Maybe, "three nights and three days" ?

Daniel Gregg · Apr 7, 2016

Hank77 said:
Ahh....yeah, that is what I meant, that he rose on the 7th day, that is why I spoke of Him as the Firstfruits. Can't be Firstfruits and still be in the grave.
Sorry about that.

You will see that the resurrection goes with the end of the first fruit offering.

daq · Apr 8, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
Rewind Daq. This what you claimed. What is between evening and morning is a NIGHT. Genesis 1:3-5 is set up like this:

What I claimed is that the light was divided from the darkness. You appear to be suggesting from the image file that the Father paused, intermissioned, ceased, or rested from His work while a night passed between each of your theoretical twenty-four hour days. I never said that because I know that erets and shamayim were made in a yom, (Genesis 2:4). How then do you account for the six yamim and not include night time pauses in between them? For we clearly read elsewhere that in six yamim He made the heavens and the earth, (Exodus 20:11). You appear to say they are literal twenty-four hour days with nights mixed in between the daylight hours. What if the yamim of creation are six hours of spoken Word rather than six twenty-four hour days? This would mean there are no pauses of night time hours mixed in between them because they are the first six yamim-hours of a single yom-day, and as I suggested already, the seventh hour is the Shabbat. This also has bearing on what else we are discussing because every hour has its own morning and evening, (waxing and waning, inhale exhale, spoken Word). If this be true then the final minutes of the seventh hour of the day are the end of a day, (and the evening of the seventh hour), while the final moments of the twelfth hour of the day are also an evening in multiple senses of the word. "Between the evenings" would therefore mean between the evening of the seventh hour, (the end of the day) and the evening of the twelfth hour, (the literal end of the day). This time period is therefore five hours and the midst thereof is the bottom of the ninth hour: sound familiar?
.
.

Daniel Gregg · Apr 8, 2016

daq said:
What if the yamim of creation are six hours of spoken Word rather than six twenty-four hour days?

I think were done. This does not agree with normal meanings of words via the context.

Hank77 · Apr 8, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
Your position is unclear. But you did mentioned 1st day of the week. So which is it. Sabbath or the 1st day of the week that you think he was raised on?

I believe He was raised 'between the evenings' of the 7th day Sabbath and the 8th day.
Just as the barley was being cut away from the ground, He arose.....Then the barley was prepared for the firstfruits offering. What Yeshua was doing during this time I don't know, but I suspect praying, such as He did in the garden, until He met the women at the tomb.

Daniel Gregg said:
The Sabbath in Lev. 23:11 is the annual one-- Nisan 15.

I agree with the Sadducees on this one. The Karaites still believe the same today.
The wave sheaf offering is on the morrow of the 7th day Sabbath during the week of unleavened bread, every year. Pentecost always falling on the 8th day. The 8th day having it's own significance.

daq · Apr 8, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
I think were done. This does not agree with normal meanings of words via the context.

One can only define "the norm" for ones own self, and not for others, and having learned that lesson many times over the hard way I do no more run in packs or herds because I grew tired of following the leaders over cliffs and into ditches; last time I ended up in mourning three shabu`iym yamiym, (that is to say, three days ). Oh well, to each his or her own I suppose.
.
.

Daniel Gregg · Apr 8, 2016

Hank77 said:
I believe He was raised 'between the evenings' of the 7th day Sabbath and the 8th day.
Just as the barley was being cut away from the ground, He arose.....Then the barley was prepared for the firstfruits offering. What Yeshua was doing during this time I don't know, but I suspect praying, such as He did in the garden, until He met the women at the tomb.

I agree with the Sadducees on this one. The Karaites still believe the same today.
The wave sheaf offering is on the morrow of the 7th day Sabbath during the week of unleavened bread, every year. Pentecost always falling on the 8th day. The 8th day having it's own significance.

The first Pentecost fell on the Sabbath day.

http://www.torahtimes.org/writings/understanding-shavuot-chronology/article.html

Daniel Gregg · Apr 8, 2016

daq said:
One can only define "the norm" for ones own self, and not for others

That's a pagan idea called relativism. Unobjective. Unscientific. That's why we are finished reasoning together. You have no basis to objectively object.

daq · Apr 8, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
That's a pagan idea called relativism. Unobjective. Unscientific. That's why we are finished reasoning together. You have no basis to objectively object.

