May Russian Orthodox church split due to Crimea? (moved from main TAW forum)

[Thekla]

As I am a citizen of the US, and vote here, and given the persistently enunciated principles of this nation, I hold this country to higher standards and greater accountability.

 

[buzuxi02]

I don't know what any Ukranian politician said about killing 8 million Russians, nor do I condone it if it's true. Still doesn't make what I said about the Russian gov. Using Orthodoxy for political gain untrue. Do you really think Putin is religious? I look at Russia and I see Putin abusing the Church.


You've got to be kidding me right? RT makes Fox News look like kindergarten when it comes to "propaganda".

If the western free media is so free then why haven't you heard of Yulia's comments? What's amazing is how america is the new hitler and Germany is the new Stalin. They both claim to be on the same side but everyday we see how America undermines their ally Germany, from spying on them, to Nulands "FU EU" , to americas sanctions meant to weakened germany's economy as they are the biggest losers, week them and the western ukranians.. Oh and let's not forget the west's meddling in the ukranian orthodox church where they are attempting to splinter it by their sergianist style pressure.

 

[Tallguy88]

And who do you think is running ukraine? Afterall some of the finest Soviet leaders were ukranian. Didn't one of their politicians say she would like to kill 8 million russians? So now the ukraine has some incompetent uniate puppet whose bodyguards are all ametican elite mercenaries. Its good to be friends with crazed Mccain and the head of the CIA.

Funny how the russian state run media is more objective than our cnn's and fox's and, msnbc's. So much so that some american politicians want to shut down RT. The propaganda of the supposed free media of the west is so insane that most Westerners have figured it out finally, now their politicians are pooping in their pants.

Isn't the bolded word against the rules?

 

[buzuxi02]

Doubt it I've been using it for 10 years and is an official Orthodox ecclesiological term.

 

[Lukaris]

Until recently, I never even knew there was any controversy with this term. A few years back I spoke with a couple of Eastern Catholics visiting our church most cordially & used the term "uniate" in the sense that they were united with Rome; no one was offended (& I had no other perception of the term).

 

[Tallguy88]

Doubt it I've been using it for 10 years and is an official Orthodox ecclesiological term.

I know it against the rules at OC.net. Guess I just assumed it was here, too.

 

[Nik0s]

If the western free media is so free then why haven't you heard of Yulia's comments? What's amazing is how america is the new hitler and Germany is the new Stalin. They both claim to be on the same side but everyday we see how America undermines their ally Germany, from spying on them, to Nulands "FU EU" , to americas sanctions meant to weakened germany's economy as they are the biggest losers, week them and the western ukranians.. Oh and let's not forget the west's meddling in the ukranian orthodox church where they are attempting to splinter it by their sergianist style pressure.

It's out there, the Tymochenko quote, I just missed it. I can link you articles if you'd like. But you keep missing the point I'm trying to make. That Russia and Putin are not great defenders of Orthodoxy, Putin is using the Church for political purposes, as a form of nationalism. How can Putin claim to be a patron and defender of Orthodoxy and also have his hand picked mouth pieces on Russian state media "reminding" the world they can turn the US into radioactive ash? Completely unacceptable and un-Christian Soviet rhetoric. I don't see Western media threatening Russia with a nuclear holocaust. Im not trying to say " USA is perfect! Rah rah kill those Russkies!" I'm just saying that Russian state media is not to be trusted, and taken with a grain of salt, in some cases many grains.

 

[buzuxi02]

Ah ok that's different you simply don't trust Putin. I trust Putin more than any Western institution.

Also I do see the supposed free media along with the Anglo/ american/ EU alliance threatening Russia and using more than just rhetoric. I guess you haven't been listening to Mccains rhetoric who is a mouthpiece of the political establishment not just a media commentator.

Why do you think NATO exists??? The sole purpose of Nato's existence is for an ever expanding alliance of 27 nations than can come together for the destruction of Russia.

We were told the missiles planned for Poland a few years back were meant to defend against Iran. The last few months we find out that it was all a lie and the russians with there restricted biased media was right about their intent. But even if it was intended for Iran, why?? Why does Europe need a missile defense system ? ?? What are they afraid of? Why have they garnered so much hatred from the rest of the planet?

Why has the peace loving western world been smacking around smaller nations ever since the Soviet Union collapsed??? Why did we give the green light for the rebels in Syria to use chemical weapons then attempt to blame it on Assad. How about our meddling in Libya and Egypt and Iraq and Georgia and Kosovo. They West doesn't incinerate people? Well a few of those drones have incinerated entire wedding parties.

Since 1991 Russia never instigated anything against the EUSSR while the military complex of the west has been bullying everyone with impunity.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

The point being, the failure to uphold the law and the observation of democracy has opened the door to now exploiting the same method in the east.

And by supporting said lawlessness, the US has both lost any integrity on opposing such ruckus (anywhere) whilst enabling the ruckus in the east.

Neither the US nor Kiev have honor, nor democratic principles, on their side.

Kyiv didn't have a genuine democracy before Euromaidan.

And I can't believe anybody is so naive as to think Putin's Russia is some paragon of democratic principle.

 

[Nik0s]

Ah ok that's different you simply don't trust Putin. I trust Putin more than any Western institution.

That's your opinion then. I for one don't trust Putin farther than I can throw him.

Also I do see the supposed free media along with the Anglo/ american/ EU alliance threatening Russia and using more than just rhetoric. I guess you haven't been listening to Mccains rhetoric who is a mouthpiece of the political establishment not just a media commentator.

McCain is just one congressman, he doesn't have the power to do anything by himself. And I can promise you not even McCain wants to nuke Russia. Media on the other hand, especially state controlled media where there is no other source of information, has the power to influence millions. In the United States, you're free to air dissident opinions, unlike in Russia. Some people disagree with Obama's handling of the situation, and are free to voice their opposition. Do you think people are free in Russia to voice their oposition to Putin? If they tried, they would be thrown in jail or put under house arrest.

Why do you think NATO exists??? The sole purpose of Nato's existence is for an ever expanding alliance of 27 nations than can come together for the destruction of Russia.

Absolute nonsense. The reason why many former Soviet republics rushed to join NATO is for security purposes. They're afraid of Russia doing the exact same thing it's doing to Ukraine. After the fall of the Soviet Union, NATO's mission changed from containment of the SU to the defense of it's member nations. Again, NATO is not a perfect organization, just look at the Balkan wars in the 90s as an example, many atrocities were committed by NATO bombers. But to say NATO's existence is to destroy Russia is absurd. For one thing, Russia isn't as strong as Putin would like to have you think. It wouldn't need to NATO to "destroy" Russia.

We were told the missiles planned for Poland a few years back were meant to defend against Iran. The last few months we find out that it was all a lie and the russians with there restricted biased media was right about their intent. But even if it was intended for Iran, why?? Why does Europe need a missile defense system ? ?? What are they afraid of? Why have they garnered so much hatred from the rest of the planet?

I don't know where you're getting this from. Source?

Why has the peace loving western world been smacking around smaller nations ever since the Soviet Union collapsed??? Why did we give the green light for the rebels in Syria to use chemical weapons then attempt to blame it on Assad. How about our meddling in Libya and Egypt and Iraq and Georgia and Kosovo. They West doesn't incinerate people? Well a few of those drones have incinerated entire wedding parties.

First of all, it is still not 100% known who used the chemical weapons in Syria, and frankly the idea that the Rebels would chemically bombard themselves to garner sympathy is a little farfetched considering there really is no united "Rebel" opposition in Syria. Secondly, I believe the world is a better place without that maniac Gadaffi in control of Libya, and the Libyans do as well. From your rhetoric, it seems you would be happy if Russia were to nuke the US. Do you support that? Instead of rehashing the same laundry list of what the West has done wrong, answer me this. Is it right for Russia,and Putin a supposed defender of Orthodoxy, to threaten the USA with nuclear destruction? Do two wrongs make a right? Did not our Lord tell us to turn the other cheek? Whatever crimes the West has committed, our leaders will answer to them on the day of judgement, just as I will have to answer to my own transgressions. It is still my belief that Putin and his new Russia are a sham when it comes to promoting Orthodoxy, I still see Putin abusing the Church and using her for political gain. It pains me to see it, Lord, have mercy on us all.

 

[buzuxi02]

You cite your source of nuking america from a russian new outlet. Russia can nuke America just as America can nuke Russia. But Russia has yet to ever use nukes on anyone unlike our incineration of two Japanese Cities.

When America and her NATO allies decided to produce another "arab spring" of aggression on Syria, Putin masterfully stepped in and diffused the west's bloodfest. I will criticise Putin as soon as he starts bombing countries thousands of miles away, across great oceans where he has no spheres of influence. I have yet to see Putin proliferating countries with advanced weapons technologies to rebels and foreigners to cause bloody coups . Until then I will continue to admire Putin.

NATO is a demonic paper tiger. But its whole existence is to attack Russia, all for one and one for all. Although it has been used to smack around smaller nations as of recent. This is the same organization that incinerated the chinese embassy and their workers in belgrade. The sins of the west has reached heaven and it looks like the west does not want to go into the night quietly.

 

[buzuxi02]

Kyiv didn't have a genuine democracy before Euromaidan.

And I can't believe anybody is so naive as to think Putin's Russia is some paragon of democratic principle.

Ukraine is simply a mess, before ,during and after it will remain a mess for some time.

As far as Democratic principles, that is the problem. Democratic principles are the Paragon of evil. It is these democratic principles that have caused blood shed, and it is the western democratic values which are anti christian.

 

[Trying_to_be_Orthodox]

@GratiaCorpusHristi

There is no more any kind of kinda democracy in Ukraine since yesterday finally:
YouTube - pay attention to left-bottom-corner on first seconds.

and some photoes
Юлия - Смотрите все на зверства нелюдей ! Одесса ! 18 +

What is it? - its just warning to all who want to have different opinion from maidan.

and by the way, is this maidan first? and mr.yankovich is losing his presidency first time?

@Nikos

about western media-
just a little small example:
original words of mr. Yanukovich - I am still !president!. translation of western media - I am still !Boss!.

ps at Crotia, need your help - whats your opinion, woman on photo is pregnant or just fat? I had discussion today with my friend. His opinion - fat, my pregnant.
ps2 if this photo is not fake, so i am starting to feel something like real hate.

 

[New Legacy]

You dont know context or just trolling. Without supply of Usa, maidan was impossible. Need proves - can find it in engl, i think, only on some freaks sites. English officials resourses will never post this information.



Ukraine is being punished for no longer being a puppet. - yeah, explain it to relatives of people, which were fried alive by Right Sector&Co yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3BEpOT6_nOU (firing up)

Одесса Дом профсоюзов Внутри Сепаратисты погибшие в пожаре 02 мая 2014 года Трансляция - YouTube (result)

Juhnta gave order to use army against civilians, even Yanukovich didnt do same. Complete losers and idiots. And juhntas very big mistake is using fasicts radicals "Right sector" and installing oligarhs to rule directly on east regions who can pay to radicals.

You live in Russia, right? Where TV was taken over by the government?

Putin is a fascist who wants to continue to control foreign states in addition to being Tsar of Russia. According to the United Nations, Russia is a fascist state. The last democratic index was under 4.0, meaning authoritarian. This is not the cold war where Russia gets to dominate and send in troops to their puppet states.

What is funny is that Ukraine is turning towards the democratic west. One of the last puppet nations of Russia is about to join the ranks of the free people of NATO and he just cannot have that. So Putin calls them fascist and invades another nation, like a fascist.

 

[New Legacy]

Here is news from FREE western sources. More to follow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnpXASPd1h4
Great video, showing the Russian invaders pretending to be what they are not.

 

[Lukaris]

Here is news from FREE western sources. More to follow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnpXASPd1h4
Great video, showing the Russian invaders pretending to be what they are not.[/QUOT


I have seen a couple clips from your "vice" news & all I have seen are angry locals & isolated armed police authorities in standoffs. I saw the "invasion" of an air base by a crowd of locals some of whom were drunk (see dipatch # 27 "invasion of Ukraine" series on youtube).

Oh, & by the way, I found out "vice" was instrumental in promoting junkie Dennis Rodmn's visit with the murderers of N. Korea. "Vice" also filmed a comical & circus like travel guide to N.Korea minus any evidence of strarvation & labor camps; that must be a hoot.

 

[Trying_to_be_Orthodox]

@Gratia and All
just version about massacre in Odessa, partly in engl:
ersieesist: How the thugs killed Odessa inhabitants in the Trade Unions House - the details of bloody scenario

then you can compare how west media describe this situation, if they take your attention to it.

ps kinda Serbia 2.0 is starting.

 

[Thekla]

Kyiv didn't have a genuine democracy before Euromaidan.

And I can't believe anybody is so naive as to think Putin's Russia is some paragon of democratic principle.

Given these points, it is all the more important that the US and EU stand for honoring democratic principles and process. Having failed to take a principled stand and actually encouraging Kiev in developing towards a real democracy, the US has made the transition to a democracy more difficult and "blessed" and de facto encouraged what is happening the east.

Why not offer something other than "Putin's" path, a truly viable and honorable alternative; isn't this what the US should be doing ?

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Given these points, it is all the more important that the US and EU stand for honoring democratic principles and process. Having failed to take a principled stand and actually encouraging Kiev in developing towards a real democracy, the US has made the transition to a democracy more difficult and "blessed" and de facto encouraged what is happening the east.

Why not offer something other than "Putin's" path, a truly viable and honorable alternative; isn't this what the US should be doing ?

I have just about zero interest in defending the official American response to Ukraine, just as I have no regard for the administration's response to Syria.

My trouble is that people think that a democratic process could have prevailed in addressing the injustices perpetrated by the Yanukovych regime. We're talking about a man who had jailed his opponents, suspended freedom of assembly, shut down access to the capital city, and possibly got himself into power through voter fraud. There comes a point when democratic processes cannot be the vehicle for change because there are no truly democratic processes to be had. It was true in the American colonies in 1774, it was true in Czechoslovakia in 1968, it was true in Egypt three years ago, and its true in Ukraine now.

I simply don't understand people who preference process over principle.

 

[Thekla]

I have just about zero interest in defending the official American response to Ukraine, just as I have no regard for the administration's response to Syria.

My trouble is that people think that a democratic process could have prevailed in addressing the injustices perpetrated by the Yanukovych regime. We're talking about a man who had jailed his opponents, suspended freedom of assembly, shut down access to the capital city, and possibly got himself into power through voter fraud. There comes a point when democratic processes cannot be the vehicle for change because there are no truly democratic processes to be had. It was true in the American colonies in 1774, it was true in Czechoslovakia in 1968, it was true in Egypt three years ago, and its true in Ukraine now.

I simply don't understand people who preference process over principle.

In this case, and numerous others, we have precisely ejected our principles in the process we support; ie the whole involvement is debased and results in further degradation.

This is the problem - we encourage and contribute to the problem.

And as I said would happen, we have not only undermined Ukraine's future, we have pushed China and Russia closer. Our actions were more than neocon naivete, but seem truly either not at all considered/thought through or much worse; we have fomented a crisis that is taking on global proportions.

Instead of treating Ukraine as a possible 'meeting ground', adhering to democratic process in promoting democratic principles thus allowing a real democracy to develop over time, we've played the quick self-interest card to the detriment of the people of Ukraine and globally.

Thus, Ukraine will seek deeper into financial crisis (instead of having financial support from the west and continuing to receive discounted energy with more patience for the persistently late payments).

Not a few well placed and knowledgeable former govt. advisers, etc. (Jack F. Matlock, fmr ambassador to USSR, Henry Kissinger, Paul Craig Roberts for ex.) from the Cold War era have been deeply critical of our actions in Ukraine. It seems the US has no strategy, no fore thought, no plan; just the now persistent delusion that if we are involved, everyone will cheer us as we march in to "free them" from themselves (Iraq, etc.).

This is no way to interact with the world, and it's been the basic template for all my adult life. And the template has always included a media shy of investigation and critical analysis, and eager to engage in "preparatory" demonization ... then, and still now.