Maybe I was a Christian, maybe not.

[notinvain]

I do not beleive that I am a Christian, though I beleive there is no other way to God. I believe in Jesus and I pray only now to God that he will reveal the true gospel message to me.

Here are the things I have been taught through out my life and my current stand on them.

I have prayed the sinners prayer and I don't beleive in praying a prayer to recieve salvation.
I had begged God to forgive me for my sin and have at several points felt like I started to actually live the righteous life that God called me to.
I sang songs to God with great fervor, I was very emotional when parts came up about what Christ did for me. I had cried over my sin, I had prayed for forgiveness, but I never really changed. I still was always a slave to my same old sin.

Then I started going to a church that I now refer to as a cult, (though I knew then that people called it that, I never thought that when I was there of course) they convinced me that because I was not a disciple of Christ and not making disciples that I was not a Christian, I fell for it. I was taught that Water Baptism was a part of salvation, though it took weeks for them to change my thoughts on that because I always thought Baptism was for show and nothing else. They also taught that if you didnt believe the bible the way they taught it, you were also not a Christian (therefore saying that they were the only true church). To make a really long story short this group has all but fallen to peices and I fell with the peices.

Now I am back to my old ways (which I started back into while in this cult/church) and have all but turned away from God. I have studied the New Testament for what I feel has been signifigant enough time to realign my thoughts and think in different ways about Modern Day Christianity. Not only am I basically "in more sin" than I ever have been, I also am beginning to think that there is no true Church currently known to be practicing "biblical Christainity". I have a hard time letting go of God, though I have thought many times of just forgetting that Christianty even exists. For some reason I can't forget and I am wondering if God will send someone to help me, but so far no luck. I have posted and debated here on this website until I have come to this one conclusion:

That Men can't agree about anything (esp. Christianity) because we all think we are right and we are willing to fight it until we are blue in the face and all but fist fighting. I know why Christ prayed so intently to God about us all getting along and being united, because he knows as humans we are addicted to PRIDE and hardly any of us are willing to forget our pride and humble out and really listen to what each other is trying to say. I am willing to listen to anyone who has biblical sense as to what they beleive to the point where they can quote the scripture and 10 more to back it up in a moments notice. Otherwise, I beleive that most men are under either Gods powerful delusion, or under the will and control of Satan for one simple fact: that Christianity is the most divided religion in all the world- exactly what the creator of the religion prayed againts!

Sorry for the long post, but can anyone help?

 

[LegomasterJC]

I can tell you now that there are churches of all denominations and nondenominations that are biblical churches. There are also the ones that have false ideas like that one you talked about but don't give up on all churches just because you went to one that was wrong. My parents have been to some like that too. They sensed the falseness and went on to other churches. The one we go to now is a good one with people who still need to work with their issues but as a whole the church is based on the Bible and we love to get togeather with other churches too. This coming Wednesday Third day is coming here so the regular meeting is cancled so everyone has the oportunity to go worship at the Civic Center.

 

[Serapha]

I do not beleive that I am a Christian, though I beleive there is no other way to God. I believe in Jesus and I pray only now to God that he will reveal the true gospel message to me.

Here are the things I have been taught through out my life and my current stand on them.

I have prayed the sinners prayer and I don't beleive in praying a prayer to recieve salvation.
I had begged God to forgive me for my sin and have at several points felt like I started to actually live the righteous life that God called me to.
I sang songs to God with great fervor, I was very emotional when parts came up about what Christ did for me. I had cried over my sin, I had prayed for forgiveness, but I never really changed. I still was always a slave to my same old sin.

Then I started going to a church that I now refer to as a cult, (though I knew then that people called it that, I never thought that when I was there of course) they convinced me that because I was not a disciple of Christ and not making disciples that I was not a Christian, I fell for it. I was taught that Water Baptism was a part of salvation, though it took weeks for them to change my thoughts on that because I always thought Baptism was for show and nothing else. They also taught that if you didnt believe the bible the way they taught it, you were also not a Christian (therefore saying that they were the only true church). To make a really long story short this group has all but fallen to peices and I fell with the peices.