I thought you said we were done already? If you do not shabbatize every day of the week you will not see the Father, period, (words of Yeshua) but of course neither is that a watered down normative rendering of that passage, (from Ge'ez) and therefore I said, to each his or her own. You have your household for which you have been left in charge and I have mine which indeed is not my own since having been purchased.
.
.

Pentateuch and Yeshua · Apr 8, 2016

AS SOON AS THE SABBATH HAD ENDED she entered the tomb and the body was gone - that alone negates sunday/first day resurrection, the math is unnecessary. Being gnostic on the issue and looking up which day the passover (Nisan 14) fell on in 33AD (and noting that it was a blood moon event and part of a tetrad) isn't even necessary, though it is interesting and also negates Sunday. There is 0 case for Sunday except "thats wot church teechez".

daq · Apr 8, 2016

Pentateuch and Yeshua said:
AS SOON AS THE SABBATH HAD ENDED she entered the tomb and the body was gone - that alone negates sunday/first day resurrection, the math is unnecessary. Being gnostic on the issue and looking up which day the passover (Nisan 14) fell on in 33AD (and noting that it was a blood moon event and part of a tetrad) isn't even necessary, though it is interesting and also negates Sunday. There is 0 case for Sunday except "thats wot church teechez".

If by gnostic you intend my comments I do not need to be gnostic when it concerns the three full days and three full nights which Yeshua spent in the Sanhedrin underground dungeon pit before his trial.
.
.

Pentateuch and Yeshua · Apr 8, 2016

By gnostic I mean the application of advanced knowledge that is not necessary to the faith and observance, rather than specifically of the Gnostic religion(s), and was referring to the historical knowledge of the dates and events of the year 33AD on the Gregorian calendar.

daq · Apr 8, 2016

Pentateuch and Yeshua said:
By gnostic I mean the application of advanced knowledge that is not necessary to the faith and observance, rather than specifically of the Gnostic religion(s), and was referring to the historical knowledge of the dates and events of the year 33AD on the Gregorian calendar.

Ah,
.
.

Hank77 · Apr 9, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
The first Pentecost fell on the Sabbath day.

http://www.torahtimes.org/writings/understanding-shavuot-chronology/article.html

Your article by Daniel Gregg says....
He states the Joshua 5:11 confirms that the wave offering is on the 16th. Quoting the translation (maybe his own, as I see he is attempting to translate from the Hebrew) that he uses..
“Then they ate from the produce of the land in the tomorrow of the Passover, unleavened bread and roasted grain on that same day.”
http://www.torahtimes.org/writings/understanding-shavuot-chronology/article.html

So "the tomorrow [or morrow] of the Passover", would be the 15th, and they ate the new grain on this day, which had to be after the wave offering. Passover the 14th, wave offering 15th, and eating the produce of the land on the 15th, as well.
The only way this could be true...Passover was on the Sabbath and the next day was the 15th, the morrow after the Passover and also the morrow of the 7th day Sabbath.

Here is a scripture that confirms the meaning of the "morrow of the Passover"....
Num 33:3 And they journey from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month, on the morrow of the passover have the sons of Israel gone out with a high hand, before the eyes of all the Egyptians--

Then Mr. Gregg, uses NT scriptures to try to confirm this OT scripture. That doesn't work very well. Because they were calling the 15th a Shabbot by the time of the second temple does not confirm that it was called that in the OT, in Moses or Joshua's time. Indeed, in the OT there was only one other day that was called a Sabbath besides the 7th day Sabbath. That day was the Day of Atonement.

The bigger problem with the Pharisee interpretation of “Sabbath” is when it comes to the end of the 50-day count. Leviticus 23:16 says,

“Until the morrow of the seventh Sabbath shall you count fifty days.”

The 1st day day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread could theoretically be called “Sabbath,” even though the Hebrew Bible never uses this terminology. However, the 49th day of the Pharisee counting is not a Sabbath, unless it happens to fall out on a weekly Sabbath - the 7th day of the week. Consequently, the Pharisee Shavuot is rarely the “morrow of the Seventh Sabbath” as required by Leviticus 23:16. About once every seven years, the Pharisee Shavuot does happen to fall out on the “morrow of the seventh Sabbath.”
http://www.nehemiaswall.com/truth-shavuot

Daniel Gregg · Apr 9, 2016

Hank77 said:
So "the tomorrow [or morrow] of the Passover", would be the 15th

One point at a time Hank.

