Messiah and the Covenant

[Pilgrimer]

If Messiah’s ‘law’ is ANYTHING but the exact same Torah of the Father, or if Messiah’s ‘law’ teaches something contrary to the Torah of the Father, he would be a false messiah! Make sure you’re not following a prophet who breaks and teaches the breaking of God’s commandments…

Jesus said his blood was shed for remission of sin, the Law said the blood of bulls and goats was required to atone for sin. The blood of Jesus and the blood of bulls and goats is not exactly the same, in fact, they are drastically different.

And Jesus said to eat his flesh and drink his blood, which is nowhere taught in the Law and is in fact contrary to the Law which says blood is not to be eaten.

Is Jesus therefore a false Messiah?

Or could it be that there is much more to the Law than the carnal view you insist on.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Clare73]

It’s quite disappointing to see you looking for reasons to invalidate and expire any of God’s Clear Instructions in Righteousness.

And even more disappointing to see you set the Word of God against itself.

Do you mean to tell me that people were saved, or imputed righteousness by another means besides BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, at some point in time???

Jesus had to keep and fulfill the Mosaic Law to remain sinless, because sin is transgression of the Law.
The people of God were commanded by God to keep the Mosiac Law from the day it was given until the day it was fulfilled by Christ's complete obedience to it, and in Christ's person as the reality of its shadows (Heb 10:1).

The people of God are no longer commanded to keep the Law of Moses, rather they are commanded to keep the Law of Christ, which is love, and which upholds the Law of Moses, with the big distinction that there is no curse attached to the Law of Christ.

No small matter, that.

That is the revelation of the Word of God.

 

[tzadik]

If God's intent was truly as you insist to send Jesus to renew the Old Covenant so that His people could serve Him according to the commandments of the Law, then why did God take away everything He had provided for the Law's observance?

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

If someone burns down all the churches in America, would that stop you from serving and obeying God?

If someone burns down all the Bibles in your city, no your state, would that cause you to cease from walking in God's ways?

What in the world does the destruction of the Temple, have to do with ALL of God's Torah.

It's simple really, all the commandments and instructions that relate to the Temple, are impossible to perform, therefore you are actually KEEPING the mitzvot by NOT performing Temple services OUTSIDE the Temple.

Read Deuteronomy 30:1-5~ God expects His people to obey His commandments, even when they are SCATTERED among heathens. (no temple, no priesthood, no land of Israel, no theocratic judicial system)

""So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the LORD your God has banished you, and you return to the LORD your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons, then the LORD your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has scattered you." - Deut. 30:1-3

Doesn't matter where you are.
Doesn't matter if there is or isn't a Temple.
Doesn't matter if there is or isn't a Levitical Priesthood.
Doesn't matter if there is or isn't a Theocratic Judicial system in the Land.
As a child of God, God wants you to obey the commandments of God!

you know why?
because~ "this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. It is not in heaven, that you should say, `Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, `Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it." - Deut. 30:11-14

Amen!

 

[tzadik]

You set the Word of God against itself.
Two points:

1) The Word of God reveals that the priesthood in the order of Aaron (which was the basis for the Mosaic Law--Heb 7:11)
was changed to the order of Melchizedek, in fulfillment of Ps 110:4 (Heb 7:17-20),

How many times are you going to use this erroneous teaching to support your entire theology???

It's already been disproved countless times that the Law of God is NOT based on the Levitical Priesthood.

So stop saying that it is. your entire perspective of the Law of God will be erroneous if you found it on a grievous error.

The basis of the Law of God is LOVE GOD, and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

The Son of God clearly told us this in Matthew 22:40.
Please amend your records.

 

[Frogster]

How many times are you going to use this erroneous teaching to support your entire theology???

It's already been disproved countless times that the Law of God is NOT based on the Levitical Priesthood.

So stop saying that it is. your entire perspective of the Law of God will be erroneous if you found it on a grievous error.

The basis of the Law of God is LOVE GOD, and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

The Son of God clearly told us this in Matthew 22:40.
Please amend your records.

then show us where the priesthood laws, did not come from God!????

The law was one legal code...

Stop acting like the law was not one legal system.

Josh 1:8, Deut 28:58, Deut 28:15, Lev 26:15, James 2:10, Gal 3:10, Gal 5:3, Heb 9:19, Ex 24:7, Ex 24:3, Neh 10:29.

 

[Frogster]

How many times are you going to use this erroneous teaching to support your entire theology???

