisitanity are as different as day is from night. But like day and night have one thing in common (they share the same 24 hour period and are found on one clock), MJ has a few things in common with Christianity, they share Yeshua, the Father, the Spirit, but that's about it. MJ teaching is far different from mainstream.
Just thought to add this, that Beth Hallel is more Messianic Jews than Gentiles and has been around for over 30 years, much longer than the amount of time that Gentiles have been welcome into the movement.
I don't think that was what Vis was saying at all and find it offensive to her that she is being accused of this.
What I think she is saying and she is capable of correcting me if I am wrong, is NOT that what Yeshua did was pagan, not at all.
But the ritual that was handed down combined the Passover Seder with known gentile rites in order to make it more palatable for them. It is a well documented fact that that is what the early church did, so to be so incensed about it is ridicules.
It was a way to be 'in communion' with the deity. This can be seen in many documents on the history of religions. Most notably the Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Part 9 speaks extensively of the "eating of the god".
or
Perhaps if the SoF was worded differently, people would not understand that we indeed worship the God and Jesus that they are so used to. So if their effort to not make people think that they have accidently stepped across the line into something dark and dangerous, they've made the line of differentiation far too thin.
So let's see the actual links (author, book title and page number) to where this great volume of information is, and also where the Church acknowledges that it did this, please. May we also have the page number where Hastings says that this happened in the Church, all the way from India, and any footnote he may have added in this regard (as you have clearly read the whole article).: "But the ritual that was handed down combined the Passover Seder with known gentile rites in order to make it more palatable for them. It is a well documented fact that that is what the early church did, so to be so incensed about it is ridicules.
It was a way to be 'in communion' with the deity. This can be seen in many documents on the history of religions. Most notably the Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Part 9 speaks extensively of the "eating of the god".
I'm am interested in how you would write the Statement of Faith.
That Jews don't want to be associated with the word Christianity or Christian?
Yes, most MJ statements of faith do sound just like Christianity. I don't know if it's to not offend the "Christian" who may be looking them over or what their reasoning is.
But MJ and mainstream/traditional Chrisitanity are as different as day is from night.
But like day and night have one thing in common (they share the same 24 hour period and are found on one clock), MJ has a few things in common with Christianity, they share Yeshua, the Father, the Spirit, but that's about it. MJ teaching is far different from mainstream.
Just thought to add this, that Beth Hallel is more Messianic Jews than Gentiles and has been around for over 30 years, much longer than the amount of time that Gentiles have been welcome into the movement.
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