Maybe We Have This All Wrong!

[Jim Electronic]

Once again, I find myself at the end of a "slap in the face", "kick in the teeth", or whatever phraseology you wish to use to define this...spending long periods in prayer and fasting for God to intervene in a situation where I can do nothing and the matter just keeps getting worse and worse. Over and over, devout Christians are told to pray about their problems. "God is listening!", they are told. They get their hopes up and then what happens? As an example, lets say right now 100,000 Christians are laying in the hospital with cancer with many, if not all being prayed for. How many of them will suddenly go into remission? You know the answer! If the prayers were answered, many of them would! That fact alone would be proof positive God is listening, God has mercy and God healed them! You know what will happen. Maybe a few will go into remission and those few are simply NOT proof God answered those prayers. Christians are given the pep talk to pray and they do with the end result being no answer or things get worse. Those Christians go away discouraged, feeling deceived or like me, feel as I wasted my time because He wasn't about to lift a finger in the first place. Lets skip the usual Christian platitudes here. How do we know God even cares about us? As a father, if I had a son and he asked me for help, I'd be there. I'd do something. There would be no doubt in my son's mind I heard him. God may have heard and answered prayers of a few select people who were part of the establishment of mankind thru the history of the Bible, but how about NOW? I've been in this Christian life long enough now to realize most if not all of your praying is an exercise in futility. You may make yourself feel good for a few minutes, but that's about all will happen. I've swallowed the platitudes, read the books, heard the preachers. God is not listening. God does not care about our situations (meaning legitimate matters, not praying for a $200,000 car), we have been left alone here and He has shown very convincing evidence He is playing "hands off".

 

[~Zao~]

Once again, I find myself at the end of a "slap in the face", "kick in the teeth", or whatever phraseology you wish to use to define this...spending long periods in prayer and fasting for God to intervene in a situation where I can do nothing and the matter just keeps getting worse and worse. Over and over, devout Christians are told to pray about their problems. "God is listening!", they are told. They get their hopes up and then what happens? As an example, lets say right now 100,000 Christians are laying in the hospital with cancer with many, if not all being prayed for. How many of them will suddenly go into remission? You know the answer! If the prayers were answered, many of them would! That fact alone would be proof positive God is listening, God has mercy and God healed them! You know what will happen. Maybe a few will go into remission and those few are simply NOT proof God answered those prayers. Christians are given the pep talk to pray and they do with the end result being no answer or things get worse. Those Christians go away discouraged, feeling deceived or like me, feel as I wasted my time because He wasn't about to lift a finger in the first place. Lets skip the usual Christian platitudes here. How do we know God even cares about us? As a father, if I had a son and he asked me for help, I'd be there. I'd do something. There would be no doubt in my son's mind I heard him. God may have heard and answered prayers of a few select people who were part of the establishment of mankind thru the history of the Bible, but how about NOW? I've been in this Christian life long enough now to realize most if not all of your praying is an exercise in futility. You may make yourself feel good for a few minutes, but that's about all will happen. I've swallowed the platitudes, read the books, heard the preachers. God is not listening. God does not care about our situations (meaning legitimate matters, not praying for a $200,000 car), we have been left alone hear and He has shown very convincing evidence He is playing "hands off".

Like gravity there is the law of cause and effect that only a miracle can overcome. What your talking about is belief in miracles, not the Creator. Iow God didn't create the problem.

 

[Seadish]

He never once promised to make it easy He promised to be with us absolutely everyone has problems someone once told me that all of life's challenges were just a way for us to grow! Those who seemingly have less issues in my experience never needed to get closer to our God

 

[Greg J.]

@Jim Electronic, what was the longest fast you had? How did you physically feel going through it? When were you able to eat normally after you stopped?