Re: Josh. 5:11. Not correct. Deut 16 legislates a second Passover offering for Nisan 15 near sunset. Josh 5:11 is referring to this offering. So the 16th day of the month is meant by the morrow.

Daniel Gregg · Apr 9, 2016

Hank77 said:
“Until the morrow of the seventh Sabbath shall you count fifty days.”

This translation was corrected in the article. If you were not convinced by the article and the context, then you simply are not paying attention to the Hebrew language or its context. So if you want to make an objection, don't act as if the text was not considered and dealt with. To pretend so is not exactly honest.

Daniel Gregg · Apr 9, 2016

Hank77 said:
Indeed, in the OT there was only one other day that was called a Sabbath besides the 7th day Sabbath. That day was the Day of Atonement.

Begging the question. X = Y means Z fallacy. You have to assume the exception is ONLY the day of atonement. Whereas John 19:31 has Nisan 15 as "the Sabbath", and you have to assume calling Nisan 15 "the Sabbath" is only a late tradition. Defending one's point of view with further assumptions is a violation of proper reasoning (a.k.a. Okkam's Razor).

Hank77 · Apr 9, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
This translation was corrected in the article. If you were not convinced by the article and the context, then you simply are not paying attention to the Hebrew language or its context. So if you want to make an objection, don't act as if the text was not considered and dealt with. To pretend so is not exactly honest.

I'm not pretending or ignoring anything in the article, I just don't see any reason to believe Mr. Gregg's proficiency in the Hebrew language, compared to Mr. Gordon's proficiency in the Hebrew language.
I have tried to research how/why Mr. Gregg might have this scholarship and cannot find anything out about him, not even on his own site.
I know Mr. Gordon's background and believe I can trust his proficiency in the language.

What do you know about Daniel Gregg's background?

Hank77 · Apr 9, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
Begging the question. X = Y means Z fallacy. You have to assume the exception is ONLY the day of atonement. Whereas John 19:31 has Nisan 15 as "the Sabbath", and you have to assume calling Nisan 15 "the Sabbath" is only a late tradition. Defending one's point of view with further assumptions is a violation of proper reasoning (a.k.a. Okkam's Razor).

I don't have to assume. I can go to the OT and see that the 15th is a holy convocation, but is not called a Sabbath, and I can see that the Day of Atonement is. God did not call it a Sabbath, neither did Moses.
That is not assuming anything.

Hank77 · Apr 9, 2016

Daniel Gregg said:
Re: Josh. 5:11. Not correct. Deut 16 legislates a second Passover offering for Nisan 15 near sunset. Josh 5:11 is referring to this offering. So the 16th day of the month is meant by the morrow.

On the first Passover they ate the feast in their own homes. Once the the tabernacle was built in the wilderness, the Lord said they would come together, at the place He determined, to roast and eat the Passover. Then they were to return to their own tents.
I don't see this as a second Passover feast.

Deu 16:6 except at the place which Jehovah thy God doth choose to cause His name to tabernacle--there thou dost sacrifice the passover in the evening, at the going in of the sun, the season of thy coming out of Egypt;
Deu 16:7 and thou hast cooked and eaten in the place on which Jehovah thy God doth fix, and hast turned in the morning, and gone to thy tents;

We know that they were later commanded to do this at the temple in Jerusalem as one of the three pilgrimages.

I don't see any wave offering being given until they entered the promised land. ie. Joshua 5:11. The laws in Deut. 16, were given before this time.
If I am wrong about that please explain, with scripture attached.

Daniel Gregg · Apr 9, 2016

Hank77 said:
Mr. Gordon

IF you mean Nehemia Gordon, then he is an unbeliever with an anti-Messiah agenda. His response to MY Hebrew expertise was to ban me. He did not like being told that מחר means "in time to come." This is the wrong time to be making appeals to authority Hank. The matter was proved in the article by an inspection of the evidence itself. Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy in face of actual scientific proof. Proof reveals who is an authority and who is not.

Maybe, "three nights and three days" ?

Messianic, House of Yisra'el

Messianic

Messianic, House of Yisra'el

Well-Known Member

Messianic

Messianic, House of Yisra'el

Messianic, House of Yisra'el

Messianic

Active Member

Messianic

Active Member

Messianic

Well-Known Member

Messianic, House of Yisra'el

Messianic, House of Yisra'el

Messianic, House of Yisra'el

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Messianic, House of Yisra'el

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency