Messiah, michael and daniel 12:1

[Psalm 27]

Daniel had visions.

Daniel 10:5
I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, a certain man clothed in linen, whose waist was girded with gold of Uphaz!
6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the sound of his words like the voice of a multitude.

'This Man', Who Daniel addressed as LORD revealed that Michael helped Him against the prince of the kingdom of persia (v.13).

Michael may be a prince, but he's not the 'Messiah' Prince (Daniel 9:25) quoted in Isaiah 9:6

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace".

 

[BobRyan]

Daniel had visions.

Daniel 10:5
I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, a certain man clothed in linen, whose waist was girded with gold of Uphaz!
6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the sound of his words like the voice of a multitude.

'This Man', Who Daniel addressed as LORD revealed that Michael helped Him against the prince of the kingdom of persia (v.13).

Michael may be a prince, but he's not the 'Messiah' Prince (Daniel 9:25) quoted in Isaiah 9:6

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace".

He is the only prince mentioned in scripture in heaven who is "our prince" in heaven.

Dan 10:21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

Is 9:"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace".


He is called "our prince" in Is 9 and in Dan 10:21 -- it does not mean He is not God the Son , second person of the godhead , but like "the three men" appearing to Abraham Gen 18:2 where one also turns out to be LORD (YHWH) (a term that Daniel does not use toward the first angel (Gabriel) that meets him in Dan 9 and Dan 10)

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

He is the only prince mentioned in scripture

Not quite right. Satan is mentioned as the prince of the air.

Eph 2:2 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

 

[Psalm 27]

He is the only prince mentioned in scripture in heaven who is "our prince" in heaven.

Dan 10:21 However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

Is 9:"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace".


He is called "our prince" in Is 9 and in Dan 10:21 -- it does not mean He is not God the Son , second person of the godhead , but like "the three men" appearing to Abraham Gen 18:2 where one also turns out to be LORD (YHWH) (a term that Daniel does not use toward the first angel (Gabriel) that meets him in Dan 9 and Dan 10)

Two different princes.
There is also, in Daniel 8:11
1. the prince of the host,
2. a man who stood before Daniel (v15),
3. a man who spoke to Gabriel? from the river Ulai (v.16),
4. a prince of princes (v25)
5. there's Gabriel,
and there is
6. Messiah the Prince (9.25) Who is Jesus

Daniel 10:5...a certain man clothed in linen, whose waist was girded with gold of Uphaz! 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the sound of his words like the voice of a multitude.

7. There's a prince of the kingdom of persia (v13) who withstood Jesus for three weeks, (the same time that Daniel fasted?)
8. Michael-one of the chief princes came to help Jesus.
This man, who was Jesus, was addressed by Daniel as 'Lord', He strengthened Daniel.
9. There is a prince of Greece
Then michael 'your' prince, also called 'the great prince'.
(Daniel 12:1).

lots of princes, but only one Messiah prince, ie, the Prince of Peace, ie, Jesus (He spoke about michael helping Him)

 

[ViaCrucis]

Then there is also the fact that it's possible that the "messiah" in Daniel isn't The Messiah, but is more genericized and a reference to Cyrus the Great. Kings, prophets, priests can all be "anointed" and thus meshiach in a general or generic sense.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BobRyan]

Then there is also the fact that it's possible that the "messiah" in Daniel isn't The Messiah, but is more genericized and a reference to Cyrus the Great.

more likely in Dan 9 it is the Messiah who dies about 3 years into His ministry "in the midst of the week" of years and just as predicted - it happened.

Mark 1: 14 Now after John was taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

The prophetic time that Christ declared to be fulfilled is that of Dan 9 that predicted at the 69 week point (483 days = 483 years) the Messiah would begin His anointed ministry (as the anointed one) which would be 27 A.D. as predicted.

=============

Rather than disconnected snips in Dan 9 about pagan kings - the Messiah is Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

Two different princes.
There is also, in Daniel 8:11
1. the prince of the host,
2. a man who stood before Daniel (v15),
3. a man who spoke to Gabriel? from the river Ulai (v.16),
4. a prince of princes (v25)

All of them in those cases above where "prince" is used - are a reference to the one and only prince "of your people" Dan 10, "given unto us" Isaiah 9.

6. Messiah the Prince (9.25) Who is Jesus

true.

Daniel 10:5...a certain man clothed in linen, whose waist was girded with gold of Uphaz! 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the sound of his words like the voice of a multitude.

7. There's a prince of the kingdom of persia (v13) who withstood Jesus for three weeks,

"prince of the kingdom of persia" in Dan 7 is placed in contrast to the Messiah. That's an easy one.

9. There is a prince of Greece

Dan 11 has the "Prince of the Covenant" another easy contrast to pagan kings.

