Maybe, "three nights and three days" ?

Daniel Gregg · Apr 9, 2016

Hank77 said:
but is not called a Sabbath, and I can see that the Day of Atonement is. God did not call it a Sabbath

ESV John 19:31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away.

Do you know any Karaites who call Nisan 15 the Sabbath?

Daniel Gregg · Apr 9, 2016

Hank77 said:
at the going in of the sun, the season of thy coming out of Egypt

On which day at the going down of the sun did they leave Egypt?

visionary · Apr 9, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
ESV John 19:31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away.

Do you know any Karaites who call Nisan 15 the Sabbath?

Lev 23:5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight (*when God says a new day begins) is Yahweh's Passover. 6 'Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to Yahweh; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. 7 'On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work[rest - Sabbath]. 8 'But for seven days you shall present an offering by fire to Yahweh. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.'"

Daniel Gregg · Apr 10, 2016

visionary said:
One thing is for sure.. we all agree that First Fruits was Saturday night - Sunday.. We also agree the women came to the tomb to anoint the body of Yeshua that morning.

No we dont

visionary · Apr 10, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
No we dont

You are right... different translations say different things.
John 20:1 (KJV) The first day of the week ....
John 20:1Jubilee Bible 2000 (JUB) The first of the sabbaths,.....
Yochanan 20:1 Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB) Now on the Yom Rishon,

Daniel Gregg · Apr 10, 2016

visionary said:
You are right... different translations say different things.

visionary · Apr 10, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
No we dont

What is Mary doing on the "first of the Sabbaths" going out to the Tomb? After all it is also stated that the women "rested according to the Commandment".

Daniel Gregg · Apr 10, 2016

visionary said:
What is Mary doing on the "first of the Sabbaths" going out to the Tomb? After all it is also stated that the women "rested according to the Commandment".

The difference between a heckler who exhausts the teacher with questions and a reasonable person is that the reasonable person agrees with reasonable points made as the discussion progresses before raising points he or she perceives as difficult. You have not actually agreed that anything I posted is reasonable.

Hank77 · Apr 10, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
His response to MY Hebrew expertise was to ban me. He did not like being told that מחר means "in time to come."

Ahh...so you are saying you are Daniel Gregg. Good to know.
What is your background in the Hebrew language. How did you learn it?

Daniel Gregg said:
This is the wrong time to be making appeals to authority Hank.

Convince me of why I should trust your authority to translate the Hebrew?
Are you Jewish, did you grow up in a Rabbical household, was your father, grandfather a Rabbi, did you attend Jewish schools, were you in training to be a Rabbi? Who taught you the Hebrew language?

Hank77 · Apr 10, 2016

visionary said:
What is Mary doing on the "first of the Sabbaths" going out to the Tomb? After all it is also stated that the women "rested according to the Commandment".

There is an explanation for what seems to be a discrepancy.
The Greek says Sabbaths, in the plural form. The KJV, translates it as 'week' in the singular, which should be plural 'weeks'.
It was the first of the Sabbaths or weeks of the counting of the omer. The woman rested, as is commanded, on the 7th day Shabbot. On the first day of the weeks of the counting of the omer they went to the tomb.

devonburns15 · Apr 10, 2016

OK so I converted to Christianity recently and I just wanted to run this video by everyone. It definitely opened my eyes. God Bless everyone and may Jesus Christ be in your heart.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

AbbaLove · Apr 10, 2016

Jonah was fast asleep having gone down into the sides of the ship. Perhaps he was swallowed by the large fish around 6 am. It really isn’t all that critical whether it was three 12 hr days and three 12 hr nights in that order or three 12 hr nights and three 12 hr days in that order. My own opinion is that it was at least three 24 hr days or Mark wouldn't have said, "after three days rise again" (Mark 8:31). Although, Mark 9:31 says, "and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later."
The following Jewish daily timeline charting (6 am to 6 am) with the weekly Sabbath beginning 12 hrs earlier at 6 pm on the 6th Day implies that the actual weekly Sabbath is 36 hrs. However, only 12 hrs is daytime with 24 hrs of nighttime.

Daniel Gregg said:
Traditional Judaism has many errors. One of these as pointed out by Eben Ezra and Jacob Milgrom (JPS Torah Commentary) is the teaching that a day begins at sunset. This view is not according to the Messianic Faith. Only Sabbaths begin at sunset. The rest of days begin at dawn …

According to Daniel Gregg (and other researchers) the timeline for 24 hr Hebrew day was originally thought to be from 6 am to 6 am. Daniel Gregg believes this timeline was still in effect at the time of Yeshua with only the weekly Sabbath beginning on the evening (6 pm) of the 6th day (Friday). Using this timeline Yeshua’s resurrection occurred during the waning hours (12 midnight to 6 am) at the end of the weekly Sabbath . Using a Roman calendar Yeshua’s resurrection occurred during the first hours (12 midnight to 6am) of the 1st day of the Roman week (Sunday), before sunrise.