 

[Halbhh]

Once again, I find myself at the end of a "slap in the face", "kick in the teeth", or whatever phraseology you wish to use to define this...spending long periods in prayer and fasting for God to intervene in a situation where I can do nothing and the matter just keeps getting worse and worse. Over and over, devout Christians are told to pray about their problems. "God is listening!", they are told. They get their hopes up and then what happens? As an example, lets say right now 100,000 Christians are laying in the hospital with cancer with many, if not all being prayed for. How many of them will suddenly go into remission? You know the answer! If the prayers were answered, many of them would! That fact alone would be proof positive God is listening, God has mercy and God healed them! You know what will happen. Maybe a few will go into remission and those few are simply NOT proof God answered those prayers. Christians are given the pep talk to pray and they do with the end result being no answer or things get worse. Those Christians go away discouraged, feeling deceived or like me, feel as I wasted my time because He wasn't about to lift a finger in the first place. Lets skip the usual Christian platitudes here. How do we know God even cares about us? As a father, if I had a son and he asked me for help, I'd be there. I'd do something. There would be no doubt in my son's mind I heard him. God may have heard and answered prayers of a few select people who were part of the establishment of mankind thru the history of the Bible, but how about NOW? I've been in this Christian life long enough now to realize most if not all of your praying is an exercise in futility. You may make yourself feel good for a few minutes, but that's about all will happen. I've swallowed the platitudes, read the books, heard the preachers. God is not listening. God does not care about our situations (meaning legitimate matters, not praying for a $200,000 car), we have been left alone here and He has shown very convincing evidence He is playing "hands off".

And then there are such unambiguous things as these:

(allow a few seconds for the link to jump to the post #)
CMV: the Bible is entirely a human artifact

Last paragraph of this:
CMV: the Bible is entirely a human artifact

and more if you'd like.

See, the way prayer is answered is according to the way Christ said. What did Christ say? You can learn easily, by reading in the gospels. He said several key things about how to pray, and there are at least half a dozen I know I need to do, and they are scattered in the 4 gospels. But for instance, one key one is in Mark chapter 11. How many have that kind of faith though? Well, on different days we may have different states of mind, because just like Peter, we can be at times in faith and other times faltering. But over time, you can begin to more and more trust and follow Christ's words, and that's a rock where you can know you'll make it (Matthew 7:24-27).

 

[HTacianas]

Once again, I find myself at the end of a "slap in the face", "kick in the teeth", or whatever phraseology you wish to use to define this...spending long periods in prayer and fasting for God to intervene in a situation where I can do nothing and the matter just keeps getting worse and worse. Over and over, devout Christians are told to pray about their problems. "God is listening!", they are told. They get their hopes up and then what happens? As an example, lets say right now 100,000 Christians are laying in the hospital with cancer with many, if not all being prayed for. How many of them will suddenly go into remission? You know the answer! If the prayers were answered, many of them would! That fact alone would be proof positive God is listening, God has mercy and God healed them! You know what will happen. Maybe a few will go into remission and those few are simply NOT proof God answered those prayers. Christians are given the pep talk to pray and they do with the end result being no answer or things get worse. Those Christians go away discouraged, feeling deceived or like me, feel as I wasted my time because He wasn't about to lift a finger in the first place. Lets skip the usual Christian platitudes here. How do we know God even cares about us? As a father, if I had a son and he asked me for help, I'd be there. I'd do something. There would be no doubt in my son's mind I heard him. God may have heard and answered prayers of a few select people who were part of the establishment of mankind thru the history of the Bible, but how about NOW? I've been in this Christian life long enough now to realize most if not all of your praying is an exercise in futility. You may make yourself feel good for a few minutes, but that's about all will happen. I've swallowed the platitudes, read the books, heard the preachers. God is not listening. God does not care about our situations (meaning legitimate matters, not praying for a $200,000 car), we have been left alone here and He has shown very convincing evidence He is playing "hands off".

Let's not fall into the trap of believing that God answers our prayers to suit us. Jesus healed a blind man once and gave the reason for doing it:

Jhn 9:3 - ...but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

It's frustrating I know to pray for some thing or another and those prayers seemingly go unanswered. There is a reason for it. Perhaps even more frustrating is the fact that I don't know what that reason is. I only know that prayers are not answered solely for our benefit, but that the power of God might be revealed through it.

 

[Halbhh]

Let's not fall into the trap of believing that God answers our prayers to suit us. Jesus healed a blind man once and gave the reason for doing it:

Jhn 9:3 - ...but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

It's frustrating I know to pray for some thing or another and those prayers seemingly go unanswered. There is a reason for it. Perhaps even more frustrating is the fact that I don't know what that reason is. I only know that prayers are not answered solely for our benefit, but that the power of God might be revealed through it.

