medical students boycotting lectures on evolution

[Wiccan_Child]

Show me this guy's viral load and CD4 counts. It's rather easy to quantify HIV infection, and quite easy to demonstrate if someone has been "healed" or not.

The tragic thing is, these people are told by their pastor they're cured, go off their medication, and die a short while after.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

The tragic thing is, these people are told by their pastor their cured, go off their medication, and die a short while after.

And because none of these people do any kind of follow-up at all, every case is a 'cure'.

 

[46AND2]

No one has been more involved in Africa than we have. Even though my part was very very little. We did not lie to anyone about anything. Also lots of people have received their miracle and they have been healed of aids.

Here is a testimony from Africa. I know people here want more than just a testimony, but this is what we have:

"My life has tremendously changed. I have stopped drinking; and I no longer sleep with prostitutes, which I used to do. This awful behavior gave me AIDS, but God is good and should be glorified all the time. I have resumed school which I had stopped. I thought that, because I was HIV/AIDS positive, there was no need for me to go to school since I was just going to die soon. Little did I know that if I would surrender my life to God and ask for forgiveness, He would forgive me, cleanse me completely and heal me. Now, I am happy because the Spirit entered my heart, telling me to write you. Completely Changed Blantyre, Malawi"

I call BS. Nobody has been cured of HIV, except for a couple of cases of people (it might be just one guy, but I vaguely remember reading about a second one) who had bone marrow transplants from donors who had the beneficial mutation that gave them resistance to HIV.

 

[Jamin4422]

The tragic thing is, these people are told by their pastor their cured, go off their medication, and die a short while after.

Doctors help who they can help, pastors help who they can help. Your right, they should not get in each others way. Your hindering people if your suggesting that Pastors can not help them. Some of those pastors have advanced degrees. They are very well qualified to help people. Although you always have to weigh out the advise that people give you.

It could be the people your talking about have two year associate degrees and are not a part of a church organization. Most denominations would not discourage their members from following their doctors advise.

 

[Jamin4422]

I call BS. Nobody has been cured of HIV, except for a couple of cases of people

We just go by the letters of testimony that people send into the ministry and there are quite a few of them. The doctors say that sometimes they get a false reading on those tests. So they tend to explain it that way.

 

[46AND2]

We just go by the letters of testimony that people send into the ministry and there are quite a few of them. The doctors say that sometimes they get a false reading on those tests. So they tend to explain it that way.

Riiigghhtt. The conspiracy thing.

Look, it really isn't hard AT ALL to prove a case of cured HIV.

Show me a case of a person who was CLEARLY infected, and then CLEARLY not infected. If there are such cases, doctors wouldn't cover it up, they would research it more to see if there was some clue to a cure.

 

[Tiberius]

What do you mean "somehow"? A virgin is pure because they have not exposed themselves to STD's.

What about if Billy and Sally lose their virginity to each other? Since they are both coming from a position of virginity, neither has been exposed to STDs, so they are both clean.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

We just go by the letters of testimony that people send into the ministry and there are quite a few of them. The doctors say that sometimes they get a false reading on those tests. So they tend to explain it that way.

You just go by "letters of testimony"? How on earth is that a reliable way of knowing?

It is incredibly easy, Jazer, to quantify someone's HIV status. You can measure, with numbers, someone's viral load and CD4 counts. We don't just do the test once, and multiple kinds of tests are often used to confirm it. And we definitely don't ask patients' pastors to let us know if they're infected or not, as opposed to actually testing them.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Doctors help who they can help, pastors help who they can help. Your right, they should not get in each others way. Your hindering people if your suggesting that Pastors can not help them. Some of those pastors have advanced degrees. They are very well qualified to help people. Although you always have to weigh out the advise that people give you.

It could be the people your talking about have two year associate degrees and are not a part of a church organization. Most denominations would not discourage their members from following their doctors advise.

