Messiah and the Covenant

[ananda]

Paul didn't write Hebrews.

In the case of Hebrews, I reject it because I believe it disagrees with the Torah and the Prophets (Deu 13, 18, Isa 8:20). If I may ask, why do you believe it?

 

[Clare73]

In the case of Hebrews, I reject it because I believe it disagrees with the Torah and the Prophets (Deu 13, 18, Isa 8:20).

Well, let's see. . .the OT people of God had incomplete Scripture for ~1500 years before Christ came, while the NT people of God have had completed Scripture for ~2000 years now.

You're bucking a strong wind there (Jn 3:8).

If I may ask, why do you believe it?

For the same reason I believe Exodus and Leviticus.

Because the Holy Spirit bears powerful and convincing witness to me that all 66 books of the Bible are God-breathed.

Therefore, my job is belief and reconciliation of them, not unbelief and rejection of what my misunderstanding sees as contradictory among them.

 

[visionary]

Well, let's see. . .the OT was Scripture for ~1500 years before Christ came, while the NT has been Scripture for ~2000 years since Christ came.

You're bucking a strong wind there (Jn 3:8).


Because the Holy Spirit bears powerful and convincing witness to me that all 66 books of the Bible are God-breathed.

Therefore, my job is belief and reconciliation of them, not unbelief and rejection of what my misunderstanding sees as contradictory among them.

I agree

 

[JLB777]

In the case of Hebrews, I reject it because I believe it disagrees with the Torah and the Prophets (Deu 13, 18, Isa 8:20). If I may ask, why do you believe it?

You are free to reject anything in The Word you like.

That is what Korah did, he rejected The Lord's appointed leadership.
He set himself in a position that Aaron had.

THEREFORE HE REJECTED THE LORD!!!

You know, like Lucifer wanted to be in a position that God had not appointed him to!


This is what the Lord that about Korah's attitude!

But if the Lord creates a new thing, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the pit, then you will understand that these men have rejected the Lord."

When you reject those that God appointed to write scripture and exalt yourself above the Word of God, you reject God, whether you know it or not!

That is what Aaron's rod that budded, that was placed in the Ark represented THE SIN OF REJECTING THE LORD'S APPOINTED LEADERSHIP!!



JLB

 

[ananda]

You are free to reject anything in The Word you like. That is what Korah did, he rejected The Lord's appointed leadership.
He set himself in a position that Aaron had. THEREFORE HE REJECTED THE LORD!!! ... When you reject those that God appointed to write scripture and exalt yourself above the Word of God, you reject God, whether you know it or not! JLB

Under what rules do you consider Hebrews to be "Scripture" and not, say, the Didache, Enoch, the Clementine Epistles, or the Shepherd of Hermas?

I've demonstrated the objective Scriptural guidelines and rules, which I follow. So far, I have not heard of any guidelines or rules by any opponent to my position, except to appeal to feelings or faith.

You are correct on this, though: If we (or anyone) remove any part of YHWH's Word, then we are in danger of judgment. On the other hand, you should also keep this in mind: If you (or anyone) add to YHWH's Word, words which He has not spoken (e.g., perhaps Paul's words), then you are also in danger of judgment (e.g. Deu 4:2,12:32,Rev 22:18,19).

 

[JLB777]

Under what rules do you consider Hebrews to be "Scripture" and not, say, the Didache, Enoch, the Clementine Epistles, or the Shepherd of Hermas?

I've demonstrated the objective Scriptural guidelines and rules, which I follow. So far, I have not heard of any guidelines or rules by any opponent to my position, except to appeal to feelings or faith.

You are correct on this, though: If we (or anyone) remove any part of YHWH's Word, then we are in danger of judgment. On the other hand, you should also keep this in mind: If you (or anyone) add to YHWH's Word, words which He has not spoken (e.g., perhaps Paul's words), then you are also in danger of judgment (e.g. Deu 4:2,12:32,Rev 22:18,19).

How do you prove The Torah is The Word of God?

 

[JLB777]

How do you prove God is real?

 

[JLB777]

Because I have faith.

So then you have proved my point. It is a righteousness that is of faith, that is approved of God, not of works.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

It's a proven bonus!


JLB

 

[ananda]

How do you prove The Torah is The Word of God?

How do you prove God is real?

Fulfilled prophecy. This proves to me that the Author is beyond space and time. Messiah then provided a second witness, by affirming that Torah was Scripture.

 

[ananda]

Because I have faith.

I have trust, not simply faith.

So then you have proved my point. It is a righteousness that is of faith, that is approved of God, not of works. But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

The righteous one lives by his faithfulness (באמונתו, emunatow, steadfastness, obedient living). Hab 2:4

 

[JLB777]

Fulfilled prophecy. This proves to me that the Author is beyond space and time. Messiah then provided a second witness, by affirming that Torah was Scripture.