Christ said to us several things about prayer, scattered in the 4 gospels, and by reading through you will learn them over time, and it's clear several of them are critical, such as for instance what is in Mark chapter 11. I trust Him. If you trust Him, you believe what He said. I found out it works precisely the way He said it would work. That makes sense, right? Now, Mark chapter 11 isn't the only place, and there is more than just one key instruction. He expects us to listen to Him. (John chapter 10) That would mean we'd want to learn all He said to us.

 

[Jim Electronic]

THE ANSWER TO UNANSWERED PRAYER

When you do not receive the answer to your prayer, fellow Christians are prone to the usual responses...
"It was not God's timing"...Instead of His intervention, more abuse being heaped on children is proper timing, right? "His ways are not our ways"...Sure, us wanting someone healed of cancer is not a Godly desire! "You have to be persistent in your praying" ...If God hears you and cares for you, why do you need to pester Him when He knows your concern the first seconds of the first prayer? "God loves when you reach out to Him in impossible situations"...That's nice. How come the "impossible situation" gets worse when you pray? "You just need to have faith"...OK, that's also nice. You know He designed and built you and this universe so intervening in a family situation where children are being abused is a very simple problem for Him to solve. You know He can do it but WILL he do it? Guess what? You know that answer!

I'm not being disrespectful here. I have a feeling we are being fed a pack of lies by organized Christianity. He is God. He can do anything. He did miraculous things "back then". He isn't doing them NOW as He has declared "Hands off!"

 

[~Zao~]

THE ANSWER TO UNANSWERED PRAYER

When you do not receive the answer to your prayer, fellow Christians are prone to the usual responses...
"It was not God's timing"...Instead of His intervention, more abuse being heaped on children is proper timing, right? "His ways are not our ways"...Sure, us wanting someone healed of cancer is not a Godly desire! "You have to be persistent in your praying" ...If God hears you and cares for you, why do you need to pester Him when He knows your concern the first seconds of the first prayer? "God loves when you reach out to Him in impossible situations"...That's nice. How come the "impossible situation" gets worse when you pray? "You just need to have faith"...OK, that's also nice. You know He designed and built you and this universe so intervening in a family situation where children are being abused is a very simple problem for Him to solve. You know He can do it but WILL he do it? Guess what? You know that answer!

I'm not being disrespectful here. I have a feeling we are being fed a pack of lies by organized Christianity. He is God. He can do anything. He did miraculous things "back then". He isn't doing them NOW as He has declared "Hands off!"

Prosperity gospel, or manifest destiny of the things belonging to God, as some call it, does say some weird things. But God does say that He hears the prayers of those who believe with their whole hearts. Some He answers by proxy through other's prayers too. The prayers of a grandmother could save from many troubles.

 

[HTacianas]

Christ said to us several things about prayer, scattered in the 4 gospels, and by reading through you will learn them over time, and it's clear several of them are critical, such as for instance what is in Mark chapter 11. I trust Him. If you trust Him, you believe what He said. I found out it works precisely the way He said it would work. That makes sense, right? Now, Mark chapter 11 isn't the only place, and there is more than just one key instruction. He expects us to listen to Him. (John chapter 10) That would mean we'd want to learn all He said to us.

Thank you. I've read the gospels.

 

[RaymondG]

Once again, I find myself at the end of a "slap in the face", "kick in the teeth", or whatever phraseology you wish to use to define this...spending long periods in prayer and fasting for God to intervene in a situation where I can do nothing and the matter just keeps getting worse and worse. Over and over, devout Christians are told to pray about their problems. "God is listening!", they are told. They get their hopes up and then what happens? As an example, lets say right now 100,000 Christians are laying in the hospital with cancer with many, if not all being prayed for. How many of them will suddenly go into remission? You know the answer! If the prayers were answered, many of them would! That fact alone would be proof positive God is listening, God has mercy and God healed them! You know what will happen. Maybe a few will go into remission and those few are simply NOT proof God answered those prayers. Christians are given the pep talk to pray and they do with the end result being no answer or things get worse. Those Christians go away discouraged, feeling deceived or like me, feel as I wasted my time because He wasn't about to lift a finger in the first place. Lets skip the usual Christian platitudes here. How do we know God even cares about us? As a father, if I had a son and he asked me for help, I'd be there. I'd do something. There would be no doubt in my son's mind I heard him. God may have heard and answered prayers of a few select people who were part of the establishment of mankind thru the history of the Bible, but how about NOW? I've been in this Christian life long enough now to realize most if not all of your praying is an exercise in futility. You may make yourself feel good for a few minutes, but that's about all will happen. I've swallowed the platitudes, read the books, heard the preachers. God is not listening. God does not care about our situations (meaning legitimate matters, not praying for a $200,000 car), we have been left alone here and He has shown very convincing evidence He is playing "hands off".