Jewish 4th Day
6 am to 6 am = last 18 hrs of a Wednesday (6 am to 12 noon to 12 midnight)
12 midnight to 6 am = first 6 hrs of a Thursday
6 am to 6 pm = 12 hrs (3-4 hrs of daylight remained after Yeshua’s death)
6 pm to 6 am = 12 hrs nighttime ~ 1st Hebrew Night
(beginning of the weekly Sabbath on Friday evening)
Aviv 14 = Preparation Day

Jewish 5th Day
6 am to 6 am = last 18 hrs of a Thursday (6 am to 12 noon to 12 midnight)
12 midnight to 6 am = first 6 hrs of Friday
6 am to 6 pm = 12 hrs daytime ~ 1st Hebrew Day
6 pm to 6 am = 12 hrs nighttime ~ 2nd Hebrew Night
(beginning of the weekly Sabbath on Friday evening)
Aviv 15 = 1st Day of Unleavened Bread

Jewish 6th Day
6 am to 6 am = last 18 hrs of a Friday (6 am to 12 noon to 12 midnight)
(6 pm to 6 am was the beginning of the weekly Sabbath on the 6th day)
12 midnight to 6 am = first 6 hrs of Saturday
6 am to 6 pm = 12 hrs daytime ~ 2nd Hebrew Day
6 pm to 6 am = 12 hrs nighttime ~ 3rd Hebrew Night
(beginning of the weekly Sabbath on Friday evening)
Aviv 16 = 2nd Day of Unleavened Bread

Jewish 7th Day
6 am to 6 am = last 18 hrs of a Saturday (6 am to 12 noon to 12 midnight)
12 midnight to 6 am = first 6 hrs of a Sunday
6 am to 6 pm = 12 hrs daytime ~ 3rd Hebrew Day
(Yeshua appeared to His Disciples during the daytime)
6 pm to 6 am = 12 hrs nighttime
Aviv 17 = 3nd Day of Unleavened Bread
Any additional hours beyond two 24 hr days is considered “on the third day”
“after three days” when taking into account the 3-4 hrs of remaining daylight on Aviv 14

Jewish 1st day
6 am to 6 am = last 18 hrs of a Sunday (6 am to 12 noon to 12 midnight)
12 midnight to 6 am = first 6 hrs of a Monday

Perhaps some of the Scribes, Sadducees, Pharisees and even followers of Yeshua were familiar with both the Jewish calendar and the Roman calendar being that Israel was under Roman rule. It’s evident from the NT that many of the ruling Scribes, Sadducees, Pharisees and others feared Rome more than they feared God. Is it not possible that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John took into account both the Jewish calendar and the Roman calendar when recording the events surrounding the Passover of Unleavened Bread, First Fruits and Yeshua’s Resurrection for both Messianic Jews and Messianic Greek Believers in Yeshua as the only begotten Son of God.

Assumed a Roman day (during the time of Yeshua) began at 12 midnight (as it does now). Yeshua was probably arrested around midnight which would be the beginning of a Roman Thursday; while 6 hrs still remained of Daniel Gregg's 4th Jewish day (6 am to 6 am). If not then the above timelines would need to be adjusted accordingly.

Daniel Gregg · Apr 10, 2016

AbbaLove said:
According to Daniel Gregg.....

A good deal of what you claim (or imply) is according to me isn't. This is how it is:

AbbaLove · Apr 11, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
A good deal of what you claim (or imply) is according to me isn't [it].

Basically Yes, as far as 6 am to 6am being a Jewish Day at the time of Yeshua (except on a Sabbath). Aviv 14 wasn't a Sabbath ... "When the sixth hour came, darkness fell over the whole land until the ninth hour." If in fact Aviv 14 began at 6 am that would mean that the preparaton for the Last Supper, Yeshua's arrest and His examination took place during the later half of Aviv 13 (say 3 pm to 6 am), with the continued questioning, mock trial, scourging and crucifixion taking place during the first half of Aviv 14 (6 am to 3 pm). Does my above timeline scenario differ enough so as to significantly contradict your 6 am to 6 am Jewish day timeline of events when it comes to "on the third day," "after three days" and "three days and three nights" ?