It's already been disproved countless times that the Law of God is NOT based on the Levitical Priesthood.

So stop saying that it is. your entire perspective of the Law of God will be erroneous if you found it on a grievous error.

The basis of the Law of God is LOVE GOD, and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

The Son of God clearly told us this in Matthew 22:40.
Please amend your records.

There was a change of the law..the law was one..7:12.

legal...see the legal word? See the commandment word?

See the FORMER WORD?



7;16 who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is witnessed of him,

“You are a priest forever,
after the order of Melchizedek.”

18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.

 

[Pilgrimer]

If someone burns down all the churches in America, would that stop you from serving and obeying God?
If someone burns down all the Bibles in your city, no your state, would that cause you to cease from walking in God's ways?

Under the New Covenant, being reconciled (made right) with God, and having fellowship with God is not effected (caused) by a church, or even by the printed Bible. My reconciliation and fellowship with God is effected by the blood of Jesus. Even if I were to spend the rest of my life in prison and could never again enter a church or hold a Bible in my hand, it would in no way alter my relationship with God.

Under the Old Covenant, the Law commanded that reconciliation and fellowship with God be made through the ministry of the Tabernacle/Temple. Without a tabernacle/temple, there is no reconciliation with God, and without being first reconciled with God, there is no hope of fellowship with him and no amount of obedience can change that.

It's simple really, all the commandments and instructions that relate to the Temple, are impossible to perform, therefore you are actually KEEPING the mitzvot by NOT performing Temple services OUTSIDE the Temple.

Read Deuteronomy 30:1-5~ God expects His people to obey His commandments, even when they are SCATTERED among heathens. (no temple, no priesthood, no land of Israel, no theocratic judicial system)

""So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the LORD your God has banished you, and you return to the LORD your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons, then the LORD your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has scattered you." - Deut. 30:1-3

Doesn't matter where you are.
Doesn't matter if there is or isn't a Temple.
Doesn't matter if there is or isn't a Levitical Priesthood.
Doesn't matter if there is or isn't a Theocratic Judicial system in the Land.
As a child of God, God wants you to obey the commandments of God!

you know why?
because~ "this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. It is not in heaven, that you should say, `Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, `Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it." - Deut. 30:11-14

Gee tzadik, I'm not the one insisting that "it's impossible" to keep all God's commandments. You are. I'm trying to tell you they are not impossible to keep, it's obedience to the shadows of God's Law that have passed away, the substance of God's Law is obedience to Christ.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Frogster]

How many times are you going to use this erroneous teaching to support your entire theology???

It's already been disproved countless times that the Law of God is NOT based on the Levitical Priesthood.

So stop saying that it is. your entire perspective of the Law of God will be erroneous if you found it on a grievous error.

The basis of the Law of God is LOVE GOD, and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

The Son of God clearly told us this in Matthew 22:40.
Please amend your records.

The law says not to wear interwoven garments..do you?

ya got any cotton poly blends?

 

[YouareloveD]

I am not "physically" circumcised, and I don't observe the sabbath which is on the seventh day of the week. I do observe the Lords day, but I do not work 6 days per week, I have accepted Christ as He has redeemed me from sin and reconciled me into a relationship with Him and the Father. So my question- without being physically circumcised or observing the sabbath, is it possible that I am walking in obedience to Christ?

The answer will determine if the faith one professes is legalism or faith in Christ.

 

[JLB777]

I am not "physically" circumcised, and I don't observe the sabbath which is on the sixth day of the week. I do observe the Lords day, but I do not work 6 days per week, I have accepted Christ as He has redeemed me from sin and reconciled me into a relationship with Him and the Father. So my question- without being physically circumcised or observing the sabbath, is it possible that I am walking in obedience to Christ?

The answer will determine if the faith one professes is legalism or faith in Christ.

Thank you for your comment.

I think you meant to say seventh day.


Thanks, JLB

 

[JLB777]

How many times are you going to use this erroneous teaching to support your entire theology???

It's already been disproved countless times that the Law of God is NOT based on the Levitical Priesthood.

So stop saying that it is. your entire perspective of the Law of God will be erroneous if you found it on a grievous error.

The basis of the Law of God is LOVE GOD, and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

The Son of God clearly told us this in Matthew 22:40.
Please amend your records.

How many times are you going to use this erroneous teaching to support your entire theology!


Christ is the end of the law for righteousness !

"Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."



For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, " 'Who will descend into the abyss?' " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." Romans 10:3-11

Christ is the end of the law for righteousness !

