Maybe We Have This All Wrong!

[Stormy]

Op... I am sorry but perhaps you have God confused with Santa Claus

God does not always smooth the road but he will carry us in the hard times.

 

[~Zao~]

Did somebody sat recess!!!!!!!!!!!! Peace at last

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Once again, I find myself at the end of a "slap in the face", "kick in the teeth", or whatever phraseology you wish to use to define this...spending long periods in prayer and fasting for God to intervene in a situation where I can do nothing and the matter just keeps getting worse and worse. Over and over, devout Christians are told to pray about their problems. "God is listening!", they are told. They get their hopes up and then what happens? As an example, lets say right now 100,000 Christians are laying in the hospital with cancer with many, if not all being prayed for. How many of them will suddenly go into remission? You know the answer! If the prayers were answered, many of them would! That fact alone would be proof positive God is listening, God has mercy and God healed them! You know what will happen. Maybe a few will go into remission and those few are simply NOT proof God answered those prayers. Christians are given the pep talk to pray and they do with the end result being no answer or things get worse. Those Christians go away discouraged, feeling deceived or like me, feel as I wasted my time because He wasn't about to lift a finger in the first place. Lets skip the usual Christian platitudes here. How do we know God even cares about us? As a father, if I had a son and he asked me for help, I'd be there. I'd do something. There would be no doubt in my son's mind I heard him. God may have heard and answered prayers of a few select people who were part of the establishment of mankind thru the history of the Bible, but how about NOW? I've been in this Christian life long enough now to realize most if not all of your praying is an exercise in futility. You may make yourself feel good for a few minutes, but that's about all will happen. I've swallowed the platitudes, read the books, heard the preachers. God is not listening. God does not care about our situations (meaning legitimate matters, not praying for a $200,000 car), we have been left alone here and He has shown very convincing evidence He is playing "hands off".

The problem is modern Christianity presents God as being there to make your life good and fix all problems. This is very appealing but not true. Went through something similar and found out my theology was wrong. Dropped that when i find the truth. Much more stable but less comforting if having a good life is the goal

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Absolutely! Like a relationship with a human father, you should talk to him when times are good and bad because your father is not a vending machine which you go to when you want something! When you talk to your human father, its nothing flowery, stilted or formal. You open up your mouth and talk. One thing more, you don't say "father" in every second sentence which seems to be a ridiculous "technique" of too many Christians!

This is off subject but your post reminded me of the address in prayer that bugs me the most, it’s “Father God” in every sentence. Do they think God is Catholic and his associates are Father O’Brian and Father Joseph? Do they think He needs to be reminded he’s Father? Or God? Do they think his attention wanders?

 

[Ancient of Days]

Once again, I find myself at the end of a "slap in the face", "kick in the teeth", or whatever phraseology you wish to use to define this...spending long periods in prayer and fasting for God to intervene in a situation where I can do nothing and the matter just keeps getting worse and worse. Over and over, devout Christians are told to pray about their problems. "God is listening!", they are told. They get their hopes up and then what happens? As an example, lets say right now 100,000 Christians are laying in the hospital with cancer with many, if not all being prayed for. How many of them will suddenly go into remission? You know the answer! If the prayers were answered, many of them would! That fact alone would be proof positive God is listening, God has mercy and God healed them! You know what will happen. Maybe a few will go into remission and those few are simply NOT proof God answered those prayers. Christians are given the pep talk to pray and they do with the end result being no answer or things get worse. Those Christians go away discouraged, feeling deceived or like me, feel as I wasted my time because He wasn't about to lift a finger in the first place. Lets skip the usual Christian platitudes here. How do we know God even cares about us? As a father, if I had a son and he asked me for help, I'd be there. I'd do something. There would be no doubt in my son's mind I heard him. God may have heard and answered prayers of a few select people who were part of the establishment of mankind thru the history of the Bible, but how about NOW? I've been in this Christian life long enough now to realize most if not all of your praying is an exercise in futility. You may make yourself feel good for a few minutes, but that's about all will happen. I've swallowed the platitudes, read the books, heard the preachers. God is not listening. God does not care about our situations (meaning legitimate matters, not praying for a $200,000 car), we have been left alone here and He has shown very convincing evidence He is playing "hands off".

