Maybe it's time to define, "Fall Away". Is it always the same meaning/use?

[Butterball1]

I believe in Universal Reconciliation. There is no SOME. God has ALREADY reconciled all things to himself through Christ. (things on earth and things in heaven) Peace was made on the cross.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

'reconcile all things to Himself' is not referring to Universalism. It means to reconcile fully, that is, the reconcilliation that Christ's offers is not lacking or incomplete. When one becomes saved/reconciled then they are fully saved not partially saved.

--God does not need to be reconciled to man, but man needs to be reconciled to God. God loved man so much that God in the flesh of Jesus Christ came down to earth to bring about this reconcilliation Himself.

--the need to be REconciled also shows that a man was not always separated from God. Men are not born lost, unforgiven sinners but instead born in a innocent, sinless state. As infants age and intellectually mature learning right from wrong then men become accountable to God's laws and CHOOSE to sin in transgressing God's law thereby separating himself from God putting man in need of reconciliation that only comes through Christ.

--reconcile "ALL THINGS". This does means that ALL men COULD be saved therefore salvation is not just for SOME as Calvinism wrongly claims. Yet the verse does NOT say "all things" will automatically, UNCONDITIONALLY be saved/reconciled to God. You are reading the idea of "unconditional reconcilliation" into the verse. God has put preconditions on salvation/reconcilliation those being belief (John 8:24) repentance (Luke 13:3) confession (Matthew 10:32-33) baptism (Mark 16:16). Though the reconcilliation is for 'all things' most will reject the preconditions God put upon it.

 

[Butterball1]

How are such things measured? Do you never have doubts?

People's faith can sometimes waver,(James 1:6) but as long as they do not cast aside their faith altogether but hold fast (Hebrews 10:23) they will be saved.

 

[Butterball1]

"Salvation by works" would be salvation to eternal life NOT as a free gift by grace, but a conditional offer for which we have to do something to either earn it, or keep it. Are you claiming that salvation is by works?

Saint Steven said: ↑
You are claiming salvation is by works, then?

If by "salvation by works" one is trying to earn, merit salvation, then I have never said such nor does the Bible teach such an idea.

What the Bible shows and what I have said is salvation is a CONDITIONAL free gift and meeting the preconditions does NOT earn the free gift. I have already given every day examples and examples from the Bible that prove this point in earlier posts. Again, Heb 11 by FAITH Noah MOVED with fear PREPARED an ark to (eis - in order) save his household.
Noah' faith was a obedient work as seen in building the ark as God commanded him. Yet this obedient work did NOT earn the free gift of the salvation of his household. Nowhere ever in the Bible is one's obedience to God's will to earn them anything. Matthew 7:21 clearly says one has to DO the will of God to enter the kingdom. For those that deny the plain, everyday truth and fact that free gifts can come with preconditions then they put themselves in the position that they must see that this verse is teaching salvation/entering the kingdom is something earned by one's doing.

 

[Saint Steven]

'reconcile all things to Himself' is not referring to Universalism. It means to reconcile fully, that is, the reconcilliation that Christ's offers is not lacking or incomplete. When one becomes saved/reconciled then they are fully saved not partially saved.

--God does not need to be reconciled to man, but man needs to be reconciled to God. God loved man so much that God in the flesh of Jesus Christ came down to earth to bring about this reconcilliation Himself.

--the need to be REconciled also shows that a man was not always separated from God. Men are not born lost, unforgiven sinners but instead born in a innocent, sinless state. As infants age and intellectually mature learning right from wrong then men become accountable to God's laws and CHOOSE to sin in transgressing God's law thereby separating himself from God putting man in need of reconciliation that only comes through Christ.

--reconcile "ALL THINGS". This does means that ALL men COULD be saved therefore salvation is not just for SOME as Calvinism wrongly claims. Yet the verse does NOT say "all things" will automatically, UNCONDITIONALLY be saved/reconciled to God. You are reading the idea of "unconditional reconcilliation" into the verse. God has put preconditions on salvation/reconcilliation those being belief (John 8:24) repentance (Luke 13:3) confession (Matthew 10:32-33) baptism (Mark 16:16). Though the reconcilliation is for 'all things' most will reject the preconditions God put upon it.