Yes many people are told to pray......yet few people are taught how to pray and even few are humble enough to ask How to pray. The disciples lived with Christ, spoke to Him directly....yet still needed to ask "teach us HOW to pray"

We should also practice praying when times are good....when there is not direct pressure....no illness.....as it is hard to start learning how to pray....when your mind is heavy with grief and anxiety....

You learn to drive on empty streets in early morning hours..not on the busy highway in the dark. And it you crash because you prefer to start driving on the highway, you cant blame others......

 

[Jim Electronic]

@Jim Electronic, what was the longest fast you had? How did you physically feel going through it? When were you able to eat normally after you stopped?

I did three days a week every week. A few times I started feeling weak during the end of the second day. The physical change which surprised me was starting the second day, I would need to urinate more than normal. My Christian doctor could not give me a reason for that. Eating after the fast was normal. One thing to remember is "they" say you are to pray about the problem you are dealing with as the hunger pangs exist. As time went on, the problem I was fasting and praying about just got worse.

 

[Halbhh]

Thank you. I've read the gospels.

I haven't been able to find any instance of me doing what He said and it not working. Not even one. And I've done not only a lot of praying, but also did a lot of testing back when I didn't yet believe. When something is like 25/25 or 390/390 then you know it's reliable. It's not chance. It's not luck, etc. God isn't capricious. But the words Christ said, He meant them. They can't be set aside (as is most commonly done), and a person expect that to work out.

 

[Jim Electronic]

Like gravity there is the law of cause and effect that only a miracle can overcome. What your talking about is belief in miracles, not the Creator. Iow God didn't create the problem.

That's correct! God did not create the problem. Sinful people did. We are told to ask Him for help because we believe in Him and He can do anything! I have no doubt about THAT. However, He did nothing in this case.

 

[Jim Electronic]

Yes many people are told to pray......yet few people are taught how to pray and even few are humble enough to ask How to pray. The disciples lived with Christ, spoke to Him directly....yet still needed to ask "teach us HOW to pray"

We should also practice praying when times are good....when there is not direct pressure....no illness.....as it is hard to start learning how to pray....when your mind is heavy with grief and anxiety....

You learn to drive on empty streets in early morning hours..not on the busy highway in the dark. And it you crash because you prefer to start driving on the highway, you cant blame others......

 

[GTW27]

Once again, I find myself at the end of a "slap in the face", "kick in the teeth", or whatever phraseology you wish to use to define this...spending long periods in prayer and fasting for God to intervene in a situation where I can do nothing and the matter just keeps getting worse and worse. Over and over, devout Christians are told to pray about their problems. "God is listening!", they are told. They get their hopes up and then what happens? As an example, lets say right now 100,000 Christians are laying in the hospital with cancer with many, if not all being prayed for. How many of them will suddenly go into remission? You know the answer! If the prayers were answered, many of them would! That fact alone would be proof positive God is listening, God has mercy and God healed them! You know what will happen. Maybe a few will go into remission and those few are simply NOT proof God answered those prayers. Christians are given the pep talk to pray and they do with the end result being no answer or things get worse. Those Christians go away discouraged, feeling deceived or like me, feel as I wasted my time because He wasn't about to lift a finger in the first place. Lets skip the usual Christian platitudes here. How do we know God even cares about us? As a father, if I had a son and he asked me for help, I'd be there. I'd do something. There would be no doubt in my son's mind I heard him. God may have heard and answered prayers of a few select people who were part of the establishment of mankind thru the history of the Bible, but how about NOW? I've been in this Christian life long enough now to realize most if not all of your praying is an exercise in futility. You may make yourself feel good for a few minutes, but that's about all will happen. I've swallowed the platitudes, read the books, heard the preachers. God is not listening. God does not care about our situations (meaning legitimate matters, not praying for a $200,000 car), we have been left alone here and He has shown very convincing evidence He is playing "hands off".

