Mental illness and Christianity/religion

[Scann]

But if you rely on faith for the healing of sickness, all you will get are prayers and rituals and no medications, surgeries etc. The religious sometimes blame the sick for their ailments or blame demonic possession.

The relative I told you about believed his OCD was demonic possession once and prayed it away repeatedly with the divine help never arriving. He has now come to terms that God didn't help him because medicine was available and he should have turned to medicine.It's like that story of the guy whose house was flooded and he rejected God's help 3 times when God repeatedly sent 3 "earthly" vehicles because he was looking for a miracle.

 

[timewerx]

I define mental illness as life destroying delusions and inability to think clearly and make rational decisions. I've seen it close up and experienced it firsthand.

ARe you saying everyone on EArth is mentally ill?

Look at the world history.

And look at where humanity is heading into.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

ARe you saying everyone on EArth is mentally ill?

Look at the world history.

And look at where humanity is heading into.

Mankind isn't exactly mentally ill, but we're certainly not thinking clearly. Why is it so easy to do the wrong thing, but such an effort to do right? (This is a loaded question, just so you know.)

Example: It's easier to just shove your shopping cart in the general direction of the corral than to place it properly, but it isn't right.

 

[AgonyApathy]

Mental illness is a very delicate subject where religion is concerned. I wouldn't expect much encouragement here.

I don't know what I'm looking for to be honest. I'm in a terrible situation and this is something to do besides mope.

I think this is what religion actually is. Something is bothering me and religion gives me metaphors, examples and stories that I can use to understand the situation, and a reference point for discussion with others. At the societal level, religions help to bind people together.

At this point, I see religion as an activity that people partake in. That doesn't necessarily mean that God doesn't exist, but it doesn't help.

 

[AgonyApathy]

ARe you saying everyone on EArth is mentally ill?

Look at the world history.

And look at where humanity is heading into.

There isn't a direct link between mental illness and violence, crime, etc. The vast majority of mentally ill people are just confused, scared or drowning in their own emotions. The most severely mentally ill can be reduced to jibberish or catatonic states.

Most crimes, most corruption, most nefarious deeds, are done without mental illness as a factor.

I actually think this is a point in religion's favor. If mental illness was what primarily caused people to be criminals, jerks, etc, then illness is to be blame for things religion claims are moral choices.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I don't know what I'm looking for to be honest. I'm in a terrible situation and this is something to do besides mope.

I think this is what religion actually is. Something is bothering me and religion gives me metaphors, examples and stories that I can use to understand the situation, and a reference point for discussion with others. At the societal level, religions help to bind people together.

At this point, I see religion as an activity that people partake in. That doesn't necessarily mean that God doesn't exist, but it doesn't help.

You have my sympathy. My mother suffered from paranoia and schizophrenia all of her life. It was well controlled with medication, and she was able to care for herself in a dignified manner, but was otherwise incapacitated. She was a devout member of her church until she was no longer able to attend services. She understood her disability and was reconciled to the limitations it placed on her, and her dependence on others. She 'owned' it. She did receive help from various social services available to such as her, finally residing in a county facility until her death at age 94.

 

[AgonyApathy]

I do have a relative who had depression once while having OCD. If you need any advice, I will try to help you.

Thanks, but I have the advice I need. I need to execute and it's a miserable, sad and frustrating experience.

My point is that prevention is better than cure. God, and science as well, has revealed abundantly the means of great health. Some maladies take generations of abusing health to manifest, and will likewise take generations of good health practices to mitigate.

Put another way, people don't buy health insurance with the intention of caring for their health, but so they don't have to pay attention to their health. Of course this in insane.

I agree with you there, but I don't necessarily need Jesus in my life to run on the treadmill and not smoke cigarettes. I also lived in Taiwan, part of China where people are usually raised with Confucian values and there's not much "religion." Taiwan gives you a picture of what China might be like without Communism. It's pretty cool.

It's hard to think about Jesus in the same way after experiences like that. I didn't think that Taiwan needed evangelists.