Expectations are premeditated resentments. Maybe your perception is off. If God is silent, he has his reasons. Read the book of Job. The real question is "where will your faith be after this time of testing"? Most Christians fall away because they didn't get what they wanted or God wasn't doing what they thought he should be doing.

 

[Blade]

Jim.. lets remember.. EACH person has a say in this. God will NEVER go against your will..ever. Jesus goes into some town.. with SICK like all the other towns where EVERYONE He touched was healed. And if everything was written of what He did ..not enough books to hold it. So Jesus goes into this town where ALL He could do with NO limit to the Spirit of God.. All He could do was lay hands a few and teach.

why? DOUBT. Forgive me read your post. You wish pray God to do what? Go against what you believe? The word says.. aka GOD "if we know He hears us then we know we have the petitions we asked/prayed for". Does it not talk before that about Gods will? God does not say..well we'll see if I FEEL like it today kind of thing. Gods will is HIS WORD. Everything HE said.. it will NEVER change. He will not go back on HIS word. Everything He said He will do. You talk about healing.. SO many people never use there faith.. and then GOD forbid something awful happens then they try to believe.. and it does not work then. Then the natural thing to MAN to say is just God must not have wanted to heal me. Yet that is NOT what the Bible says. The word about that is clear Isa 53:5 1st Peter 2:24. Or Jesus.. lay hands on the sick and they WILL recover. Or Peter and John at the gate..

Ok Peter and John.. said look on us.. the man expected something.. I don't think HEALING was one of them lol. "We don't have any silver of Gold..but what we do have give I unto you..in JESUS name"..what STILL to this day just JUMPS out to me was.. WHEN did they pray..OH JESUS If its your will..OH GOD..please show favor over this poor man and touch him..no. NEVER did they say that.. they said.. what I HAVE...so what do YOU have? The exact same thing..JESUS. He said..give I unto you.. IN JESUS NAME

Then the people thought they had some POWER and healed this man. They said.. why do you look on us as if we did this under our own power. ..no, GET THIS..it was FIATH IN THAT NAME! Did not Jesus say.. IN MY NAME? So many don't KNOW the will of God for them. GODS WILL is HIS WORD.

And my dear dear brother.. I can pray for ALL in every hospital. But they have a will. Ask here.. some KNOW God can heal right now.. some wonder if He can. When I pray for them I ask..what can you believe? What do you want? Some can believe the Doctor will find the problem and fix it. There are those that like the man in the Bible that said to Jesus about being healed... I know you CAN..but do you want to? Jesus said..I do...That was faith. There is SO much here one can not touch on all of it.

Faith.. with out works is dead. Ask.. do you WORK your faith? How many KNOW what that means? Again so many bless there hearts wait till something bad happens and THEN try to have faith.. wont work. Faith.. my little boy at the age of 4? In LA.. Target store.. went to grab my leg I moved (oh.. I still blame myself)..fell hit his head.. I pick him ..he goes just as if dead.. this strange thing happen... this fear.. never had so much fear in my life.. everything went very blurry.. like a dream.. me no faith at all at that moment..screaming..someone help my baby... ambulance comes.. they never leave..the door opens.. he says "he is not responding to anything".... I turn and start to walk a ways.. and say "Father I will never blame you".. the door opens and "he's responding". Chopper comes.. they take him to hospital ..I get there to hear this voice screaming DADDDDY! He's perfectly fine..

When I said.. I will never blame you.. no fear no worry I KNEW my Father.. I KNEW everything that was happening was not his fault or by Him. Its my life.. He will NOT go against my will. Nor yours. Our words matter. Do you speak word of life or doubt? Doubt is a sin..its not faith. The word says "if you doubt your like a ship tossed back and forth.. and let not that man think he will get anything from god. See what does HE say in His word? Start with LITTEL things.. keep your mind on HIM and He WILL keep you in perfect peace. Fear pops up..you say.. its written.. God has not given me the spirit of fear but power and love and a sound mind. FOR ME..I don't care how I FEEL... I speak HIS word. See HE cant lie. He said.. that fear was not from Him. He said HIS joy is my strength. There are over 7 thousand promise in the word.