According to your timeline a Jewish day is from sunrise to sunrise (6 am to 6 am) except for a 36 hr Sabbath beginning during the last 12 hrs of the previous day beginning at sundown. So, the High Sabbath on Aviv 15 (like with the weekly 7th Day Sabbath) actually begins 12 hrs earlier during the latter half of Aviv 14, from 6 pm to 6 am. That's why Yeshua had to be in the tomb before sundown on Aviv 14, which preceded the High Sabbath on the 1st Day of Unlleavened Bread. According to Daniel Gregg's timeline (and that of other researchers) the implication is every Sabbath begins at the last 12 hrs of darkness (6pm to 6 am) of the preceeding day followed then by the Jewish daily timeline of 6 am to 6 am.

the dawnng of the sun rising is also the dawning of the Son Rising
( toward the end of the Jewish Sabbath just before dawn and nearly 6 hrs into our western Sunday at dawn)

Matthew 28:1 YLT (Jewish 7th Day timeline)
And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,
Matthew 28:1 NAS (taking into account the timeline of our Saturday and Sunday (12 am to 12 am)
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.
Matthew 28:1 GNV (1599 Geneva Bible)
Now in (a)the (b)end of the Sabbath, when the first day of the week (c)began to dawn, Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, came to see the sepulcher.

GNV Footnotes:

(a) Christ having put death to flight in the sepulcher, riseth by his own power, as straightway the Angel witnessed.
(b) At the going out of the Sabbath, that is, about daybreak after the Roman’s count, which reckon the natural day, from the sun rising to the next sun rising: and not as the Hebrews, which count from evening to evening.
(c) When the morning after the first day after the Sabbath began to dawn: and that first day is the same, which we now call Sunday or the Lord’s day.

Is (b) a correct interpretation? When did the counting of the Roman day (running from sun rising to the next sun rising) get changed to our modern western day from 12 am of midnight to the next 12 am of midnight? Daniel you sound like all Messianics should believe a Jewish Day (at the time of Yeshua) was still in effect from 6 am to 6 am. When do you think Rabbinic Judaism (years after 70 AD) changed every Jewish Day from beginning at sunrise to beginning at sundown?

Is it not possible that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (as well as the early Church translators) took into account both the Jewish calendar and the Roman calendar? That's possibly why there is some confusion as to the timeline of the various recording of the events surrounding the Passover, Unleavened Bread, Sabbaths, First Fruits and Yeshua’s Resurrection to be read by both Messianic Jewish Believers and Greek (non-Jewish) Believers/Followers of Yeshua, the perfect Lamb of God.

Any way hopefully most Messianics are satisfied that Yeshua arose both toward the end of the weekly Sabbath (6 am to 6 am) just at the early dawning of the sunrise AND on the first day of our Sunday almost 6 hours into our western Sunday (12 am to 6 am) at the early dawning of the sunrise.

Daisybell · Oct 8, 2018

sahjimira said:
Oh boy I confused. I guess I'm stuck on modern day/night and have a hard time converting the two ( Jewish nights being the beginning of the day). In those terms did Jesus getting crucified on a Wednesday and that being considered a day contributing to the time in the tomb? I hope someone can make sense of this post because I think I confused myself even more

Reply 2 1/2 Years Later....
3 Days and 3 Nights of Jesus’ burial on a timeline. Prove the three full days from scripture. It is actually possible to link the scriptures together and plot them on a timeline, proving the three full days and three full nights Jesus was in the grave.
Timeline Explaining 3 Days & Nights - Easter / Passover
Three Days, Three Nights, One Messiah

Daisybell · Oct 8, 2018

Hank77 said:
There is an explanation for what seems to be a discrepancy.
The Greek says Sabbaths, in the plural form. The KJV, translates it as 'week' in the singular, which should be plural 'weeks'.
It was the first of the Sabbaths or weeks of the counting of the omer. The woman rested, as is commanded, on the 7th day Shabbot. On the first day of the weeks of the counting of the omer they went to the tomb.