Pastors should say nothing about medical issues, period. Doesn't matter if they have "advanced degrees".

 

[Trogool]

We just go by the letters of testimony that people send into the ministry and there are quite a few of them. The doctors say that sometimes they get a false reading on those tests. So they tend to explain it that way.

Yes, letters of testimony are totally reliable indicators of whether or not someone has a viral infection.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Doctors help who they can help, pastors help who they can help. Your right, they should not get in each others way. Your hindering people if your suggesting that Pastors can not help them. Some of those pastors have advanced degrees. They are very well qualified to help people. Although you always have to weigh out the advise that people give you.

It could be the people your talking about have two year associate degrees and are not a part of a church organization. Most denominations would not discourage their members from following their doctors advise.

If anything less than 100% of denominations do that, it's a travesty.

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

Why do children need blood and syringes?

Same reasons that adults do, they were ill and required medical treatment. Unfortunately for them the staff were incompetent and lacked resources.

 

[driewerf]

The tragic thing is, these people are told by their pastor their cured, go off their medication, and die a short while after.

they 're

 

[driewerf]

Doctors help who they can help, pastors help who they can help. Your right, they should not get in each others way. Your hindering people if your suggesting that Pastors can not help them. Some of those pastors have advanced degrees. They are very well qualified to help people. Although you always have to weigh out the advise that people give you.

It could be the people your talking about have two year associate degrees and are not a part of a church organization. Most denominations would not discourage their members from following their doctors advise.

you 're

 

[Wiccan_Child]

they 're

Fixed.

 

[Jamin4422]

Riiigghhtt. The conspiracy thing.

I said: "the doctors say". That means this is what the medical establishment says. I DID NOT SAY: The conspiracy people say. If you would do your research you will see the test is NOT that dependable. So skeptics and scoffers tend to say people were not healed by God, the results from the test was just not dependable. Only people test HIV positive, then they repent, turn away from their sin. God heals them and they are now HIV clean. They do not care what the skeptics and scoffers say because they are just happy that they are no longer testing HIV positive. At that point any negative attitude people have pretty much becomes like water rolling off the back of a duck. That is what it means to be set free and to become a new creation in Christ.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I said: "the doctors say". That means this is what the medical establishment says. I DID NOT SAY: The conspiracy people say. If you would do your research you will see the test is NOT that dependable. So skeptics and scoffers tend to say people were not healed by God, the results from the test was just not dependable. Only people test HIV positive, then they repent, turn away from their sin. God heals them and they are now HIV clean. They do not care what the skeptics and scoffers say because they are just happy that they are no longer testing HIV positive. At that point any negative attitude people have pretty much becomes like water rolling off the back of a duck. That is what it means to be set free and to become a new creation in Christ.

So...you don't actually test anyone, you just tell them they're cured?

 

[Jamin4422]

So...you don't actually test anyone, you just tell them they're cured?

The ministry receives lots and lots and lots of letters from people who say they were healed. So that is all we have to offer is their testimony. I am well aware that people want MORE then a testimony only that is all we have to offer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Angley?oldid=0

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

The ministry receives lots and lots and lots of letters from people who say they were healed. So that is all we have to offer is their testimony. I am well aware that people want MORE then a testimony only that is all we have to offer.

I could send a letter to the Pope saying I'm a green leprechaun. I could also get all my friends, and all my friends' friends, to send a letter corroborating my claim. That doesn't make it true.

What you have is tantamount to nothing.

 

[Jamin4422]

I could send a letter to the Pope

You could send a letter, but you do not have an airplane if you wanted to go visit him. The point is the ministry is involved in Africa to the point where they have their own airplane to get back and forth. They go places in Africa were planes this big usually do not go. What are you doing in the way of ministry to help the people in Africa? There really are people in the world that want to get out and make a difference and do what they can to help others. We try to make this world a better place to live. NO matter how tiny my part is in all of that, at least something is better then nothing.