I said.. John 3:16.. by my mouth.. I believed in my heart. I do the SAME for the other verses. I don't HOPE it will happen. It will.. one day.. questioning Him.. as in DOUBT... like you here sorry. This DOES NOT happen much..but has in my life. As in.. you ask Him and He gets RIGHT back to you that moment.. well as I was.. upset.. things not happening and duh He was not doing His part.. wow.. He came right back with..and strong "WHEN Have I ever failed you?"...then shows you things in your life..where He was always there and my lack of seeing it...was not His fault. But the FACT He was ALWAYS there and ALWAYS kept His word. As in answering it..

You reading.. do you KNOW God can not lie? If you read that bible and He said something.. do you just take it as if He JUST said it to you? Or..do you wonder.. doubt.. was it for me..maybe it was just for them? Jesus said.. if you ask the Father anything in my name He will do it.. He said that again. Jesus said.. what ever you desire when you pray.. believe you receive it.. and you will have it. I CANNOT speak about those that use this in different ways. I am talking about what JESUS said. So when you ask..you make sure its WRITTEN in His word.. His will is His word. Do you look around you at others to then make that the case to believe or not? Well SO AND SO did said prayed and it never happen..

I Know personally some on the out side nothing but faith.. then something happens.. and alone or with someone......tell you about all the doubt.. not knowing. Yet.. NO ONE saw this side of him. If you doubt.. let not that man think he will get anything from God. Nor was this ever told to anyone. No lying...no one would or has ever asked.

I tell you only what I KNOW. If you believe God and HIS word.. it WILL always work. But..one must WORK YOUR FIATH! No WAY can I pray for a hospital with cancer.. One person.. I would have to pray. seek God fast... and pray always. And what really matters is what do THEY believe? Did Jesus ever say.. what do you want need? What did He say about YOUR FAITH HAS? Your faith has HEALED YOU?

I am NO expert.. but I KNOW that I know that I KNOW..if you believe trust in.. don't doubt.. no matter how dark it gets. NO matter how many around you fall...you stand on HIS WORD and don't doubt... HE WILL Keep His word. That WORD can not come back to Him void. I tell you what I KNOW..not what some man said. Oh I've been told that by friends..oh you got that from believe like.. so and so.. then have to show them my bible since I was 12 and ALL the verse that..just JUMPED out.. it was HIM talking.. I just take HIM at HIS WORD! AND Really? God our father is doing more good then ALL the evil in the world... we are the LIGHT of this world.. He is IN YOU.. faith.. do you HEAR Jesus talking to you?

John 3:16 believe that? Then Jesus said.. my sheep KNOW my voice.. not guess not have to wonder.. was that GOD? If He said you will KNOW my voice.. what else has to be said? He ALWAYS backs up HIs word what He says by HIS word. HE says something...lets say..you do what HE told you.. TEST ALL Spirits.. ok if this is you where is that written. HE will tell you. LOVES TO! You are keeping HIS word.

 

[Jim Electronic]

This is off subject but your post reminded me of the address in prayer that bugs me the most, it’s “Father God” in every sentence. Do they think God is Catholic and his associates are Father O’Brian and Father Joseph? Do they think He needs to be reminded he’s Father? Or God? Do they think his attention wanders?

Your response is quite correct! Vain repetition! It destroys the moment and is a distraction. Many times I found myself counting how many times a word or phrase is repeated. The other problem is when people use King James language! Does that mean we might have more effect if we use a fake southern accent? I mean, it's ridiculous. If we believe prayer is talking to God, then just go ahead and talk. Of course, you should address Him properly, and that does not mean every third sentence!

 

[W2L]

The scriptures say that if we do wrong then God wont hear our prayers.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Expectations are premeditated resentments. Maybe your perception is off. If God is silent, he has his reasons. Read the book of Job. The real question is "where will your faith be after this time of testing"? Most Christians fall away because they didn't get what they wanted or God wasn't doing what they thought he should be doing.