 

[AgonyApathy]

You have my sympathy. My mother suffered from paranoia and schizophrenia all of her life. It was well controlled with medication, and she was able to care for herself in a dignified manner, but was otherwise incapacitated. She was a devout member of her church until she was no longer able to attend services. She understood her disability and was reconciled to the limitations it placed on her, and her dependence on others. She 'owned' it. She did receive help from various social services available to such as her, finally residing in a county facility until her death at age 94.

So sorry to hear about what happened to your mother. I wish I had something like her faith in my life but I can't find it. It doesn't seem right or real. Church feels very empty and dead to me.

 

[AgonyApathy]

The relative I told you about believed his OCD was demonic possession once and prayed it away repeatedly with the divine help never arriving. He has now come to terms that God didn't help him because medicine was available and he should have turned to medicine.It's like that story of the guy whose house was flooded and he rejected God's help 3 times when God repeatedly sent 3 "earthly" vehicles because he was looking for a miracle.

How can you tell a delusion from real demonic possession? Maybe he needed Catholic Priest to take care of business.

Was he able to repair his relationship with God after that? I want to punch the Big G right in the face.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How can you tell a delusion from real demonic possession? Maybe he needed Catholic Priest to take care of business.

Was he able to repair his relationship with God after that? I want to punch the Big G right in the face.

"Your arm's too short to box with God."

 

[Scann]

How can you tell a delusion from real demonic possession? Maybe he needed Catholic Priest to take care of business.

Was he able to repair his relationship with God after that? I want to punch the Big G right in the face.

I don't believe he needed a Catholic Priest cause I don't believe in Catholicism. But anyway, since medicine did help then that was clearly a sign that it wasn't a demonic issue. His OCD was that he kept on receiving horrific images of deformed people in his head and he was afraid of accidentally being able to curse his friends psychicly/telepathically and make them deformed as well. Doesn't sound demonic to me.
Um yeah, he did manage to repair his relationship with God. His(and my) reasoning was that help was already available in the form of medicine so no need for God's help.

 

[Scann]

I want to punch the Big G right in the face.

Maybe God is helping cause when you mention "punching", it reminds me to tell you about about my experience. I remember your analogy "This is more like... imagine you loved sports, but were born with a weird problem with your legs and couldn't run." Well,I love boxing and everyone in class has to box for three one minute rounds whereas I have a condition known as Hyperhidrosis(heavy sweating and tiring out early) which makes me unable to go pass one round and usually have to be declared the loser of many matches. I was angry at God for making me this way but I've worked around it. Just deliver some blows to knock them to the ground so even if you can't make it to the second round, people can see you are capable. I still fail to knock them out most of the time and STILL get declared the loser but I've grown to get used to it. I know that is a lust-filled intention (which is not how someone who believes in Christ should behave) to get recognition but that's another story lol. But back on to serious business. Have you tried starting life anew after all your terrible experiences?
Ok. Gotta go but hope your life gets better.

 

[timewerx]

There isn't a direct link between mental illness and violence, crime, etc. The vast majority of mentally ill people are just confused, scared or drowning in their own emotions. The most severely mentally ill can be reduced to jibberish or catatonic states.

Most crimes, most corruption, most nefarious deeds, are done without mental illness as a factor.

I actually think this is a point in religion's favor. If mental illness was what primarily caused people to be criminals, jerks, etc, then illness is to be blame for things religion claims are moral choices.

I think our society as a whole is dysfunctional. It's not just the crimes, not just corruption, not just injustice.

We do make lots of waste in everything we do. We mostly act with the least regard for others (or only if it's easy, convenient, or fun). Our boundless greed is either destroying lives or denying hope to those looking for it.

We may not be causing immediate harm to ourselves but we do others indirectly through indifference and greed.

We might be even worse than those we judge to be mentally ill, at least we have a choice, they don't.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I think our society as a whole is dysfunctional. It's not just the crimes, not just corruption, not just injustice.

We do make lots of waste in everything we do. We mostly act with the least regard for others (or only if it's easy, convenient, or fun). Our boundless greed is either destroying lives or denying hope to those looking for it.

