Meat and Dairy industry

[porlino87]

These may be more relevant, e.g.


This statement along with the others are quite vague.

 

[Mr Dave]

These may be more relevant, e.g.


This statement along with the others are quite vague.

One of the other Acts of Parliament didn't seem to say much. Those two gave legally binding specifications regarding the welfare of animals.

 

[porlino87]

As far as I know anyway.

I wish it was like that here....its still well known that factory farms are the norm.

 

[Mr Dave]

That's a shame

 

[drich0150]

Yes I agree about the economic balance argument. It is obvious that this change would have to be slow.

Even if we were to change what miracle crop are you suggesting we plant that will sustain everyone that will produce year round?

And yes, you can show me links that meat is good for you. But, if you can be healthy without it, why not?

Because meat can sustain us when plants will not grow. which is 1/3 of our year.

And I'm sure you realize that obesity one of the top preventable causes of death in this country, so I'm sure most people will be better off without meat.

Eating plant matter is not a guarantee that obesity will not still be an epidemic problem. Cows eat plant matter and they can produce excessive fat stores just as a human could on plant matter.. Or are you saying simply because if the Us shifted to just eating plant matter their simply would not be enough food to go around.

With regards to the Corn feeding issue, yes I agree that corn (and soy) is the most cost efficient way to feed animals. Although efficient and easy to grow, my argument is that meat and dairy is not necessary for our health, and these crops could grow other foods that is healthy and digestible by humans, thus bypassing the inefficient livestock industry.

conveniently your "argument over looks the fact that out "heart land" is only suitable for producing hearty feed stocks. In other words we can up root the corn and soy and plant green beans and cabbage because the ground will not support a profitable yield in these crops.

If the farmer can not make money then He will not farm those crops. Meaning if it takes twice as much water, fertilizer, land, and labor not to mention a much shorter growing season to produce the same kind of money he will be bankrupt by the end of the season. There is a reason these men/companies do not grow the higher yielding crops in their fields now. (It is not practical.) So they plant corn and soy because it needs very little water or care when compared to other crops.

I'm not saying "welfare of animals over people" I'm just saying, "Welfare of animals" - period! Given this country's obesity rates, less meat might even do some good.

And, i am saying with out cheap meat you are INDEED Choosing the welfare of an animal over that of a person.

"Life is a dirty business. In order for something to live, something else must die" -

yes but it doesn't have to be a living, breathing animal.

Apparently in this country and 98% of all other it does.

What would Christ think if he took a tour of the biggest slaughterhouse in the nation?

Do you believe He needs a tour to know what is going on inside? Do you not understand that animal brutality and slaughter is not something invented by slaughter houses or factory farming? I did not grow up in a traditional western home where the children were lead to believe that "meat" came from the store. We learned to kill and butcher our food very young. This was absolutely no different than what Christ was expected to do himself when the opportunity presented itself. In fact Some methods of biblically instructed slaughter are a sight more brutal and cruel that a pneumatic hammer slug to the head that instantly kills the animal.

I see your argument, and I agree with it. If the meat and dairy industry disappeared overnight, yes the economy will collapse. What I'm saying, is there needs to be awareness and education on this principle. The change must be slow.

What you continually fail to address is the miracle crop that we can plant that will sustain 500+ million people that will not cost any more than what food does now. Not to mention you have not addressed how to get a culture of carnivores to give up their meat.. Are you suggesting a government run by the state that forces people to eat as you do? What of those who do not want to eat as you do and continual to slaughter animals to eat what do you say we do with them?

These factory farms are disgusting, they pump the animals full of hormones and antibiotics, the animals don't see daylight and are crammed in tight spaces, they are forced to breed and produce offspring just so they can be taken away from the mothers,

Have you even been to a "Factory farm" because it sounds like you are describing two or three different links in the process. For instance Cows are raised in pastures (the one you see on the side of the road) till they get to a healthy slaughter weight. (This is the extent of a factory farm. what happens next is apart of the slaughtering process) then are shipped to a holding facility where they get vaccinated and deloused. They stay here from 3 to 6 months getting fattened up, then they get slaughtered.

the workers at these factories have negative psychological consequences seeing so much brutality. Please watch some videos of these factory farms and you might change your mind.

Uh, no. Someone like you might PTSD from visiting a place like this but the people who work their simply turn it off or find another job.

When I eat meat, I close my eyes. I don't want to think about the suffering animals because I don't have to. The job was done somewhere else and it wasn't my responsibility. I just enjoy my burger. I am realizing that this is not healthy anymore.

No one is telling you what you should or should not eat (I wish I could say the same about your self righteous argument) If you believe it to be a sin then do not eat meat, but do not cause your brother to stumble who has no choice but to raise his family on the blessing of cheap meat we have in this country.

 

[drich0150]

Sorry if the thread has strayed from the original post. Let me just clarify the reason why I am posting this topic on Christian Forums. I have been christian all my life, and I just realized that I disagree with the meat and dairy industries from all points of view. I realized that religion gave me a set of rules to follow, and if I followed those I would be fine. Unfortunately, religion gives little room for social change because we are following what a human said 2 thousand years ago. Factory farms did not exist back then. This is a new problem, and I blame my religion for blinding me from it.