Now I am back to my old ways (which I started back into while in this cult/church) and have all but turned away from God. I have studied the New Testament for what I feel has been signifigant enough time to realign my thoughts and think in different ways about Modern Day Christianity. Not only am I basically "in more sin" than I ever have been, I also am beginning to think that there is no true Church currently known to be practicing "biblical Christainity". I have a hard time letting go of God, though I have thought many times of just forgetting that Christianty even exists. For some reason I can't forget and I am wondering if God will send someone to help me, but so far no luck. I have posted and debated here on this website until I have come to this one conclusion:

That Men can't agree about anything (esp. Christianity) because we all think we are right and we are willing to fight it until we are blue in the face and all but fist fighting. I know why Christ prayed so intently to God about us all getting along and being united, because he knows as humans we are addicted to PRIDE and hardly any of us are willing to forget our pride and humble out and really listen to what each other is trying to say. I am willing to listen to anyone who has biblical sense as to what they beleive to the point where they can quote the scripture and 10 more to back it up in a moments notice. Otherwise, I beleive that most men are under either Gods powerful delusion, or under the will and control of Satan for one simple fact: that Christianity is the most divided religion in all the world- exactly what the creator of the religion prayed againts!

Sorry for the long post, but can anyone help?

Hi there!



I am more concerned with you knowing and understanding your eternal state than in whether you will ever find a church that is true to Bible teachings.

If you are seeking a Bible-believing church, then pick up the phone and start calling churches. Then ask questions. When a Pastor begins his reponse with "What does the Word of God say?" rather than some doctrinal teaching, then you have probably found a Bible-believing church.

I have prayed the sinners prayer and I don't beleive in praying a prayer to recieve salvation.
I had begged God to forgive me for my sin and have at several points felt like I started to actually live the righteous life that God called me to.
I sang songs to God with great fervor, I was very emotional when parts came up about what Christ did for me. I had cried over my sin, I had prayed for forgiveness, but I never really changed. I still was always a slave to my same old sin.

If there isn't a time in your life that you can point to, and say... that is when I was redeemed, saved by my faith in Jesus Christ as my personal Savior....

If there isn't a time in your life when you can point to, and say... my life changed at that time because the Spirit of God came to indwell in my and He leads me, guides me, and I know the voice of God's Spirit...


If you don't know that if you died right now where you would spend eternity... and know that it was in the presence of God


Then, my friend, you probably are not saved.


Saying the sinner's prayer doesn't change the heart, nor does the act of baptism cleanse your soul, or partaking of the Lord's Supper or the Host give you eternal life.


You are redeemed and reconciled to God by faith alone. You can know that you know you are saved... but it is a FACT and not a FEELING.

Have you ever just claimed the promises of God for salvation? Seeking forgiveness and asking for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in your heart and life. We don't change ourselves, but we change through the Spirit of God leading and guiding us by the indwelling Spirit, and by doing what God calls us to do by the infilling of the Holy Spirit... or gifts... or the empowerment of God.

If you don't know that moment in your life when you were saved, and that your life changed by the power of God, then I recommend that you seek God right now, because if you can't point to that time, then this moment is your time.

I'm praying for you. If you need counsel, then PM a moderator or one of the people responding here.


~serapha~

 

[CSMR]