We may not be causing immediate harm to ourselves but we do others indirectly through indifference and greed.

We might be even worse than those we judge to be mentally ill, at least we have a choice, they don't.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[SkyWriting]

I met a guy who thought he was Jesus. He genuinely believed that he was the Son of God returned to the Earth, and he went out into the streets to teach his new gospel. He was, in reality, babbling complete nonsense at strangers and he was quickly arrested. He thought the cops were taking him to be crucified, and he started praying and quoting scriptures and telling the police that he forgave them.

He was diagnosed with schizophrenia and the medications helped him a lot. He then had to live with the horrific realization that he was not anything special, just a man.

This seems like a cruel trick for God to play on someone. I can wrap my head around, say, cancer, as something God allows to be inflicted on a man. Mental illness is harder to digest.

Christianity is all about belief and action. If a disease can cause your personality to change or cause you to believe in a delusion that is blasphemous and self-destructive, how is that fair? Why would God create a world where we're judged according to our thoughts, words and actions, then allow people to contract mental illnesses, brain tumors or traumatic brain injuries that drive them to immoral, humiliating or even destructive actions?

That's a GREAT question!

God judges only the heart.

The mentally ill are safe because God planned for them to be that way.

 

[AgonyApathy]

I don't believe he needed a Catholic Priest cause I don't believe in Catholicism. But anyway, since medicine did help then that was clearly a sign that it wasn't a demonic issue. His OCD was that he kept on receiving horrific images of deformed people in his head and he was afraid of accidentally being able to curse his friends psychicly/telepathically and make them deformed as well. Doesn't sound demonic to me.
Um yeah, he did manage to repair his relationship with God. His(and my) reasoning was that help was already available in the form of medicine so no need for God's help.

To be honest, that sounds more like schizophrenia and the kinds of problems I'm having, minus the demons. Mental illness SUCKS. Sorry that happened to someone in your family!

I grew up Catholic and even attended Catholic schools. I've gone on a long and complex spiritual journey since then, but there's part of me that will always think that way

 

[AgonyApathy]

That's a GREAT question!

God judges only the heart.

The mentally ill are safe because God planned for them to be that way.

Mental illness has taken pretty much everything in my life I ever loved. I'm infuriated with God for planning me to have first years of depression, and then, just as the depression was going away and I was turning my life around, I had the onset of my schizophrenia. Everything ruined. Everything.

 

[AgonyApathy]

"Your arm's too short to box with God."

That's a great line. I googled it and found out it's from a musical. I'll have to listen to the music sometime.

 

[SkyWriting]

Mental illness has taken pretty much everything in my life I ever loved. I'm infuriated with God for planning me to have first years of depression, and then, just as the depression was going away and I was turning my life around, I had the onset of my schizophrenia. Everything ruined. Everything.

My brother shot himself in the head.
I'm still living and pleased about it.
Hardships are what living is all about.

"What doesn't kill you, makes you grumpy."

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Thanks for sharing this. You have a mental illness that is religious in nature, but you still have a good relationship with God.

I've also struggled with some mental illnesses, depression and schizophrenia. I used to think God was helping me overcome the depression, but my schizo symptoms wrecked my life and everything I was trying to do to combat the depression. Now the depression is back.

I feel like, if there is a God, he plays rope-a-dope with me. Just when I think I'm going to win, he's like Lucy yanking the football away from Charley Brown. I'm trying not to hate God, and to keep an open mind instead of going to full on Atheism, but I just don't see the hand of a loving God in my life or the lives of others.

I wish you well, and hope you get what you need to make things better in your life, but I want to mention that there's no mystery about this sort of thing from the atheist's viewpoint.

There's no agonizing about why a god would do this or that awful thing or wondering how a plan like this could possibly be worth it. Things like medical conditions, mental illness, and other health factors are the unfortunate but largely unavoidable side-effects of living in a world where it is possible to live at all.

It's not a god's fault, or demons, or ancient humans that disobeyed a god. We as humans can only do the best we can to make our lives better and overcome.