A sparrow does not even fall to the ground, without Him knowing, nor does a petal fall from a flower, without Him being aware of it. If one truly is His, He Knows their petition, even before they ask. Believe what He has promised, and it will come to pass.

 

[RaymondG]

Let's not fall into the trap of believing that God answers our prayers to suit us. Jesus healed a blind man once and gave the reason for doing it:

The bible said to ask and you shall receive, that your joy may be full. Delight thyself also in the Lord: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart."

who do you believe our prayers suit?

It's frustrating I know to pray for some thing or another and those prayers seemingly go unanswered. There is a reason for it. Perhaps even more frustrating is the fact that I don't know what that reason is. I only know that prayers are not answered solely for our benefit, but that the power of God might be revealed through it.

No prayer should be followed with frustration......if it is....then this is why it isnt answered......as it would be against the method for praying....defined in the Gospels....

 

[Jim Electronic]

Yes many people are told to pray......yet few people are taught how to pray and even few are humble enough to ask How to pray. The disciples lived with Christ, spoke to Him directly....yet still needed to ask "teach us HOW to pray"

We should also practice praying when times are good....when there is not direct pressure....no illness.....as it is hard to start learning how to pray....when your mind is heavy with grief and anxiety....

You learn to drive on empty streets in early morning hours..not on the busy highway in the dark. And it you crash because you prefer to start driving on the highway, you cant blame others......

Absolutely! Like a relationship with a human father, you should talk to him when times are good and bad because your father is not a vending machine which you go to when you want something! When you talk to your human father, its nothing flowery, stilted or formal. You open up your mouth and talk. One thing more, you don't say "father" in every second sentence which seems to be a ridiculous "technique" of too many Christians!

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I just read a great thread just yesterday about someone's dog getting healed (not heeled, if that's what you're thinking).

The shock and dismay comes not from God having not healed people, for God heals and chooses not to heal many people. Rather, your dismay comes from God not healing you, or doing what you asked. It's the "why me?" reaction. It's perfectly normal.

You asked God for something. He refused, as was his right. I think much could be learned from your reaction. There are those who humbly accept God's right to do as he chooses, which includes not only miracles but everyday circumstances, and then there are those who shake their fist at God and threaten to fire him, finding some other deity, or kill him, becoming an atheist.

Ultimately, God hardly cares about your problem, which is fleeting with respect to eternity, but he does care about you. That can be good or bad, depending on the final assessment.

 

[bcbsr]

Once again, I find myself at the end of a "slap in the face", "kick in the teeth", or whatever phraseology you wish to use to define this...spending long periods in prayer and fasting for God to intervene in a situation where I can do nothing and the matter just keeps getting worse and worse. Over and over, devout Christians are told to pray about their problems. "God is listening!", they are told. They get their hopes up and then what happens? As an example, lets say right now 100,000 Christians are laying in the hospital with cancer with many, if not all being prayed for. How many of them will suddenly go into remission? You know the answer! If the prayers were answered, many of them would! That fact alone would be proof positive God is listening, God has mercy and God healed them! You know what will happen. Maybe a few will go into remission and those few are simply NOT proof God answered those prayers. Christians are given the pep talk to pray and they do with the end result being no answer or things get worse. Those Christians go away discouraged, feeling deceived or like me, feel as I wasted my time because He wasn't about to lift a finger in the first place. Lets skip the usual Christian platitudes here. How do we know God even cares about us? As a father, if I had a son and he asked me for help, I'd be there. I'd do something. There would be no doubt in my son's mind I heard him. God may have heard and answered prayers of a few select people who were part of the establishment of mankind thru the history of the Bible, but how about NOW? I've been in this Christian life long enough now to realize most if not all of your praying is an exercise in futility. You may make yourself feel good for a few minutes, but that's about all will happen. I've swallowed the platitudes, read the books, heard the preachers. God is not listening. God does not care about our situations (meaning legitimate matters, not praying for a $200,000 car), we have been left alone here and He has shown very convincing evidence He is playing "hands off".

"God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Rom 5:8

The suffering a lot of Christians experience these days are nothing compared to the sufferings Paul and early Christians went through. Yet they continued to trust in God because God didn't promise them life would be easy or comfortable. In fact God promised that they would suffer. So, don't become a Christian if your sole objective is to experience freedom from suffering in this life. Christianity is only for those who trust God despite circumstances.