Further study on 3D and 3N in the tomb:
3 Days and 3 Nights of Jesus’ burial on a timeline. Prove the three full days from scripture. It is actually possible to link the scriptures together and plot them on a timeline, proving the three full days and three full nights Jesus was in the grave.
Timeline Explaining 3 Days & Nights - Easter / Passover
Three Days, Three Nights, One Messiah
The First Day of Unleavened Bread, an annual Holy Day, falls on Nisan 15 of the Hebrew calendar and begins at the evening ending Nisan 14 (Leviticus 23:5–6). In the time of Christ, the Jews killed the Passover lamb the afternoon of Nisan 14 at about the hour Christ, the Lamb of God, died at the hands of the Romans. Christ's last supper took place at the beginning of Nisan 14, on the evening before the crucifixion. That night He was betrayed by Judas, denied by Peter and beaten before the high priest (Matthew 26:30–75; John 18:1–27).
The following morning—still Nisan 14—He was tried by Pilate, condemned, scourged and crucified (Matthew 27; John 18:28–40). Notice in John 19:31 that Christ had to be buried before evening "because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day)." These scriptures show conclusively that the Passover memorial that Christ ordained was on the evening that began Nisan 14. This was the evening before the Jewish Passover celebration, which was held in the evening beginning the Holy Day of Nisan 15.
Read more...

AFrazier · Oct 9, 2018

daq said:
Essentially Yeshua says to Ananus, "Call your witnesses", (and take it to trial) because he already knew they would not be able to find even two credible witnesses that would agree, because if they did, then Yeshua would not be crucified but rather stoned for the initial charge of having been a mesith, (which charges changed when Kaiaphas rent his garment and utterly disqualified himself). Therefore when Yeshua says these things Ananus then binds him over to stand trial before Kaiaphas and the twenty-three member criminal court of the Sanhedrin. Yeshua therefore begins three full days and three full nights in the Sanhedrin underground dungeon cistern-pit at the morning dawn of seventeen Abib.

The concept you have here agrees with the notions of some of the early church writers. In general, the Didascalia Apostolorum, the writings of Victorinus, Epiphanius of Salamis, and a few pseudopigraphical and apocryphal works, all maintain a Tuesday night last supper and a Friday crucifixion (Epiph. Pan. 26.1-27.3; ibid De Fide 22.1; Connolly, Didascalia, 5.14, 184; Vict. De Fab. Mund. 3-4; J. K. Elliot, ed., Narrative of Joseph of Arimathaea, 2-3, in Apocryphal New Testament, 218-220). That gives us three nights and three days from Tuesday night through Friday day.

I don’t say that I agree with the conclusion, mind you. The gospels are explicit in stating that Christ was tried one night and crucified the next morning. There is no evidence that two or three days intervened. Jesus told Peter that before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crowed that night, he would deny him three times. The [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crowed for the final time at the close of the trial, and “straightway in the morning,” “when morning was come,” “as soon as it was day,” they bound him, and, “then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment.” (Mark 15:1; Matt. 27:1; Luke 22:66; John 18:28)

Nevertheless, the concept is not without merit, and there is a historical basis of dogma for the idea.

AFrazier · Oct 9, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Why would it need to be? They would believe because he was dead exactly 72 hrs or 24 hrs or ???

On this I'm going to actually agree with you. lol. Dead is dead. If you're dead for more than an hour, coming back to life is a miracle of God. I don't think it matters one bit if he was dead for 36 hours or 72 hours, if three days and nights is literal or synecdoche. He was dead, and then he wasn't. That's the sign and the miracle.

AFrazier · Oct 9, 2018

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
As I said multiple times, it does NOT need to be 72 hrs. You all are taking what was said out of context! It also said in 3 days. on the 3rd day, after 3 days...

Again, agreed. In fact, Matthew 27:63-64 gives a great example of two of them being used together in the same context. Jesus said he would rise again after three days, so they wanted the sepulchre made sure until the third day, demonstrating the synonymy of the two phrases. If they didn't mean the same thing, then Jesus would have been saying that he was going to rise on the fourth day, so they therefore wanted the tomb secured until the third day. The guards would have left a day early and would have missed the day that mattered most.

AFrazier · Oct 9, 2018

Soyeong said:
The concern was to bury Yeshua before the Sabbath, so there very likely was a small period of time in between when Jesus was buried and sundown, so I don't think it necessarily had to be exactly 72 hours unless he rose exactly minus that period of time. If you want to get technical about it, days are not exactly 24 hours, and the time that the sun sets and rises changes from day to day. Nevertheless, I think it refers to a full or mostly full day or night. I've seen the claim that they counted any part of a day as a full day to try to cram three days and nights between Friday and Sunday, but I haven't seen a source for that claim.

The source is scripture. He died on the day of the preparation, which is the day before the sabbath (Mark 15:42). And he rose early on the first day of the week (Mark 16:9). Since he was only in the grave for part of Friday and part of Sunday, those days are clearly being counted as full days.

Maybe, "three nights and three days" ?

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