Perhaps you should have opened you bible and looked at those rules alittle harder:
Romans14:
1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

 

[drich0150]

Because I know that I suffer when I cut myself. I know that my dog suffers when I poke it with a knife. Animals are social creatures, they need space to be happy.

Have you ever had chickens or any animals besides a dog or a cat? If you give chickens free reign they will wander but always in a group. You may get some strays but for the most part they stay together. At night they all cram together in a coop of their own free will.

Factory farms keep them in tight spaces, they force them to breed, they take away their offspring for veal.

Then don't eat veal. If their isn't a market then it won't be done.

Chickens have their beaks cut off so that they do not harm other chickens in their cages.

Uh, no.. Also know KFC didn't engineer a chicken with 6 legs for the extra drumsticks. No beek, no eat. No eat, skinny chickens. Skinny chicken no profit. No profit no reason to be in business. It sounds like you watched the Food Inc. documentary. The problem and or benefit with things like that (depending on your preferences) is that they do all of your thinking for you. Package it in a no more than 2 hour presentation and do not mind bending the truth or only showing the worst of the worst to get you to side with their propaganda. May i make a suggestion go out and do your own research and do not let the Micheal moor's of this world tell you how to feel or think.

My industry is tied to the food production industry Crops and meat and I have seen deplorable conditions in both facilities and I've seen immaculate facilities as well. They all have two things in common. It all comes down to who is running the place and money/profit. If either are in short supply then the product suffers. (no matter what is being processed)

 

[orangelight]

Most people know that the USA eats a lot of meat and dairy. Most know about factory farming. Factory farms keep animals in tight spaces with limited daylight, use them for their eggs or slice them up. If these factories had glass walls, people would change their minds about supporting this industry. Its a bloody mess. Billions of animals are slaughtered a year.

We should be good people right? We should be good to animals, and limit their suffering. After all the pain and suffering these animals go through, I can't believe most christians will say something like "God put them there for us".

Please don't respond with some ancient bible mumbo jumbo, for that book was written in times of no factory farms, no mass animal suffering and murder. Back then, killing an animal was a personal thing, where the slayer took responsibility. Things have changed and it is wrong to treat animals like they do in factory farms.

I completely agree with you, pain, fear and suffering are the same whatever the body we are wearing, we need to treat them with compassion, love and in an ethical behavior instead of harming and killing them or causing to them any sort of misery, pain,horror and injustice. I can't believe in a person who says he's against violence, injustice and eats meat.

 

[razeontherock]

I love animals. Especially with the right seasoning.

Your reasoning applied without hypocrisy is the highest step of Jainism; starving yourself to death because anything you eat is at the expense of another. It ain't God's way.

Oh and if you wish to post in this sub-forum, rules state that you need to start your own thread. Doing so on this topic would hardly be "exploring Christianity," though it could be considered a "struggle by non Christians."

 

[orangelight]

I love animals. Especially with the right seasoning.

Your reasoning applied without hypocrisy is the highest step of Jainism; starving yourself to death because anything you eat is at the expense of another. It ain't God's way.

Oh and if you wish to post in this sub-forum, rules state that you need to start your own thread. Doing so on this topic would hardly be "exploring Christianity," though it could be considered a "struggle by non Christians."

You are not going to starve to death if you stop eating animals.
Humans have alternative non-violent way of living which is healthy too.
Many lived and are living entire their lives without eating meat or consuming animal products (It is not a necessity).

I think this is not only a matter of Jainism or Ahimsa, I consider this to be a matter of compassion, pity, non-violence and ethics.

People who don't use animal products are not starving to death.

 

[Faulty]

I think this is not only a matter of Jainism or Ahimsa, I consider this to be a matter of compassion, pity, non-violence and ethics.

I guess it's too bad then that animals weren't created with these traits, because their brutality is far above ours, and they couldn't care less.

 

[dbcsf]

Most people know that the USA eats a lot of meat and dairy. Most know about factory farming. Factory farms keep animals in tight spaces with limited daylight, use them for their eggs or slice them up. If these factories had glass walls, people would change their minds about supporting this industry. Its a bloody mess. Billions of animals are slaughtered a year.

We should be good people right? We should be good to animals, and limit their suffering. After all the pain and suffering these animals go through, I can't believe most christians will say something like "God put them there for us".

Please don't respond with some ancient bible mumbo jumbo, for that book was written in times of no factory farms, no mass animal suffering and murder. Back then, killing an animal was a personal thing, where the slayer took responsibility. Things have changed and it is wrong to treat animals like they do in factory farms.

The deeper issue is about the current philosophy of our country. I would like to think that in times past Americans balanced their profit motive with Christian morals.

Our constitution guarantees our right to pursue "happiness". Happiness in 16th and 17th century vernacular is translated as "fulfillment" (as opposed to pleasure). Generally people were expected to treat each other and the world we live in with Christian respect; respecting people's intrinsic spiritual value and the value of a world created good by a loving God. There are many historical instances which disprove this historical memory, but at least is is an ideal to aim for.

Currently capitalism seems to be without morals. Partially this may be secondary to the cultural trend away from Christianity. Capitalism without some kind of moral restraint or guidance (as with any other system of government) is basically evil. Currently anything seems to be justified in order to maximize the financial return to the stockholders.