You have a desire to be released from sin, and a sense that such release can be found in Christ which is excellent and hopeful.
The issues that I think will clarify your situation if answered are:
What is sin, what does it mean to say that we are sinners, what is the righteousness that we can expect in Christ. That is what is the real nature of the problem, and what is the divine solution?
You say that you thought that you started to live the righteous life that God called you to, but were actually still a slave to your old sin. I think that must be so - to think you live a righteous life to any extent is wrong. Righteousness is never of us but only of God, and granted to us by mercy. That is because righteousness is not about actions, but about having a willing and loving obedience to the will of God, and such is lacking in us.
My advice here is: do not try to become righteous in yourself - you have tried already and found that it is a deception. I also tried and found the same. At every communion I thought that I may be forgiven for now, but that God would not look kindly on me if I did not try to abandon my current sins - but I never became better despite thinking that I tried. Rigteouness is not possible for us - except that God grant us His righteousness as an act of grace.
Christians are always unrighteous, and always seeking the righteousness that is given in Christ. We are sinners, but we are not slaves to sin, because we are not spiritually under the power of sin and death but look forward to a new life through the death and ressurection of Jesus Christ.
Your signature says that you are afraid of a wrong understanding of the gospel "granting the sinful nature opportunitay to develop". This is a good fear, since if we forget the law of God and cease to be repentant then we are again a slave to sin and not under grace. But it is not quite accurate in that sin itself cannot develop because except through Christ we are completely in sin and sin cannot increase or decrease.

If we know how bad our situation of sin is, then acknowledging it in repentance is following the first part of Jesus' advice "repent and believe". I don't know whether it is strange or familiar to you. If you are not convinced of anything say so and I will try to provide scriptural justification.

 

[NacDan]

The only qualification for becoming a Christian is to be a sinner. Sounds like you have that covered! (We ALL do.)

You are doing some things very right. One, you admit that you are a sinner; and two, you are asking God to reveal the Truth to you.

The Truth of Salvation will be revealed to you, and you will be released from sin through the sacrifice of Christ Jesus (as you already believe).

One thing I would like to add. Being "released from sin" is a process, not an event. It also requires a lot of work from us. There is a Christian church in your area that can and will help you. I've got friends that have been going to a different church every month for several years looking for where they need to be.

Personally, I like hanging out at the Vineyard.

Danny

I am praying for you.

 

[Ben johnson]

Hi, "Notinvain"! First, I would like to sincerely commend you for making this post; it took courage, and it exposes a heart that is open to God. That is an excellent foundation!

Do you understand what salvation, IS? This is a very serious question. Look at Matt7:21-23, and then at Rev3:14-22. Here are examples of those who truly thought they WERE saved, but WERE NOT! It is with extreme sadness that I consider a large number of church-goers, as having no idea what salvation really is.

"Born again".

Ever heard that? 'Course you have. Everyone has, Christian or not. Hollywood says it often. What is it?

What if you had to reduce salvation, to ONE WORD? A single utterance that completely sums up all that Jesus said, all that Matthew and Mark and Luke and John and James and Peter and Jude and Paul wrote. Can you?

"Obedience". That's how some answer. A good answer; but what is BEHIND obedience? What founds it?

"Faith". That's good too. But what is the DYNAMIC of faith? How does belief work, what is the structure?

"Love!" That's good too; but how does love operate? What is on the same level as love, inseparable from it? What is the connection between us, God, and love? What's the word?

Look in 1Jn1:3, and 6-7; there it is. "Our FELLOWSHIP is with the Father, and with His Son, Jesus Christ". Salvation, is a fellowship of love.

So what does "born again" mean? Jesus says "you can't enter Heaven without it". Jn3:3. You see, when Jesus DIED, it is as if we died with Him. The last word Jesus uttered on the Cross (and it was one word, not three) --- was "TETELESTAI". In Jesus' time, a person was thrown into prison for debt; your charges were written onto a paper. When you would get out or prison, they would write on your "charge", "TETELESTAI! DEBT PAID!!!" This is the meaning of Col2:14, where "Jesus cancelled out our certtificate of debt ('the wages of sin are death!' Rm6:23), He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the Cross."

Tetelestai. Jesus said, "I have PAID YOUR DEBT! With My own blood! I died, THAT YOU COULD LIVE! And I am resurrected! BE RESURRECTED WITH ME!!!!!"

In Romans 6 is the very definition of "born again". He uses 5 words interchangeably: "crucified", "buried", "died", "immersed", and "united" ('baptiso' only means 'immersed', and has nothing to do with water --- we are immersed, in JESUS). United into His DEATH. We are, truly, when "In Christ", we are "dead to sin".

Now look at verse 4 --- we are also truly united with His RESURRECTION!!!

So --- how does all this work? What is the mechanism, the process?

Look at Romans 10:9-10: "If you confess Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." The word, "LORD", means "master" --- it is the "uniting with Christ" in Romans.

You see, NIV, salvation is fellowship of love, with the INDWELLING PERSON of Jesus Christ. You invite Him literally into your heart. "Abide in Me, and I in you!" Jn15:4 The real person of Jesus, who thinks, feels, laughs, even cries; communing with us in an indwelt fellowship.

Also --- the Holy Spirit indwells us --- see Matt3:11-12. Here too "baptizo", means "immersed in the Spirit", rather than "water-baptism".

Belief is what receives the Lord, and the Spirit. Belief that humbles us as children (Matt18:3-4), that repents (Lk13:3), that does the will of God (Matt7:21). Notice that each of those is written like that Jn3:3 verse, "Unless _____, you won't go to Heaven". But it is Jn3:3, "born again", under which all the others reside.

What does that mean, "fellowship of love"? It means you spend time with Him. PRAY!

1. Praise and worship --- God deserves it, craves it, it's why we were created; He inhabits praise!
2. Confession-repentance. We walk in repentance, confess our sins, He FORGIVES us (1Jn1:9). And THEN --- God does something really incredible, spectacular. "I will forgive their sins, and I will REMEMBER THEM NO MORE!!! God FORGETS that we EVER SINNED!!!!! The infinite omnipotent omniscient omnipresent God-of-the-Universe, FORGETS OUR SINS!

God does not run a "game-show, "Not-in-vain". If there is a sin that you don't remember (thus don't specifically confess), repentance is an attitude in which you abide; never doubt that all sins are forgiven for those who seek His face.

3. Thanksgiving. I really think unthankfulness is the ROOT of sin. No husband cheats when he is truly thankful for his wife. No wife pines for diamonds and fancy cars who is thankful for what she has. (And vice-versa!) God never tires of hearing "THANK YOU!", thankfulness is the heart of humility.

4. FELLOWSHIP! Do you realize, NIV, that as you delight in God's presence, He delights in YOURS?! The God of the Universe, ENJOYING YOUR COMPANY! He truly does. Come into His presence tonight, and know that He is in your presence also! Right there, loving you, holding you in His arms!!!

"Greater love has no one, than to lay down his life for his friends. (That's what Jesus did, for YOU, NIV!) And you ARE My friends, if you do what I command you." Jn15:13-14

5. Intercession. Prayer moves God, melts hearts that have been hardened against Him, and changes us --- into what we need to be to witness to the world. You cannot pray for others, and NOT increase in your love for them. Pray for your friends, your family, your government; AND YOUR ENEMIES!!! Knowing, that without His grace, you also would be condemned. No one who has breath is beyond hope; no one is worthless to God.

LOVE your enemies, as Jesus loved His; His enemies KILLED Him, MURDERED Him. And in the MIDST of that, Jesus said: "Father, forgive them; they don't know what they're doing." We are required to love them, and to forgive --- in the sense that we hold no anger and release them to God.

6. Last --- AND least --- pettition. How often prayer only begins and ends with this! He's not a "cosmic Santa", He's our DAD. He already knows your needs; and has promised to meet them. But He wants us to ASK. Matt7:7-8 says "ask and you will receive". James4:2-3 says "you do not have because you do not ask; or you ask with wrong motives to spend it on your passions." Psalm37:4 says, "delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart."

If you delight in the Lord, your desires will be His desires...

Indwelt, saved fellowship; spending time with Him, spending time in the Word. It was written by average men, intended to be read by ordinary people. Read John, Romans; then the other Gospels, Acts, and the rest; so much wisdom just waiting there for you to drink up!

RE "waterbaptism" --- it is an "outward sign, to fulfil righteousness". Yet, it is the "calling on His NAME" that forgives sins, not the water (Acts22:16).

If waterbaptism was part OF salvation, then how was Cornelius, friends and family, saved BEFORE being dipped, in Acts10:43-48? They were saved, before the water.

I think you will enjoy Romans, NIV. "No excuse" is in ch1, "born again" ch6, "war between the OLD and the NEW natures" ch7, "solution to the war (walking in flesh and DIE, or by the Spirit putting to death the things of the flesh and LIVE)" in ch8. Salvation open to more than Jews in 9, faith from hearing (beliving with the heart) ch10. Israel, and "belief-unbelief" (cut off by unbelief, restored by returning to belief) in ch11. Paul was communicationg the whole of the Christian experience.

Anyone who knows me here, knows that I love to discuss salvation; specifically, the question of whether you can be saved, and ever become UNSAVED. But you are right--- there is enough agreement in BEING saved, that we can lay aside differences, denominations, and minor beliefs. If we agree on "salvation by grace through faith, with the indwelt Savior and indwelt Spirit, that we are required to be righteous (HE is our righteousness IN us -- 2Cor5:21), and to grow and to love God and to truly love each other --- then we can lay aside our differences and fellowship together, and worship our common LORD.

This is the simplicity of salvation; "Christ in you". It's not "what you know", but "WHO you know". And Who knows you.

Religion says "Jesus isn't God, and salvation is by works". Christianity says "Jesus is God-became-man, and salvation is grace --- works flow FROM a saved heart".

Religion: "You are what you do".
Christianity: "You do what you are".

God bless you for posting this, Notinvain! There are no silly questions; only some silly answers. (I don't believe my answer has been silly!)

 

[SilverHand]

WOW !! I truly hope you read all of the previous posts. I couldent put it any better myself. Iv just rededicated my life to Christ and know the struggle
that you are going through. At least i think i do. Before i went back to church i really started to pray and read the Bible. ALOT !! I decided to let God be my guide and consience. Not to listen to mans version of what he thinks God said or meant. If what any man says (I.E preacher)does not jive with the Word of God or comes into conflict with it. Dont listen and get out faster than superman from a burning building. The church is for worshiping God and learning ( His ) Word. Not mans interpretation of it. I have a great resorce on my computer that i just downloaded. Its called e-sword. Its almost all totaly free. Only a few things there have a fee. Everything i have from it are free. The link to it is http://www.e-sword.net/ It contains many difrent versions of the Bible as well as difrent dictionarys and comentarys of the Bible. You can do a search of any scripture or verse. Find out what it means.And it comes from people , christian people who searve God !! It is pretty simple to use, and comes with a guide on how to use it. And with all this said, dont forsake the fellowship of the bretheren. The church exists for a reason. We need to hold each other accountable. To help our brothers and sisters in times of need. To encourage and support each other in our strugles and walk with Christ.
Just remember, Man is a sinner by nature, God is perfect.
Have faith and trust in the Lord !! God Bless you

 

[Ben johnson]

Here is a foundational truth. God does not require us to be strong for Him. All He asks --- is to let HIM, be strong in, and THROUGH, US!

"The Lord is my strength and my song; and He has become my salvation!" Psalm118:14

 

[Evee]

Here is a foundational truth. God does not require us to be strong for Him. All He asks --- is to let HIM, be strong in, and THROUGH, US!

"The Lord is my strength and my song; and He has become my salvation!" Psalm118:14

That is right Ben.
We can't do it it is God in us.
Where is that scripture by paul saying he wanted to do right but always does the opposite.
That sounds like most of us christians... we have the desire to follow God.

 

[CSMR]

That's in Romans 7.

 

[equal-minded]

sorry i cant be much help quoting the bible-wise but prayer helps all the time. I'll be praying for you man

 

[Ben johnson]

Where is that scripture by paul saying he wanted to do right but always does the opposite.
That sounds like most of us christians... we have the desire to follow God.

That's in Romans 7.

Hi, Evee! Always a delight to see you!

CSMR is right (happy birthday!) --- Rom7 speaks of the "war, we try to do right but do the very wrong we don't wanna do". And Rom8 is the solution --- walking not by the flesh, but by the Spirit putting to death the deeds of the flesh.

BY THE SPIRIT. Not our power, but His power in and through us. That's really important. Don't be strong for Him, let Him be strong in you! Through Him, we are the righteousness of God! 2Cor5:21

Look at this one: "We walk by FAITH, and not by SIGHT" (2Cor5:7) --- faith in Him, in His plan and perfect direction!

God did what we, weak and imperfect, could not do. (Rm8:3) We walk in Him, by faith. Our faith is in Him!

 

[notinvain]

I appreciate what you guys wrote and I probably should just accept mainline Christianity and what it says about salvation and hope that God won't hold us accountable for our actions while here on earth. Please try not to take offense to what I am saying, I have been burned by mainline Christianity as well as "extreem veiw churches". I though have had a hard time accepting the follow general statements or beliefs from different "Christian" veiws; (my responses are not because of what I was taught by other men in the past but because of what I haved now learned from personal study and reflection of Gods word)

1. I don't beleive that salvation is a result of our desire to be saved or to be forgiven (ie like merely praying or asking God for forgiveness or salvation- to me that is still "doing something"- having Faith is even "doing something") From my studying I have understood that salvation is a result of our response to the gift that God offers to all who would come after his son. It also follows our obeidience to Christ' commands and is a result of our decision to do a 180* turn around (repentance from sin) made possible because of the conviction we recieve from the Holy Spirit and also to the accusation that I personally contributed to the crucifiction of the son of the living God (simply because of my horrible condition with slavery to sin.)
2. That we are not able to obtain righteousness or Holiness while in our flesh
I believe that Christ died to set me free from the reign of sin in my life and he has prepared a way for me to overcome the temptations of Satan that would otherwise cause me to trample the precious blood of Jesus under my feet. That once we move on from the elementary teachings of Christ that we become sanctified and are capable of living lives worthy of the calling we have recieved. Righteous and upright lives, not figurativly speaking but literally because of what God promises us; That he will never allow us to be tempted beyond what we can handle, that he will always provide a way out!
3. That scripture can be interpreted in many different ways but as long as we agree on A, B, and C then it is ok to disagree on the rest. I don't beleive that one particular group has or can indepently understand "the simple and true gospel message" and claim exlusive rights to the discovery of its meaning.

For what its worth.................

 

[themantheycallcris]

1 John 4:19 "We love, because He first loved us."

I agree that it's more about our response. Our response, however, should be that desire to be saved, as well as our obedience. most people overlook the fact that the only time the phrase "faith alone" is used in the bible is in James 2:24: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." Others believe they are going to heaven because they believe they are EARNING it in their works. We could not have either that faith, or the ability to do those works, if not for God giving both to us by His mercy and grace. and we cannot be justified if lacking either.

if you truly seek the wisdom of God, and believe He'll give it to you, ask of Him and believe you'll recieve it. keep in mind that the "name and claim" doctrine commonly taught leaves out Jesus' teachings in John 15:7 "IF YOU ABIDE IN ME, AND MY WORDS ABIDE IN YOU, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you." and the passage in Psalms 37:3-6 "3 Trust in the LORD and do good; Dwell in the land and cultivate faithfulness. 4 Delight yourself in the LORD; And He will give you the desires of your heart. 5 Commit your way to the LORD, Trust also in Him, and He will do it. 6 He will bring forth your righteousness as the light And your judgment as the noonday."

I will say that the Scripture has clearly shown water baptism is the point at which you recieve salvation, if it is accompanied by faith in Christ, repentance, and confessing Him before men, as well as faithfullness unto the end. the water doesn't wash the sins away of course (and i have never heard anybody teach such a thing anyway), but it is the point at which we come into contact with the Blood of Christ. if you want a list of some of the Scriptures, message me and i'll send them to you. i can call you if you want to and we can talk, but my words do not have the power of God's words, and His words will not return to Him without accomplishing their purpose.

I encourage you never to settle for anything less than Christ and His perfect truth. Agreed, nobody has a market on His truth, except those who honestly accept the Bible. however, i've yet to meet anyone, self-included, who has understood all correctly and who will never misunderstand till the day they die. there are things we can know for sure now, and there are many who are wrong about them. the Scripture said this would be the case. I do believe in one true church, as the bible teaches, and i don't believe in our failed attempts at creeds and organizations that are not in the Bible. read the bible, don't loose the simplicity in Christ, pray to Him, and seek out people who accept the Bible above all, even above their opinions. seek out people who are willing to believe the Bible even when they don't understand it, and who are not out for self. seek out people who obey the word, and are repentant when they don't. i have found such people where i am at, if you're in the seattle area let me know, and please visit. if you're not in the seattle area, i can ask the elders here if they know of any faithful churches in your area (if i don't know them i obviously can't guarantee they are faithfull, but our elders are pretty good about seeking out others who teach the Bible.) You don't have to settle for mainline christianity, or any denomination. Settle only on Christ, the source of true christianity. God has offered us the one Truth, and thank God when we get to heaven there will still be only one Truth, unchanged by our opinions. I hope i haven't just babbled, that i've been of some help. if you are meant to know something about God, and you are responsive to God calling you to know whatever it is, you can be confident that you will see those facts, and that they'll be in the Bible. i believe we can know we have recieved forgiveness, and i also believe we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. i have to run for now. forgive me if i haven't said much to help.

 

[Diamonds2004]

You have been seeking God, but know that what you have been through it similar to my own experience.

I was a false convert for 13 years. I had gone to church since I was a little child and would even sense that God was listening when I was praying, but I just didn't have that inner assurance that I was saved. This is not assurance that a human has to continually work at to convince him/herself that he/she is not saved. This assurance is something that only the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can give. I finally was saved on December 12, 1999.

You probably remember where you were and what you were doing on September 11, 2001. That is how my experience of actually being saved was like. You may rememeber that date, time of day, and even what you were doing. Some people may not be able to pin down a specific date, but they know beyond all doubtthat they are saved by the blood of Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They know this fact as clearly as they know that gravity pulls things down to the ground and that they breath the air around them.

What you need to be worries about is if you are saved or not. Why should that concern you? It is because in this life we can afford to make mistakes, but when it comes to life after death. Concerning the next life, you can not afford to make mistakes becuase once your body hits the ground, it is Heaven or Hell for all of eternity. Eternity is not a day, week, month, or even year. It goes on forever, and ever, and ever, and ever, and ever; just like this sentence.

God will judge everyone by His Law, the Ten Commandments, because He is a impartial judge that will evaluate all people according to either them accepting or shunning the gift of eternal life in Jesus Christ and to what they have done.

Test yourself if you are a true or false convert:
True or False Conversion: Audio or High or Low Video Feed
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You can also download the audio here.

 

[anunbeliever]

To the OP - so you are struggling with touching yourself? There are many threads on this forum that would be helpful to you.

 

[Mayerpod]

It sounds like you need to find a church where the sermon pin points your beliefs ... where the message sparks the desire to rise up from your seat and shout, "EXACTLY!" Or maybe you just need to pour your entire heart into the bible and base your beliefs on the personal interpretations you find in God's word. I know many people have different theories on exactly who goes to heaven, what a sin is, etc.... but you have obviously established a relationship with God which is more important than any stranger's stance. You say, "I have a hard time letting go of God." Why let go of God? You are doing nothing wrong. You have repented of your sins before and you can do the same now. You shouldn't abandon God because you are insecure in your Christianity. Instead, explore the faith that lies within YOU.... Reflect on scripture you have studied and recall certain passages that moved you. Retrace the emotions that caused you to cry and sing passionately to God. Don't turn to the guy beside you with questions if you fear that he will lead you to uncertainty. That pessimism will only discourage you. Instead, turn to God. Ask God for answers.

There are bound to be inaccuracies and misinterpretations in the Christian religion because the bible is studied by MAN. MAN is not *always* correct in relaying the word... but GOD is ALWAYS correct... so my advice is to trust the Lord's word and the Holy Spirit because I believe there is more signifigance in those elements than anything else in this world.

 

[Evee]

Hi, Evee! Always a delight to see you!

CSMR is right (happy birthday!) --- Rom7 speaks of the "war, we try to do right but do the very wrong we don't wanna do". And Rom8 is the solution --- walking not by the flesh, but by the Spirit putting to death the deeds of the flesh.

BY THE SPIRIT. Not our power, but His power in and through us. That's really important. Don't be strong for Him, let Him be strong in you! Through Him, we are the righteousness of God! 2Cor5:21

Look at this one: "We walk by FAITH, and not by SIGHT" (2Cor5:7) --- faith in Him, in His plan and perfect direction!

God did what we, weak and imperfect, could not do. (Rm8:3) We walk in Him, by faith. Our faith is in Him!

Thanks Ben how have you been.... and thanks CSMR for helping me find that scripture.

 

[lowB]

To become a Christian requires God -trust in God but not in the Church, as the Church isnt infallable. The Church is helpful to find God though, hope you find an encouraging Church

 

[Rafael]

I appreciate what you guys wrote and I probably should just accept mainline Christianity and what it says about salvation and hope that God won't hold us accountable for our actions while here on earth. Please try not to take offense to what I am saying, I have been burned by mainline Christianity as well as "extreem veiw churches". I though have had a hard time accepting the follow general statements or beliefs from different "Christian" veiws; (my responses are not because of what I was taught by other men in the past but because of what I haved now learned from personal study and reflection of Gods word)

1. I don't beleive that salvation is a result of our desire to be saved or to be forgiven (ie like merely praying or asking God for forgiveness or salvation- to me that is still "doing something"- having Faith is even "doing something") From my studying I have understood that salvation is a result of our response to the gift that God offers to all who would come after his son. It also follows our obeidience to Christ' commands and is a result of our decision to do a 180* turn around (repentance from sin) made possible because of the conviction we recieve from the Holy Spirit and also to the accusation that I personally contributed to the crucifiction of the son of the living God (simply because of my horrible condition with slavery to sin.)
2. That we are not able to obtain righteousness or Holiness while in our flesh
I believe that Christ died to set me free from the reign of sin in my life and he has prepared a way for me to overcome the temptations of Satan that would otherwise cause me to trample the precious blood of Jesus under my feet. That once we move on from the elementary teachings of Christ that we become sanctified and are capable of living lives worthy of the calling we have recieved. Righteous and upright lives, not figurativly speaking but literally because of what God promises us; That he will never allow us to be tempted beyond what we can handle, that he will always provide a way out!
3. That scripture can be interpreted in many different ways but as long as we agree on A, B, and C then it is ok to disagree on the rest. I don't beleive that one particular group has or can indepently understand "the simple and true gospel message" and claim exlusive rights to the discovery of its meaning.

For what its worth.................

Your very honest. It takes a toll on all of us, the lies we were taught when we grew up, but there is good news. God gives us grace and unmerited favor to grow away from those things. If we "grow in grace" and "fight the good fight", God sees that and continually cleanses us from all unrighteousness. Our sins are washed away and we are pure by the blood of Jesus, and we are told to boldly walk before the throne and ask for more grace. He does not wnat us to remain in fear of Him, but as we become His children, we learn to love Him and then fear of punishment is cast out, as the scripture tells us.

God is near and ready to begin the walk of faith with you. He has an ample supple of grace and has said that where sin abounded, grace abounded much more. So begin the good fight of an overcomer. You will never become perfect until the day you stand before your Lord, and it will be said of you that you overcame by the blood of the lamb and the word of your testimony - that you fought the good fight of faith.

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Ro 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Gal. 5:17 The old sinful nature loves to do evil, which is just opposite from what the Holy Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are opposite from what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, and your choices are never free from this conflict. 18 But when you are directed by the Holy Spirit, you are no longer subject to the law.

Re 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.