What does this scripture mean to you!


JLB

 

[ananda]

The answer will determine if the faith one professes is legalism or faith in Christ.

Do you understand that there is a difference between legalism & lawful obedience?

 

[Frogster]

Do you understand that there is a difference between legalism & lawful obedience?

then for the equation to jive, you would have to say one is not unrighteous, if he does not keep the law.

because flip it around, and u will see what the frog means.

 

[Frogster]

Under the New Covenant, being reconciled (made right) with God, and having fellowship with God is not effected (caused) by a church, or even by the printed Bible. My reconciliation and fellowship with God is effected by the blood of Jesus. Even if I were to spend the rest of my life in prison and could never again enter a church or hold a Bible in my hand, it would in no way alter my relationship with God.

Under the Old Covenant, the Law commanded that reconciliation and fellowship with God be made through the ministry of the Tabernacle/Temple. Without a tabernacle/temple, there is no reconciliation with God, and without being first reconciled with God, there is no hope of fellowship with him and no amount of obedience can change that.



Gee tzadik, I'm not the one insisting that "it's impossible" to keep all God's commandments. You are. I'm trying to tell you they are not impossible to keep, it's obedience to the shadows of God's Law that have passed away, the substance of God's Law is obedience to Christ.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[Frogster]

You set the Word of God against itself.
Two points:

1) The Word of God reveals that the priesthood in the order of Aaron (which was the basis for the Mosaic Law--Heb 7:11)
was changed to the order of Melchizedek, in fulfillment of Ps 110:4 (Heb 7:17-20),
thereby requiring that the law on which it was based also be changed (Heb 7:12), set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and replaced with the law of Christ (1Co 9:21), its new high priest in the order of Melchizedek, which is love (Jas 2:8; Ro 13:8-10).

The law of Moses is upheld (established) because:
a) it is its ceremonial obligations which are fulfilled in Christ's person,
b) it is its moral obligations which are fulfilled in Christ's law of love (Ro 13:8-10).

That is the revelation of the Word of God.

2) Are you saying Jesus Christ spoke saying, "Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them."?

 

[Pilgrimer]

Read Deuteronomy 30:1-5~ God expects His people to obey His commandments, even when they are SCATTERED among heathens. (no temple, no priesthood, no land of Israel, no theocratic judicial system)

""So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the LORD your God has banished you, and you return to the LORD your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons, then the LORD your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has scattered you." - Deut. 30:1-3

To be banished from the land and scattered among the nations with no temple or priesthood was a curse. Are you saying you believe you are cursed?

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[tzadik]

To be banished from the land and scattered among the nations with no temple or priesthood was a curse. Are you saying you believe you are cursed?

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

You are missing the point...again.
What does God require from His people, EVEN AFTER they've been cursed...
EVEN AFTER there was no longer a Temple....
EVEN AFTER there was no longer a Priesthood...
EVEN AFTER they were no longer in the Land...
Does He give them a "the Law is no longer applicable pass"
Does He say "you are free from the Law"

GOD FORBID!
He tells them to "return to the LORD your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons, then the LORD your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has scattered you."

God wants us to obey Him no matter the cost.
The destruction of the temple is not a reason to disobey God!
It might be for you...but it's not for me.
Or for God~

 

[tzadik]

How many times are you going to use this erroneous teaching to support your entire theology!


Christ is the end of the law for righteousness !

"Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."


Christ is the end of the law for righteousness !

What does this scripture mean to you!


JLB

telos = aim/goal and NOT end.
Stop using mistranslations and misinterpretation of Scripture to support your theology.

Unless of course you honestly did not know that, or ever took the time to look at the Greek...and are honestly misled...

Messiah continues to be the Goal and Aim of the Torah!!

 

[Clare73]

How many times are you going to use this erroneous teaching to support your entire theology???

This "erroneous teaching" is the Word of God (Heb 7:12, 18), which you reject.

Your misunderstanding of Scripture sets the Word of God against itself.

 

[tzadik]

This "erroneous teaching" is the Word of God (Heb 7:12, 18), which you reject.

Your misunderstanding of Scripture sets the Word of God against itself.

parrot alert!
The basis of the Entire Law of God is...


37. And He said to him, " `YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
38. "This is the great and foremost commandment.
39. "The second is like it, `YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
40. "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

If you believe Messiah was lying...
you should take it up with him.

Let Him know that He was incorrect, and that you have since discovered that the Law depends on the priesthood, and not these two commandments...