Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I realized I didn't know the difference between horns and antlers, but I found this page:Actually, there's this, so -1.
Personally, I like the deities with antlers.
Here is a link and one of many possible quotes from that linkEvidence that Jews weren't monotheists prior to the Babylonian Exile?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_JudaismThe origins of Judaism lie in the Bronze Age polytheistic Ancient Semitic religions, specifically Canaanite religion, a syncretization with elements of Babylonian religion and of the worship of Yahweh reflected in the early prophetic books of the Hebrew Bible. During the Babylonian captivity of the 6th and 5th centuries BCE, certain circles within the exiled Judahites in Babylon redefined pre-existing ideas about monotheism, election, divine law and Covenant into a theology which came to dominate the former Judah in the following centuries.
Here is a link and one of many possible quotes from that link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_Judaism
What are you basing this information off? I believe that the Jews were the first monotheistic religion.Paganism and idolatry was common in Judah and Israel until after Ezra returned from Persia with instructions from Cyrus to build a temple and whip the locals into monotheistic shape. Monotheism was the state religion of Persia, so Cyrus was probably trying to export Zoroastrianism by converting Jewish monolatry into monotheism. That is probably when the current form of the Torah was created from a collection of earlier Jewish religious texts. The Zoroastrian Jews who collected these writings into the current Torah had to remove some of the more obvious traces of Canaanite religion in the process.
I've never in 46 years ever heard anyone say that Judaism came from Zoroastrianism. That religion barely exists.I have no problem with the idea that the full concept of monotheism developed slowly. I do take issue with the idea that it took Zoroastrianism to define our religion. Seems kind of unsubstantiated.
The Old Testament in the Bible calls Babylon evil. This doesn't wash with the Bible at allHere is a link and one of many possible quotes from that link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_Judaism
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianismThe points of resemblance between Zoroastrianism and Judaism, and hence also between the former and Christianity, are many and striking.
...
It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.
Here is something I found explaining the Zoroastrian influence on Judaism. The whole article is informative, but here is snippet:
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism
What are you basing this information off? I believe that the Jews were the first monotheistic religion.
I would also point out that I find it highly unlikely that two civilizations were in such close contact but that the influence only went one way. One could argue that there would be influence going both ways so that some of the ideas we see as parallels could originate in either.
That is correct. And most of the influence occurs during the Hellenistic period not so much during the time of the Persian Empire. It seems one of the things both cultures shared was their misery under the Greeks. Hence in both traditions we find this great outpouring of apocalyptic literature. During the Persian Empire, Jews seem to be largely saying no to Zoroastrian dualism a la Isaiah 45 but during the Hellenistic period we see the introduction of concepts like the resurrection, the Judgement Day, paradise and hell, and most importantly demonology.
In others words, nearly everything Jews came to believe in by the time of Christ which isn't in the Tanakh (excepting Daniel) appears largely to be due to Zoroastrian influence. But the Tanakh itself, aside from the Book of Daniel and Isaiah 45's firm "no", appears largely untouched by Zoroastrian thought.
Here is something I found explaining the Zoroastrian influence on Judaism. The whole article is informative, but here is snippet:
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism
That is true, although I suspect the Jewish exiles would be immersed in Persian culture while only transferring a smidgen or two of Jewish culture in the other direction. I think most of the Jewish influence would be in cooking, art, music, crafts, etc. Religious jobs would probably be closed to Jews, so their influence would be small. Meanwhile the Jews would be under great pressure to adopt the culture and religion of the Persians.I would also point out that I find it highly unlikely that two civilizations were in such close contact but that the influence only went one way. One could argue that there would be influence going both ways so that some of the ideas we see as parallels could originate in either.
2. The 10 Commandments, remember the most important one "thou will have NO OTHER Gods before me"
That is true, although I suspect the Jewish exiles would be immersed in Persian culture while only transferring a smidgen or two of Jewish culture in the other direction. I think most of the Jewish influence would be in cooking, art, music, crafts, etc. Religious jobs would probably be closed to Jews, so their influence would be small. Meanwhile the Jews would be under great pressure to adopt the culture and religion of the Persians.
Also, if we agree that the Jews were originally polytheistic and at most monolatrous, then dualism was inherent. There was the good god Yahweh and the bad gods of the foreigners.
"Weasel words"?!!! I prefer to call them "qualifiers"I see a lot of weasel words in there. Probably, I think, and the like.
"Weasel words"?!!! I prefer to call them "qualifiers"
That is a good idea. There is also Judaism under Islam that might be well documented. I believe the conquered Jews contributed to medicine, science, etc. It would be interesting to see how much Judaism influenced Islam after the conquest (obviously Judaism influenced Islam simply by being a parent religion). Philosophy affects theology, so that might be a likely area of influence.If you really want to see how the external forces imprinted themselves on Judaism, don't reach into the time without or with scant sources. Instead, look at the time with a plentiful source material. Look at the Judaism as a part of the Roman society, examine the early middle ages and the influence they left on the Jewish thought. There is an excellent chance and an easy case to make that the early Jewish history and the Babylonian episode closely mirrored the later developments.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?