Excellent!

"These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."


Amen, Jesus fulfilled all the law, the prophets and the Psalms.

I know, not because I was there, but because it was written IN THE NEW TESTAMENT!

JLB

 

[ananda]

"These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me." Amen, Jesus fulfilled all the law, the prophets and the Psalms. I know, not because I was there, but because it was written IN THE NEW TESTAMENT!

Your interpretation of this verse is incorrect. Here is a better translation:

"These are the words which I spoke to you, being yet with you, that it behoveth to be fulfilled (δεῖ πληρωθῆνα&#953 all the things that are written in the Law of Moses, and the Prophets, and the Psalms, about me."

The δεῖ πληρωθῆναι is in the Greek present indicative tense. This tense indicates that, at the time Messiah was speaking, He was beginning to start fulfilling the prophecies concerning Him, but the timeframe for completion would extend into the indefinite future.

Messiah did not completely fulfill the prophecies in the Law and the Prophets; they are yet to be completed.

 

[tzadik]

Excellent!

"These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."


Amen, Jesus fulfilled all the law, the prophets and the Psalms.

Lol. Are you serious?

Do you seriously believe that Messiah fulfilled EVERYTHING prophesied in the Scriptures?
As in you don’t even believe Messiah’s coming back???

Smh.

Is He coming back?
Is He regathering His People?
Is He coming to reign as the conquering King on the Throne of David in the City of the Great King?
Is He restoring the two houses?
Is He going to be revealed in the clouds at the sound of the trumpets
Will He rule with a rod of Iron?

If the answer to ANY of these questions is yes….
Then your red highlighted statement is an incorrect one

 

[tzadik]

Your interpretation of this verse is incorrect. Here is a better translation:

"These are the words which I spoke to you, being yet with you, that it behoveth to be fulfilled (δεῖ πληρωθῆνα&#953 all the things that are written in the Law of Moses, and the Prophets, and the Psalms, about me."

The δεῖ πληρωθῆναι is in the Greek present indicative tense. This tense indicates that, at the time Messiah was speaking, He was beginning to start fulfilling the prophecies concerning Him, but the timeframe for completion would extend into the indefinite future.

Messiah did not completely fulfill the prophecies in the Law and the Prophets; they are yet to be completed.

It's as if they don't realize that they would be in a WHOLE LOTTA TROUBLE, if "everything in the Law and the Prophets were indeed already accomplished"....

with the world still in the state that it's in...

They are so concerned about doing away with the Law...that they stop thinking logically.

I for one am ECSTATIC that He's coming back for some UNFINISHED business!


18. "But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.
19. "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
20. and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,
21. whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Acts 3:18-21

Thy Kingdom come, Thy WILL be done on earth as it is in Heaven!

 

[JLB777]

It's as if they don't realize that they would be in a WHOLE LOTTA TROUBLE, if "everything in the Law and the Prophets were indeed already accomplished"....

with the world still in the state that it's in...

They are so concerned about doing away with the Law...that they stop thinking logically.

I for one am ECSTATIC that He's coming back for some UNFINISHED business!


18. "But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.
19. "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
20. and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,
21. whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Acts 3:18-21

Thy Kingdom come, Thy WILL be done on earth as it is in Heaven!

Now that's funny!

You reject the book of Acts because it does not meet your criteria for scripture. Then you quote it to validate THE OLD TESTAMENT!

Interesting!


JLB

 

[visionary]

Excellent!

"These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."


Amen, Jesus fulfilled all the law, the prophets and the Psalms.

I know, not because I was there, but because it was written IN THE NEW TESTAMENT!

JLB

All things must be fulfilled... but no where can you find all of it fulfilled with His first coming.

 

[ananda]

Now that's funny! You reject the book of Acts because it does not meet your criteria for scripture. Then you quote it to validate THE OLD TESTAMENT! Interesting! JLB

Are you confusing tzadik with myself?

 

[tzadik]

Now that's funny!

You reject the book of Acts because it does not meet your criteria for scripture. Then you quote it to validate THE OLD TESTAMENT!

Interesting!


JLB

Are you serious??

Acts might be my favorite book in the Apostolic Scriptures!
Acts literally proves that All "NT believers" continued to ACTS ACCORDING TO THE TORAH!

Ironically enough...
Case in point Acts 21:20...
do you know what 'tens of thousands' means???

 

[tzadik]

Are you confusing tzadik with myself?

lol...i think he might be...
we do after all 'look' alike

 

[ananda]

lol...i think he might be...
we do after all 'look' alike