This clearly says that Christ has reconciled (is reconciling) all things to himself. And all things is defined as all things "whether things on earth or things in heaven". So, EVERYTHING on earth and in heaven.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

 

[Butterball1]

And in the context He said that He wasn’t only praying for His disciples. And Judas was never His. He was the son of perdition.

Luke 6:13,16 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;...And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
his is a possessive pronoun, Judas was 'His disciple" belong to Christ. Judas was given to Christ, kept by Christ just as the other Apostles.

 

[Butterball1]

No, you replied to my post, but you in no way answered the question. If even you had said “no, and here’s why,” that would have been an answer.


No, again. I ask the questions because if you actually answered them according to scripture, you’d see the flaw in your position. I want you to embrace the truth.


I’m not suggesting anything. I’ve shown that the Father gives sheep to His Son (because you wouldn’t answer the question), and I’ve shown that Christ prays for His people (because you wouldn’t answer the question).

I answered all questions. Again, just beause they were not answered in a specific way you thought they should have been does not mean they were not answered.

 

[Saint Steven]

What the Bible shows and what I have said is salvation is a CONDITIONAL free gift...

Plain and simple. If it is conditional, it is not free.

One has to receive the free gift to take possession of it. But I don't consider that to be a conditional requirement. Some would disagree.

If one still has a gift under the Christmas tree from last year, it is still available without conditions. (assuming things were left as they were) They only need to receive it. There are no conditions that need to be met first.

 

[Butterball1]

This clearly says that Christ has reconciled (is reconciling) all things to himself. And all things is defined as all things "whether things on earth or things in heaven". So, EVERYTHING on earth and in heaven.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

The way men might be reconcilled to God happened in the past when Christ went to the cross. Those who obeyed back then (as those Colossians) and those who obey presently are being reconcilled to God. But it does not say that all men will unconditionally be reconciled to God. Colossians 1:21 those Christians in Collosae had been reconciled but not unconditionally. They had been alienated from God and were outside of Christ meaning no salvation/reconcilliation outside of Christ. Not everyone universally are in Christ and one must CONDITIONALLY be baptized to be in Christ, Galatians 3:27.

 

[Butterball1]

Plain and simple. If it is conditional, it is not free.

Facts and reality prove that not to be true.

One has to receive the free gift to take possession of it. But I don't consider that to be a conditional requirement. Some would disagree.

It most certainly is a requirement, a necessity. I can give you a new truck. I owe you nothing but giving it to you out of my good grace. Want the truck? Then go to XYZ car dealer and ask for Joe and he will give you the title and keys. If you say no or sit and do nothing then you reject the gift. But to receive the gift requires you do something and going to the dealer to get the title and keys earns you nothing. When you get there Joe will freely give you the title and keys for nothing, you pay nothing,it;s free and your work going there did not take away from the freeness of the gift at all.

If one still has a gift under the Christmas tree from last year, it is still available without conditions. (assuming things were left as they were) They only need to receive it. There are no conditions that need to be met first.

If one is given a free gift but will not unwrap and unbox it, that is the same as not wanting the gift. To receive the gift one must do the work of unwrapping, unboxing in order to have it.

 

[Hammster]

Luke 6:13,16 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;...And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
his is a possessive pronoun, Judas was 'His disciple" belong to Christ. Judas was given to Christ, kept by Christ just as the other Apostles.

Son of Perdition.

 

[Hammster]

I answered all questions. Again, just beause they were not answered in a specific way you thought they should have been does not mean they were not answered.

Nope. You never answered a single one.

 

[Saint Steven]

Not everyone universally are in Christ and one must CONDITIONALLY be baptized to be in Christ, Galatians 3:27.

Are you claiming that salvation is in baptism now? What became of believe (first) and be baptized? Or are you referring to infant baptism?

 

[Saint Steven]

Facts and reality prove that not to be true.

Do you mean to say there really is no "free" lunch? - lol

Saint Steven said: ↑
Plain and simple. If it is conditional, it is not free.