Mecca?

[Bookofknowledge]

That story about smashing idols sounds I think like the one about Abraham in Qur'an:

http://www.islam4theworld.com/messengers/ibrahim_a.htm

and is told in Midrash as
http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_abrahamidols.htm

The father of Prophet Muhammad, Abdullah died when the Prophet was an infant so He was raised by His uncle.

The Kaaba stone was venerated as a place of pilgrimage long before Prophet Muhammad and is similar I think to the stone used by Jacob and called by him "Beth El" mentioned in Genesis.

- Art

Actually the story czach8 mentioned can be seen in the movie "The Message" and as far as my limited knowledge Prophet Muhammad (SAW) broke idols on the conquest of Mecca not before that and none of Prophet's Uncle ever mentioned of him sneaking objects which didn't blong to him neither he ever stolen anything from his uncles - why do you think people of Mecca called my bloved Prophet "The Trust worthy"...

 

[czach8]

Actually the story czach8 mentioned can be seen in the movie "The Message" and as far as my limited knowledge Prophet Muhammad (SAW) broke idols on the conquest of Mecca not before that and none of Prophet's Uncle ever mentioned of him sneaking objects which didn't blong to him neither he ever stolen anything from his uncles - why do you think people of Mecca called my bloved Prophet "The Trust worthy"...

Well actually brother I did see the movie "Message", and I enjoyed it. You are right though, I did get that instance from the movie. I had no idea the movie was fictionalized to some certain degree. That is too bad. Peace.

 

[Arthra]

Yes... I think most of us are aware that it was after the entry into Mekka by the Prophet that the idols in Kaaba were destroyed and that Ali assisted Him in carrying this out...this in a way culminated the triumph of the Prophet and God's Will to restore the ancient Kaaba to it's original worship under Abraham. Prior to that the pagans were in control and had set up their various idols.

- Art

 

[MercuryAndy]

Yes... I think most of us are aware that it was after the entry into Mekka by the Prophet that the idols in Kaaba were destroyed and that Ali assisted Him in carrying this out...this in a way culminated the triumph of the Prophet and God's Will to restore the ancient Kaaba to it's original worship under Abraham. Prior to that the pagans were in control and had set up their various idols.

- Art

so the cube is bad?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes... I think most of us are aware that it was after the entry into Mekka by the Prophet that the idols in Kaaba were destroyed and that Ali assisted Him in carrying this out...this in a way culminated the triumph of the Prophet and God's Will to restore the ancient Kaaba to it's original worship under Abraham. Prior to that the pagans were in control and had set up their various idols.

- Art

Hi. I believe Paul and the Apostles had to contend with pretty much the same thing when trying to convert the "pagans" to the LORD and His Christ in the Bible. He even called them "religious" even though they worshipped a pagan god. Interesting.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 "for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.

http://ourworld.cs.com/preteristabcs/id84.htm

.................The Thessalonian church was comprised primarily of Gentile converts from the pagan cults of Dionysus, Zeus, Asclepius, Aphrodite, Demeter, and perhaps most important, the cult of Cabirus. They were converts from a social and religious milieu in which gods and demons were understood to have control over virtually all aspects of life. "Threatened by powers and demons, by illnesses and unforeseen strokes of fate, one lived in suspense and fear and felt subject to overpowering forces against which one could not assert oneself."...............

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

Why aren't i allowed in mecca?

Makkah is hallowed ground to muslims, what in the world does a non-muslim want to go there for and for what purpose ?

Makkah is "sanctified" for muslim religious practice.

I dont think it has anything to do with "prejudice", but "preservation", as some have suggested whom obviously lack in what G-d in the past had decreed in the Torah to the Jews about non jews entering into their own sanctified land.

If those of you think it is prejudice cause we want to preserve what is hallowed and made sanctume then all of you are prejudice with anything that you want to preserve.

 

[Raul7]

Only argue with the People of the Book in the kindest way - except in the case of those of them who do wrong - saying, "We believe in what has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you. Our God and your God are one and we submit to Him." (Qur'an, 29:46)

I think we should leave it at that.