 

[Psalm 27]

...His eyes like a flame of fire... Revelation 1:14
...His eyes like torches of fire...Daniel 10:6

 

[Blade]

Yeah it was not Christ that talked to Daniel. So are we thinking by the description maybe it was Christ? Sure and Christ had to call on Michael to come help him. There was nothing that is that was not made by Him.

Its all speculation for it does not say. Kind a funny huh. Well we read OT and know Christ did show up in places talked to people yet today when someone says that we don't believe. Odd

 

[BobRyan]

Yeah it was not Christ that talked to Daniel. So are we thinking by the description maybe it was Christ?

Gabriel talked with Daniel in chapter 9, 10, 11 etc.

Sure and Christ had to call on Michael to come help him. There was nothing that is that was not made by Him.

Not at all likely that God the Son called an angel to help him. More reasonable to say an angel called for God the Son to help

 

[Psalm 27]

Thankyiu for your cooperation

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

In Daniel 9 Daniel meets Gabriel and mentions "one of the chief princes" as Michael so there are some princes, as can be a plurality of princes, but only one king. Isaiah 9:6, prince of peace, and the Father would be king of peace. Jerusalem actually means, king of peace. On three thrones, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. King of Kings, Lord of Lords, King Jesus, one Kingdom of God.

In Daniel 10, it opens with mention of Michael and Gabriel strengthens him. The Son does not need to be strengthened by angels, noting that Jesus did. Jesus fully God and fully man, his human spirit needed strength as we do.

 

[Hawkins]

You need to compare with John's vision in the book of Revelation,

Daniel 10:5-6 (NIV):
I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist.
His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.

Revelation 1:14-15 (NIV):
The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.
His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.


There is a reason why Daniel is considered a prophet by Jesus Christ but not the Jews. OT prophets are eyewitnesses of God as identified by the Jews. Daniel on the hand, perhaps without his own awareness as it's not yet time for God the Son to be fully revealed, is a prophet (not reckoned by the Jews though) simply because he's an eyewitness of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 24:15-16 (NIV):
So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel - let the reader understand - then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

The significance of the above verse not only authenticates Daniel as a prophet, but also signifies the importance of the end time prophecy. It is a prophecy by Daniel through the fall the First Temple, then for Jesus to prophesy the fall of the Second Temple, then for God to prophesy the very end (possibly the spiritual fall of the physical Church).

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

You need to compare with John's vision in the book of Revelation,

Daniel 10:5-6 (NIV):
I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist.
His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.

Revelation 1:14-15 (NIV):
The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.
His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.


There is a reason why Daniel is considered a prophet by Jesus Christ but not the Jews. OT prophets are eyewitnesses of God as identified by the Jews. Daniel on the hand, perhaps without his own awareness as it's not yet time for God the Son to be fully revealed, is a prophet (not reckoned by the Jews though) simply because he's an eyewitness of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 24:15-16 (NIV):
So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel - let the reader understand - then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

The significance of the above verse not only authenticates Daniel as a prophet, but also signifies the importance of the end time prophecy. It is a prophecy by Daniel through the fall the First Temple, then for Jesus to prophesy the fall of the Second Temple, then for God to prophesy the very end (possibly the spiritual fall of the physical Church).

The angel in Revelation 1:14-15, would to me be Jesus' personal angel. Or perhaps the re-appearance of the Angel of the Lord, one who commanded not to worship. What do you think Hawkins?

 

[Hawkins]

The angel in Revelation 1:14-15, would to me be Jesus' personal angel. Or perhaps the re-appearance of the Angel of the Lord, one who commanded not to worship. What do you think Hawkins?

The verses following show that He's Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:17-18 (NIV):
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The verses following show that He's Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:17-18 (NIV):
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

In Revelation 19:10 he speaks again and says John is not to worship him. In Revelation 4-5, John sees Jesus on the throne glorified and worshiped. His appearance is like Jasper and Carnelian. Jesus' Earthly body now glorified. Not white hair and still bearing wounds.

He is on the throne and there is another figure, a slain lamb, like the angel with white hair, he represents Jesus.

In Exodus the Angel of the Lord is commanded to be given reverence, this angel is unique, it is like in him is the presence of God so great that God is there more than the angel. Like God is the rock of the Earth and the angel the blue film around it, the Earth from high above is the simile.

So the angel with astonishing appearance is full of the Lord the Son, but is still an angel and he is prophesying for the Son, through Revelation he directs John and moves him. And John sees Jesus who is given worship as angels are not and as in Revelation 19:10 the angel does not accept John's worship.

 

[Psalm 27]

It was one of the seven angels
Rev 22
8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.

9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

It was one of the seven angels
Rev 22
8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.

9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

Psalm 27, how do you know it was one of the seven angels and not the Angel of the Lord?
Perhaps he was both?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I typed up two similar threads, interested in the angels and the Holy One.