Yup....God wasn't the "fulfiling their desires as a main goal" god they had signed up as having so its time to leave. If they have bought into OSAS, then they can leave without worry as their ticket to Heaven is sown up, in their eyes. Of course there church friends will say they never believed at all since they left. That is an interesting part of that theology. OSAS believers account themselves going to Heaven whether they leave the faith or not but if others leave the faith, well then they never really believed. Two different measures.

 

[gordonhooker]

I had a rather heated discussion with an AOG pastor and a couple of his cronies after my sisters funeral in 1989. My sister had breast cancer that she had not picked up on earlier enough and it had gone from the breast into the glands then into her womb, so basically by the time it was diagnosed she was terminal. Although she attended Sunday school and church as child and teenager she stopped attending church and went about life as most do in the secular world these days. After she was diagnosed she turned back to God and became involved with the local AOG church (we were bought up Anglican) which I thought was great, my big sister had found God again. The AOG community had convinced her that if she prayed and they prayed God would spare her life and we know that miracles do occur for some and not for others. The point of my story is that when a miracle did not occur and she died one month before her 43rd birthday the pastor and his cronies said to us that the reason she died was because she did not have enough faith. Had I not got between my younger brother and the pastor my brother would have done more than have a heated discussion with the man. I am not for one moment saying the AOG pastors and their cronies are not Christian I am saying that some (not just AOG people) have extremely immature concept of God and of prayer.

When my sister did die asked myself the same question - why her and a few years later my other big sister. I remembered the scripture about Jesus praying in the garden prior to be taken away and crucified, where he prayed to his Father asking if this cup could be taken from him if it be Gods will. Humbling when you remember what Jesus did for us on cross and you also remember that he asks us to follow him, not just in the good times but also the challenging times.

Blessings, Gordon

 

[Bobber]

Once again, I find myself at the end of a "slap in the face", "kick in the teeth", or whatever phraseology you wish to use to define this...spending long periods in prayer and fasting for God to intervene in a situation where I can do nothing and the matter just keeps getting worse and worse.

Well Jim I've read your whole post here and all the others. Problems with your assertions is that you leave the impression that you know YOUR experience with God is universally much the same with everyone. Let me say for the first 5 years about of my Christian like I knew no victory. As time went along I leaned from God through his word the things that lead to victory...I mean real victory in Christ and not just words. You claim you've done A,B. C and D. Maybe you did and maybe you didn't or maybe you did but not to the degree that your needed to do. I don't know. I'm not with you 24/7. I maintain God is Good, and keeps his word. I'll never give up on that.

 

[Jim Electronic]

Yes, I DID! However, even in your well written response, it all comes back to blaming me! This is incredible! That's all I seem to be finding. My points are very, very simple to understand and nobody here has even attempted to comment about them. I know, for a fact, most of my prayers go unanswered. They aren't/weren't me asking for a new girl every night, a billion dollars or any other such nonsense! I'm talking about prayers asking Him to intervene in legitimate matters which a good Christian cares about. Since I'm only one of many Christians in this world, I would have to conclude most others have had the exact same results...most of their praying results in nothing! Therefore, my exact point is perhaps we have this all wrong! Perhaps God has declared "hands off" because of how low mankind has sunk since the creation. Preachers, books, sermons and websites jam and cram the idea all you need to do is ask God, that's what He is there for and if your request is Godly in nature, He will answer. THAT is NOT happening! When a Christian dare question this matter, the usual response is the prayers are not answered because you are the problem. Right. Sure. If a devout Christian is praying for a very sick little child to be healed and very predictably that prayer is not answered it's because the person submitting the prayer is asking for an unGodly thing and the praying person is just plain no good anyway. That's ridiculous! Someone here and there who can cite something they claim is answered prayer is not proof positive He answered! My point very simply is God knows everything. God has the power to do anything. But God has declared "hands off" because of the state mankind has slipped to. There simply is not convincing evidence in large numbers to indicate otherwise.