 

[MercuryAndy]

Only argue with the People of the Book in the kindest way - except in the case of those of them who do wrong - saying, "We believe in what has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you. Our God and your God are one and we submit to Him." (Qur'an, 29:46)

I think we should leave it at that.

yes. so if the quran wants me to go to mecca then god wants me to go to mecca. therfor i should be allowed into mecca.

 

[Arthra]

Andy:

There are probably a number of places on this earth where you cannot go ...

Some temples require a degree of belief and behaviour before you can enter them. I don't insist they admit me because it would be poor etiquette on my part to insist.

I can meet with them outside their temple anyway..

There are probably areas of your own government that would not permit you to enter as you do not have proper clearances due to security standards.

Try going on a military base without proper clearance..or attend a lecture at university if you are not a registered student.

You probably would not be able to have high tea with the Queen either. The Golf course where I live requires slacks and ties...and so on.

- Art

 

[MercuryAndy]

Andy:

There are probably a number of places on this earth where you cannot go ...

Some temples require a degree of belief and behaviour before you can enter them. I don't insist they admit me because it would be poor etiquette on my part to insist.

I can meet with them outside their temple anyway..

There are probably areas of your own government that would not permit you to enter as you do not have proper clearances due to security standards.

Try going on a military base without proper clearance..or attend a lecture at university if you are not a registered student.

You probably would not be able to have high tea with the Queen either. The Golf course where I live requires slacks and ties...and so on.

- Art

I could go in to the military base if i realy wanted. I do rule the world after all.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

I could go in to the military base if i realy wanted.

And see places only you were permitted to do so. Like public attractions on post etc. However this topic doesn't have much to do with military base clearance issue.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

yes. so if the quran wants me to go to mecca then god wants me to go to mecca. therfor i should be allowed into mecca.

It's interesting to read that "Your God wants you to go to Mecca" - Why?

On what ground your justifying it's a holy place for you to be there? Is there a posibility that your God wants you to becoome a Muslim?

 

[czach8]

And see places only you were permitted to do so. Like public attractions on post etc. However this topic doesn't have much to do with military base clearance issue.

I agree.

 

[czach8]

Only argue with the People of the Book in the kindest way - except in the case of those of them who do wrong - saying, "We believe in what has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you. Our God and your God are one and we submit to Him." (Qur'an, 29:46)

I think we should leave it at that.

If this is the case, then what is wrong with the Trinity?

 

[Raul7]

If this is the case, then what is wrong with the Trinity?

"People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.' Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171).

 

[MercuryAndy]

It's interesting to read that "Your God wants you to go to Mecca" - Why?

On what ground your justifying it's a holy place for you to be there? Is there a posibility that your God wants you to becoome a Muslim?

if god wants me to be a muslem then i would be a muslim.

but you said the quran says god wants people to go to mecca. So why wont they let me in. Are they better than god?

 

[czach8]

"People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.' Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171).

Quran (2:62) says: “Lo! Those who believe, and those who are Jews, Christians, and Sabeans- whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Days and doeth right, surely their reward is with the Lord, and there sure no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve”.

So why does this verse say Christians, Jews, and Sabeans will be rewarded? It sounds as if there is nothing wrong with the Trinity unless the interpretation of my verse is erroneous. However, the Islam is obvious faced with a contradiction.

Peace.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.' (Quran 4:171).

I think muslims should also cite the version of translation in their verses.

As far as I know, Quran's arabic doesn't say "God is a Trinity" It simply says "say not THREE"...

Christians NEVER said God is THREE or there are THREE Gods.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Quran (2:62) says: “Lo! Those who believe, and those who are Jews, Christians, and Sabeans- whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Days and doeth right, surely their reward is with the Lord, and there sure no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve”.

So why does this verse say Christians, Jews, and Sabeans will be rewarded? It sounds as if there is nothing wrong with the Trinity unless the interpretation of my verse is erroneous. However, the Islam is obvious faced with a contradiction.

Peace.

You have to make sure if the verse is abrogated or not.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

if god wants me to be a muslem then i would be a muslim.

but you said the quran says god wants people to go to mecca. So why wont they let me in. Are they better than god?

Those who associate partners with Allah are not allowed to visit Mecca.

Do you associate partners with God as He is incapable of Might or perhaps He need children or partners to control His Creation?