Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I answered in saying it is Christ's preceptive will that you, me and all men be saved.Once again, you don’t answer a question. So once again, does Christ pray that you won’t lose faith?
You assume that you are owed a reason. God doesn’t owe us any explanation as to why He does anything.These verses do not give a basis. It says God does things after the counsel of His will but does not give a basis to God's will as to why He willed to save one person but not another.
I know how you answered. But you didn’t answer the actual question.I answered in saying it is Christ's preceptive will that you, me and all men be saved.
Can you tell me what Christ is praying about right now?
I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.Can you tell me what Christ is praying about right now?
For whom was the lamb slain before the foundations of the world? He died for us before creation. How random and unconditional is that?God NEVER UNconditionally, randomly saved men to begin with so God would not undo what He never done.
And what does the good shepherd do for those lost sheep? Aren't they the ones you claim will not be saved because they didn't endure to the end?Those that continue to believe, continue to hear and follow Christ John 10:27 are Christ sheep. It's those that wander away in unbelief that become lost.
You are claiming salvation is by works, then?Your argument is dead on this one point. Free gifts can and often do come with precondition, this is a fact and reality in life. I gave some examples in a prior post about the store offering free ice cream but one must still do the work in going to the store and ordering in order to receive the free gift. And the work did not take anything away from the 'freeness' of the gift for it was still given to me for free (no charge at all) even though I did a necessary work.
Hebrews 11:7 the salvation of Noah's house from the flood was a free gift for God certainly did not owe that to Noah, Yet for Noah to receive that free gift God put the precondition that Noah first build the are IN ORDER to receive the gift. No obedient work = will not receive the free gift.
Nowhere EVER in the OT or NT is it said that one's obedience to God in order to receive God's free gift eanrs God's free gift. If God's free gift (grace/salvation) were totally UNconditional then all men would universally be saved (Titus 2:11). But that is not the case (Matthew 7:13) because salvation is not UNconditional thus those not meeting the condition of faith/obedience will suffer God's wrath in flaming fire, (2 Thessalonians 1:8).
Define what YOU mean by the phrase "salvation by works".You are claiming salvation is by works, then?
If one continues to believe he will not become lost for believers are the ones that "shall be saved" (Mark 16:16). It is those who stop believing altogether that become lost.And what does the good shepherd do for those lost sheep? Aren't they the ones you claim will not be saved because they didn't endure to the end?
Saint Steven said: ↑
Why did the good shepherd leave the ninety-nine to go after the one lost sheep? Did the lost sheep "continue to believe"?
I never said anything about Christ' death being random. The issue is Calvinism claims Christ only died for SOME and only that SOME will be saved. So what basis was used to determine who would or would not be of that SOME?For whom was the lamb slain before the foundations of the world? He died for us before creation. How random and unconditional is that?
Jesus prayed that disciples be ONE therefore Jesus did not teach the idea of demoninationalism.I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
— John 17:11
“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
— John 17:20-21
“Keep them in Your name”. It appears that you overlooked that part.Jesus prayed that disciples be ONE therefore Jesus did not teach the idea of demoninationalism.
So what is your point here?
I answered the question. Just because I did not answer it in away you think I should does not mean I did not answer the question.I know how you answered. But you didn’t answer the actual question.
You assume that you are owed a reason. God doesn’t owe us any explanation as to why He does anything.
In the context, Jesus is specifically speaking about the Aposltes who God gave Jesus and He kept. John 17:12. Judas was among those given to Christ meaning Judas had been given eternal life (John 17:2), Judas kept God's word (John 17:6), Judas belonged to God (John 17:9) Judas was kept by Christ John 17:12) but ended being lost for he did not maintain a present tense belief therefore by transgression fell Acts 1:25.“Keep them in Your name”. It appears that you overlooked that part.
No, you replied to my post, but you in no way answered the question. If even you had said “no, and here’s why,” that would have been an answer.I answered the question. Just because I did not answer it in away you think I should does not mean I did not answer the question.
No, again. I ask the questions because if you actually answered them according to scripture, you’d see the flaw in your position. I want you to embrace the truth.You obviously ask these questions for in you mind you have laid some trap for me and wait for me to take the bait. Instead of taking your bait I give a Biblical answer to the question.
Are you trying to suggest Jesus prays to God that I be saved. Since Jesus is God therefore Jesus is praying to Himself I be saved but if I am lost then Jesus denies His own prayers. Is this your little trap you tried to set for me?
And in the context He said that He wasn’t only praying for His disciples. And Judas was never His. He was the son of perdition.In the context, Jesus is specifically speaking about the Aposltes who God gave Jesus and He kept. John 17:12. Judas was among those given to Christ meaning Judas had been given eternal life (John 17:2), Judas kept God's word (John 17:6), Judas belonged to God (John 17:9) Judas was kept by Christ John 17:12) but ended being lost for he did not maintain a present tense belief therefore by transgression fell Acts 1:25.
"Salvation by works" would be salvation to eternal life NOT as a free gift by grace, but a conditional offer for which we have to do something to either earn it, or keep it. Are you claiming that salvation is by works?Define what YOU mean by the phrase "salvation by works".
How are such things measured? Do you never have doubts?If one continues to believe he will not become lost for believers are the ones that "shall be saved" (Mark 16:16). It is those who stop believing altogether that become lost.
I believe in Universal Reconciliation. There is no SOME. God has ALREADY reconciled all things to himself through Christ. (things on earth and things in heaven) Peace was made on the cross.I never said anything about Christ' death being random. The issue is Calvinism claims Christ only died for SOME and only that SOME will be saved. So what basis was used to determine who would or would not be of that SOME?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?